http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/ Sat, 19 May 2012 04:51:37 -0500 MyBB http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7880 Wed, 14 Sep 2011 20:17:55 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7880
“Questions From Readers

What three dangers was Jesus warning against at Matthew 5:22?

In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ warned his followers: “I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.”—Matthew 5:22.

Jesus used things familiar to the Jews—the court of justice, the Supreme Court, and the fiery Gehenna—to convey to them the increasing severity of the punishments for sins of increasing seriousness.

First, Jesus said that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to “the court of justice,” the local court. According to tradition, these courts were set up in cities with an adult male population of 120 or more. (Matthew 10:17; Mark 13:9) The judges at such a court had authority to render judgment, even on murder cases. (Deuteronomy 16:18; 19:12; 21:1, 2) Thus, Jesus was showing that a person who harbors smoldering wrath against his brother is committing a serious sin.

Jesus next said that a person who “addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court.” The Greek word rha·ka′ (footnote) rendered “an unspeakable word of contempt” means “empty” or “empty-headed.” According to The New Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, that word was “a term of reproach used by the Jews in the time of Christ.” Jesus was thus warning against the seriousness of expressing hatred toward a countryman with a derogatory term of contempt. Jesus was as much as saying that a person using such a word would be judged not just by a local court but by the Supreme Court, the full Sanhedrin—the judicial body in Jerusalem made up of the high priest and 70 older men and scribes.—Mark 15:1.

Finally, Jesus explained that if a person addresses another, “You despicable fool!” he would be liable to the fiery Gehenna. The word “Gehenna” comes from the Hebrew words geh hin·nom′, meaning “valley of Hinnom,” which lay to the west and south of ancient Jerusalem. In Jesus’ day, the valley had become a place for burning refuse, including the bodies of vile criminals who were considered undeserving of a decent burial. So the word “Gehenna” was a fitting symbol of complete destruction.

What, then, did the expression “despicable fool” signify? The word used here sounded similar to a Hebrew term that means “rebellious,” or “mutinous.” It designates a person as morally worthless, an apostate and a rebel against God. So the person addressing his fellow as a “despicable fool” is as much as saying that his brother should receive a punishment fit for a rebel against God, everlasting destruction. From God’s standpoint, the one uttering such a condemnation against another could merit that severe sentence—everlasting destruction—himself.—Deuteronomy 19:17-19.

Consequently, Jesus was setting a higher standard for his followers than that found in the principles behind the Mosaic Law. While people believed that a murderer would be “accountable to the court of justice,” Jesus went further. He taught that his followers should avoid even harboring animosity against their brothers.—Matthew 5:21, 22.”

Watchtower 1979 11/1

“In his widely known Sermon on the Mount, the Leader of Jehovah’s Witnesses, namely, Jesus Christ, said, among other things: “Happy are the peaceable, since they will be called ‘sons of God.’ . . . You heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not murder; but whoever commits a murder will be accountable to the court of justice.’ However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” Gehenna figuratively pictured eternal destruction, for Jesus later said to his disciples: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” (Matt. 5:9, 21, 22; 10:28) Consequently, the witnesses of Jehovah have always sought to be peaceable in a mixed-up world and have always avoided murderous tendencies even in wrathfulness and violent speech.”

Watchtower 1978 4/15

“Jesus then went a step farther, saying: “Whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” (Matt. 5:22c) The Greek word rendered “you despicable fool” is mōré. A similar-sounding Hebrew term (moreh) means “rebellious,” “mutinous.” Whereas raca suggests intellectual stupidity, mōré designates one as morally worthless, an apostate and rebel against God. In his Hebrew and Talmudical Exercitations, John Lightfoot points out: “‘Raca’ denotes indeed ‘morosity, and lightness of manners and life:’ but ‘fool’ judgeth bitterly of the spiritual and eternal state, and decreeth a man to certain destruction.”

Persons who would denounce their fellow in such a way would be “liable to the fiery Gehenna.” Here Jesus refers to the Valley of Hinnom (Hebrew, Gei Hinnom) near Jerusalem, which became a garbage dump where fires continually burned to consume refuse and carcasses that were thrown into it. According to the Greek Lexicon by Liddell and Scott, in that valley “the corpses of the worst malefactors were burnt.” If the fires of Gehenna did not wholly consume those carcasses, worms and maggots that bred there would finish the job.—Isa. 66:24; Mark 9:47, 48.

Jesus used Gehenna as a fitting symbol of eternal destruction. Since a person who would condemn his fellow as a “despicable fool” worthy of Gehenna would be desiring everlasting destruction for that one, from God’s standpoint the one uttering such a condemnation brings that severe sentence upon himself.—Compare Deuteronomy 19:17-19.”

Watchtower 1976 12/1

“Jesus Christ made it clear that wrong use of the tongue could bring such a serious consequence. He said: “Whoever says [to his brother], ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” (Matt. 5:22) Yes, one who wrongly judges and condemns his brother as a “despicable fool,” that is, a morally worthless person, would rightly be liable to the judgment of Gehenna. Why? Because by thus condemning his brother, he would be pronouncing that one as deserving the judgment of Gehenna. In his heart, he would be desiring such a terrible judgment for his brother. Thereby he himself would become liable to the adverse judgment he wished for his brother. This possible penalty would harmonize with the stipulation of the Mosaic law requiring that a false witness receive the very same punishment that the accused would have received had he been found guilty.—Deut. 19:17-21.”

Watchtower 1954 6/15

Words are dangerous tools. And Jesus warned his disciples to be careful as to the use of them: “Whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” He further added that “the good man out of his good treasure sends out good things, whereas the wicked man out of his wicked treasure sends out wicked things. I tell you that every unprofitable saying that men speak, they will render an account concerning it on Judgment Day; for by your words you will be vindicated, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Matt. 5:22; 12:35-37, NW) A Christian who is well mannered will not call his brother a fool, or stupid, or other uncomplimentary names.

I hope they will consider the above comments they made on this subject in the past. Calling someone an “apostate”, “empty well” or “mentally diseased” among other things as they did in the 2011 9/11 Watchtower Study is the same as calling them a “despicable fool”. They clearly established that in their above comments. Even if it were true Jesus made no allowance for such judgmental harsh words. I fear for our brothers at the Watchtower and those who follow their conduct in this. I pray Jesus will not throw them literally into “Gehenna”. Let us all pray that our brothers at the Watchtower see how wrong they are and have been for years beating their brothers as they seem to believe our master is delaying. They are bitter because God has not made the words of these "servants" come true. Isaiah 44:26, "the One making the word of his servant come true, and the One that carries out completely the counsel of his own messengers."

Your brother in Christ,
Greybeard]]>
“Questions From Readers

What three dangers was Jesus warning against at Matthew 5:22?

In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ warned his followers: “I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.”—Matthew 5:22.

Jesus used things familiar to the Jews—the court of justice, the Supreme Court, and the fiery Gehenna—to convey to them the increasing severity of the punishments for sins of increasing seriousness.

First, Jesus said that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to “the court of justice,” the local court. According to tradition, these courts were set up in cities with an adult male population of 120 or more. (Matthew 10:17; Mark 13:9) The judges at such a court had authority to render judgment, even on murder cases. (Deuteronomy 16:18; 19:12; 21:1, 2) Thus, Jesus was showing that a person who harbors smoldering wrath against his brother is committing a serious sin.

Jesus next said that a person who “addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court.” The Greek word rha·ka′ (footnote) rendered “an unspeakable word of contempt” means “empty” or “empty-headed.” According to The New Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, that word was “a term of reproach used by the Jews in the time of Christ.” Jesus was thus warning against the seriousness of expressing hatred toward a countryman with a derogatory term of contempt. Jesus was as much as saying that a person using such a word would be judged not just by a local court but by the Supreme Court, the full Sanhedrin—the judicial body in Jerusalem made up of the high priest and 70 older men and scribes.—Mark 15:1.

Finally, Jesus explained that if a person addresses another, “You despicable fool!” he would be liable to the fiery Gehenna. The word “Gehenna” comes from the Hebrew words geh hin·nom′, meaning “valley of Hinnom,” which lay to the west and south of ancient Jerusalem. In Jesus’ day, the valley had become a place for burning refuse, including the bodies of vile criminals who were considered undeserving of a decent burial. So the word “Gehenna” was a fitting symbol of complete destruction.

What, then, did the expression “despicable fool” signify? The word used here sounded similar to a Hebrew term that means “rebellious,” or “mutinous.” It designates a person as morally worthless, an apostate and a rebel against God. So the person addressing his fellow as a “despicable fool” is as much as saying that his brother should receive a punishment fit for a rebel against God, everlasting destruction. From God’s standpoint, the one uttering such a condemnation against another could merit that severe sentence—everlasting destruction—himself.—Deuteronomy 19:17-19.

Consequently, Jesus was setting a higher standard for his followers than that found in the principles behind the Mosaic Law. While people believed that a murderer would be “accountable to the court of justice,” Jesus went further. He taught that his followers should avoid even harboring animosity against their brothers.—Matthew 5:21, 22.”

Watchtower 1979 11/1

“In his widely known Sermon on the Mount, the Leader of Jehovah’s Witnesses, namely, Jesus Christ, said, among other things: “Happy are the peaceable, since they will be called ‘sons of God.’ . . . You heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not murder; but whoever commits a murder will be accountable to the court of justice.’ However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” Gehenna figuratively pictured eternal destruction, for Jesus later said to his disciples: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” (Matt. 5:9, 21, 22; 10:28) Consequently, the witnesses of Jehovah have always sought to be peaceable in a mixed-up world and have always avoided murderous tendencies even in wrathfulness and violent speech.”

Watchtower 1978 4/15

“Jesus then went a step farther, saying: “Whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” (Matt. 5:22c) The Greek word rendered “you despicable fool” is mōré. A similar-sounding Hebrew term (moreh) means “rebellious,” “mutinous.” Whereas raca suggests intellectual stupidity, mōré designates one as morally worthless, an apostate and rebel against God. In his Hebrew and Talmudical Exercitations, John Lightfoot points out: “‘Raca’ denotes indeed ‘morosity, and lightness of manners and life:’ but ‘fool’ judgeth bitterly of the spiritual and eternal state, and decreeth a man to certain destruction.”

Persons who would denounce their fellow in such a way would be “liable to the fiery Gehenna.” Here Jesus refers to the Valley of Hinnom (Hebrew, Gei Hinnom) near Jerusalem, which became a garbage dump where fires continually burned to consume refuse and carcasses that were thrown into it. According to the Greek Lexicon by Liddell and Scott, in that valley “the corpses of the worst malefactors were burnt.” If the fires of Gehenna did not wholly consume those carcasses, worms and maggots that bred there would finish the job.—Isa. 66:24; Mark 9:47, 48.

Jesus used Gehenna as a fitting symbol of eternal destruction. Since a person who would condemn his fellow as a “despicable fool” worthy of Gehenna would be desiring everlasting destruction for that one, from God’s standpoint the one uttering such a condemnation brings that severe sentence upon himself.—Compare Deuteronomy 19:17-19.”

Watchtower 1976 12/1

“Jesus Christ made it clear that wrong use of the tongue could bring such a serious consequence. He said: “Whoever says [to his brother], ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” (Matt. 5:22) Yes, one who wrongly judges and condemns his brother as a “despicable fool,” that is, a morally worthless person, would rightly be liable to the judgment of Gehenna. Why? Because by thus condemning his brother, he would be pronouncing that one as deserving the judgment of Gehenna. In his heart, he would be desiring such a terrible judgment for his brother. Thereby he himself would become liable to the adverse judgment he wished for his brother. This possible penalty would harmonize with the stipulation of the Mosaic law requiring that a false witness receive the very same punishment that the accused would have received had he been found guilty.—Deut. 19:17-21.”

Watchtower 1954 6/15

Words are dangerous tools. And Jesus warned his disciples to be careful as to the use of them: “Whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” He further added that “the good man out of his good treasure sends out good things, whereas the wicked man out of his wicked treasure sends out wicked things. I tell you that every unprofitable saying that men speak, they will render an account concerning it on Judgment Day; for by your words you will be vindicated, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Matt. 5:22; 12:35-37, NW) A Christian who is well mannered will not call his brother a fool, or stupid, or other uncomplimentary names.

I hope they will consider the above comments they made on this subject in the past. Calling someone an “apostate”, “empty well” or “mentally diseased” among other things as they did in the 2011 9/11 Watchtower Study is the same as calling them a “despicable fool”. They clearly established that in their above comments. Even if it were true Jesus made no allowance for such judgmental harsh words. I fear for our brothers at the Watchtower and those who follow their conduct in this. I pray Jesus will not throw them literally into “Gehenna”. Let us all pray that our brothers at the Watchtower see how wrong they are and have been for years beating their brothers as they seem to believe our master is delaying. They are bitter because God has not made the words of these "servants" come true. Isaiah 44:26, "the One making the word of his servant come true, and the One that carries out completely the counsel of his own messengers."

Your brother in Christ,
Greybeard]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7879 Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:21:05 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7879
http://www.jwstruggle.com/2011/09/blinded-by-new-light/]]>
http://www.jwstruggle.com/2011/09/blinded-by-new-light/]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7878 Tue, 06 Sep 2011 09:57:53 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7878 To many, the thought of choosing by lot (possibly by rolling dice) or using some other form of lottery sounds immoral. However, in the Bible, that was the correct way to select the person who would receive a particular position or reward. In fact, the word for inherit (kleronomesousi), means to receive by lot or lottery.

The reason why this method was used by the ancient faithful was to allow God a hand in the decision, rather than trusting in the viewpoints of men. And the indication is that this method of choosing did in fact result in the manifestation of God's hand. For example, consider how John the Baptist's father (ZechariAh) was chosen by lot to serve in the Holy Place at the exact time for him to be told by a messenger of God about the upcoming birth of his son and of his son's responsibility concerning the Messiah (Luke 1:8, 9).

Also, consider the fact that Matthias was chosen by lottery to replace unfaithful Judas as one of the Twelve Apostles of the Lamb.

The good sense of letting things be decided by apparent chance can be found in the wise words of Solomon at Proverbs 18:18, where he said, 'Choosing by lottery ends a dispute, and it defines the boundaries of rulers.']]> To many, the thought of choosing by lot (possibly by rolling dice) or using some other form of lottery sounds immoral. However, in the Bible, that was the correct way to select the person who would receive a particular position or reward. In fact, the word for inherit (kleronomesousi), means to receive by lot or lottery.

The reason why this method was used by the ancient faithful was to allow God a hand in the decision, rather than trusting in the viewpoints of men. And the indication is that this method of choosing did in fact result in the manifestation of God's hand. For example, consider how John the Baptist's father (ZechariAh) was chosen by lot to serve in the Holy Place at the exact time for him to be told by a messenger of God about the upcoming birth of his son and of his son's responsibility concerning the Messiah (Luke 1:8, 9).

Also, consider the fact that Matthias was chosen by lottery to replace unfaithful Judas as one of the Twelve Apostles of the Lamb.

The good sense of letting things be decided by apparent chance can be found in the wise words of Solomon at Proverbs 18:18, where he said, 'Choosing by lottery ends a dispute, and it defines the boundaries of rulers.']]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7877 Tue, 06 Sep 2011 08:40:59 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7877
What Egyptian hieroglyphics tell us, is that a people known as the Hyksos (from the land of Canaan) invaded Egypt during the period when the Hebrews were living there, and that they dominated Egypt for about ninety years. Then, sometime around 1550-B.C.E., PharaOh Kamose conquered them.

Now, if such people (the Hyksos) did in fact conquer Egypt, we would expect to read about them in the detailed Bible accounts in Exodus, for that was also the same period during which the Israelites were living there… and we don't. However, if you consider what happened through the eyes and propaganda of the Egyptians, you can see that the Hyksos were unquestionably the IsraElites. After all, they lived in the land during that period, and according to the Bible, Joseph did become the effective ruler of all Egypt. But thereafter, the Egyptians became frightened of them, for we read at Exodus 1:9, 10, 'Look! The children of IsraEl have [grown tremendously] and they are now more powerful than we are! So, let's be smooth in the way we deal with them, because, if they continue to grow and then we find ourselves at war, they could side with our enemies. And after they beat us in war, they will leave our land.'

So, you can see how (with a little governmental propaganda to justify their actions against the Hebrews and a total defeat in war) the story that the Egyptians tell, is about their being dominated by the Hyksos, and how they fought a war to liberate themselves. Yet, the Egyptian history of where these people came from, what part of Egypt they lived in, and many more details, prove that the Hyksos (shepherds – see Genesis 46:29 - 47:4) were the IsraElites. Also, the Jewish historian Josephus identified them as the Jews.

Then, why do archeologists claim that the Hyksos weren't the Israelites? Because, such a conclusion would take this Bible story (and its chronology) from the realm of myth or a minor event, and elevate it to something major that is well documented in history. And so, archeologists prefer to accept the Egyptian description of what happened. For more information, please see the link, 'Egypt: Tempest & Exodus: The Biblical Exodus Inscribed on an Ancient Egyptian Stele'.

Kamose is said to have died in 1550-B.C.E., which places his reign almost forty years prior to what others have concluded to be the earliest possible Exodus date. So, most preclude him as a possible candidate. However, he is the king that is credited with driving the Hyksos out of Egypt, and I suspect that Kamose was the king with whom Moses dealt in the exodus, because he died early and mysteriously, as did his first-born son (in the last plague upon Egypt). Certainly, the history of the kings (PharaOhs) that preceded him don't present nearly as convincing an argument, nor do the dates line up as well with Bible chronology. Also, his mummy is in a poorly-preserved state (because of water damage?), and it was interred without a pyramid or a sarcophagus (hastily).

There are several ifs whereby Bible chronology can be more closely aligned with the dates for the reign of Kamose as provided by Egyptologists. They are:
· If the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon did in fact occur in 607-B.C.E. as some claim
· If we can trust the prophetic dating in Ezekiel of the existence of the unfaithful Kingdom of Israel from its inception to the destruction of Jerusalem as being 390 years
· If we can accept 38 years as being the period between the death of Solomon and the laying of the Temple foundation
· If we can accept the Hebrew text's description of the period between the laying of the Temple foundation and the Exodus as being 480 years
· If that 480 years started from Israel's entry into the Promised Land, not their exodus from Egypt.
607+390=997 997+38=1035 1035+480=1515 1515+40=1555 (B.C.E.)

So, could these figures be wrong? Yes, but not by much. Consider, for example, the fact that radiocarbon dating for the destruction of Jericho (the time of the entry of IsraEl into the Promised Land) shows that it could have happened sometime between 1590 or 1527 B.C.E. ( or +/- 110 B.C.E., depending on how one reads the calibration curve); see the article, Carbon 14 Dating at Jericho. Therefore, 1527+40 years (wandering in the desert) = 1567-B.C.E., date of the Exodus.

However, if Solomon received some of his gold for the Temple from PharaOh Amenemnisu of the 21st Dynasty of ancient Egypt (see the link, Parvaim or PharaOh Aim?) and if we can trust Egyptian archaeological dating, then Solomon built the Temple somewhere between 1051 and 1047 B.C.E. And that sets the exodus as happening between 1527 and 1531-B.C.E., without the need of some of the above assumptions. And I'm sure that even Egyptologists would be delighted to know that their dates could be off by just twenty to twenty-five years.

It's important to recognize that the popular dating of reigns by Egyptologists is often (by their own admission), in question. Also other kings would have to be considered as being the one of the Exodus if any of the above suggested conclusions prove untrue. Ahmose I is a strong contender. His reign is said to be from 1570–1546, or 1560–1537, or 1551–1527 by various sources. Then, following him there were: Amenhotep I (whose reign is said to be from 1546-1526, or 1526-1506, or 1525-1504) and and Thutmose I (who is usually given a reign from 1506-1493 or 1526-1513). See the link Pharaohs Timeline.

By the way, just a little side point: The Egyptians never really called their kings PharaOhs, they just called them kings. Use of the term PharaOh as a title for their kings actually comes from ancient Hebrew and Greek writings. However, it is in fact an Egyptian term, meaning Great House (Phara Oh). And foreign peoples likely started using the title to refer to Egyptian kings, because they received salutations from The Great House (think White House), which they thought of as coming from the kings of Egypt.]]>
What Egyptian hieroglyphics tell us, is that a people known as the Hyksos (from the land of Canaan) invaded Egypt during the period when the Hebrews were living there, and that they dominated Egypt for about ninety years. Then, sometime around 1550-B.C.E., PharaOh Kamose conquered them.

Now, if such people (the Hyksos) did in fact conquer Egypt, we would expect to read about them in the detailed Bible accounts in Exodus, for that was also the same period during which the Israelites were living there… and we don't. However, if you consider what happened through the eyes and propaganda of the Egyptians, you can see that the Hyksos were unquestionably the IsraElites. After all, they lived in the land during that period, and according to the Bible, Joseph did become the effective ruler of all Egypt. But thereafter, the Egyptians became frightened of them, for we read at Exodus 1:9, 10, 'Look! The children of IsraEl have [grown tremendously] and they are now more powerful than we are! So, let's be smooth in the way we deal with them, because, if they continue to grow and then we find ourselves at war, they could side with our enemies. And after they beat us in war, they will leave our land.'

So, you can see how (with a little governmental propaganda to justify their actions against the Hebrews and a total defeat in war) the story that the Egyptians tell, is about their being dominated by the Hyksos, and how they fought a war to liberate themselves. Yet, the Egyptian history of where these people came from, what part of Egypt they lived in, and many more details, prove that the Hyksos (shepherds – see Genesis 46:29 - 47:4) were the IsraElites. Also, the Jewish historian Josephus identified them as the Jews.

Then, why do archeologists claim that the Hyksos weren't the Israelites? Because, such a conclusion would take this Bible story (and its chronology) from the realm of myth or a minor event, and elevate it to something major that is well documented in history. And so, archeologists prefer to accept the Egyptian description of what happened. For more information, please see the link, 'Egypt: Tempest & Exodus: The Biblical Exodus Inscribed on an Ancient Egyptian Stele'.

Kamose is said to have died in 1550-B.C.E., which places his reign almost forty years prior to what others have concluded to be the earliest possible Exodus date. So, most preclude him as a possible candidate. However, he is the king that is credited with driving the Hyksos out of Egypt, and I suspect that Kamose was the king with whom Moses dealt in the exodus, because he died early and mysteriously, as did his first-born son (in the last plague upon Egypt). Certainly, the history of the kings (PharaOhs) that preceded him don't present nearly as convincing an argument, nor do the dates line up as well with Bible chronology. Also, his mummy is in a poorly-preserved state (because of water damage?), and it was interred without a pyramid or a sarcophagus (hastily).

There are several ifs whereby Bible chronology can be more closely aligned with the dates for the reign of Kamose as provided by Egyptologists. They are:
· If the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon did in fact occur in 607-B.C.E. as some claim
· If we can trust the prophetic dating in Ezekiel of the existence of the unfaithful Kingdom of Israel from its inception to the destruction of Jerusalem as being 390 years
· If we can accept 38 years as being the period between the death of Solomon and the laying of the Temple foundation
· If we can accept the Hebrew text's description of the period between the laying of the Temple foundation and the Exodus as being 480 years
· If that 480 years started from Israel's entry into the Promised Land, not their exodus from Egypt.
607+390=997 997+38=1035 1035+480=1515 1515+40=1555 (B.C.E.)

So, could these figures be wrong? Yes, but not by much. Consider, for example, the fact that radiocarbon dating for the destruction of Jericho (the time of the entry of IsraEl into the Promised Land) shows that it could have happened sometime between 1590 or 1527 B.C.E. ( or +/- 110 B.C.E., depending on how one reads the calibration curve); see the article, Carbon 14 Dating at Jericho. Therefore, 1527+40 years (wandering in the desert) = 1567-B.C.E., date of the Exodus.

However, if Solomon received some of his gold for the Temple from PharaOh Amenemnisu of the 21st Dynasty of ancient Egypt (see the link, Parvaim or PharaOh Aim?) and if we can trust Egyptian archaeological dating, then Solomon built the Temple somewhere between 1051 and 1047 B.C.E. And that sets the exodus as happening between 1527 and 1531-B.C.E., without the need of some of the above assumptions. And I'm sure that even Egyptologists would be delighted to know that their dates could be off by just twenty to twenty-five years.

It's important to recognize that the popular dating of reigns by Egyptologists is often (by their own admission), in question. Also other kings would have to be considered as being the one of the Exodus if any of the above suggested conclusions prove untrue. Ahmose I is a strong contender. His reign is said to be from 1570–1546, or 1560–1537, or 1551–1527 by various sources. Then, following him there were: Amenhotep I (whose reign is said to be from 1546-1526, or 1526-1506, or 1525-1504) and and Thutmose I (who is usually given a reign from 1506-1493 or 1526-1513). See the link Pharaohs Timeline.

By the way, just a little side point: The Egyptians never really called their kings PharaOhs, they just called them kings. Use of the term PharaOh as a title for their kings actually comes from ancient Hebrew and Greek writings. However, it is in fact an Egyptian term, meaning Great House (Phara Oh). And foreign peoples likely started using the title to refer to Egyptian kings, because they received salutations from The Great House (think White House), which they thought of as coming from the kings of Egypt.]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7876 Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:58:04 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7876
What more needs to be said?]]>
What more needs to be said?]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7875 Thu, 25 Aug 2011 23:37:36 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7875
Matters of a most urgent and grave nature have torn me from the home I love. From those dear humans whose cherished society I commenced missing within moments of my sighting of Charon. The inevitable arrived sooner than I might have ever imagined. Robust health, love of life, piety toward God ... these three provide no defense against destiny nor release from the dismal glide over Acheron.

Yet, in a most unexpected and singular fashion, I sense that I have become a man to the utmost degree. The irrational fears that plagued my entire, pitiful life have evaporated, releasing my heart and soul from nothing less than an iron, viselike grip. It is true that I am scarcely at liberty to refuse Fate's request to accompany her to my newest, and perhaps not so dreaded, domicile. I am, however, free to accept joyfully - as a man possessing the courage of his forebears - that I shall reside for eternity on the Isle of the Dead.

Row, Charon, row. Lead me unto my long-awaited estate ...]]>
Matters of a most urgent and grave nature have torn me from the home I love. From those dear humans whose cherished society I commenced missing within moments of my sighting of Charon. The inevitable arrived sooner than I might have ever imagined. Robust health, love of life, piety toward God ... these three provide no defense against destiny nor release from the dismal glide over Acheron.

Yet, in a most unexpected and singular fashion, I sense that I have become a man to the utmost degree. The irrational fears that plagued my entire, pitiful life have evaporated, releasing my heart and soul from nothing less than an iron, viselike grip. It is true that I am scarcely at liberty to refuse Fate's request to accompany her to my newest, and perhaps not so dreaded, domicile. I am, however, free to accept joyfully - as a man possessing the courage of his forebears - that I shall reside for eternity on the Isle of the Dead.

Row, Charon, row. Lead me unto my long-awaited estate ...]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7874 Thu, 25 Aug 2011 01:41:16 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7874
Japan Declares Nuclear Crisis at Level of Chernobyl
Apr 11, 2011 – 11:58 PM
>>>>>>>>>

This was raidiation fallout that took place in
Chernobyl, Russia, 1986
Most of the births after that were considered freaks,
Being in Russia we didn't hear too much about it.
>>>>>>>>>>
My personal opinion is
Yes, we are in the Great tribulation .I still feel that
it all started with Fanny & Freddie in 2008/

I also feel that coming up, will be Jehovah cutting this short soon.
Matthew 24:22 (American Standard Version)

22 And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

>>>>>>>>>

What better way to cut the Great tribulation short then with a peace treaty

.Daniel 9:27



27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven,[a] but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds,[B] he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration,[c] until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.”

>>>>>>>

I also feel that this particular scripture has a dual fulfillment . I am not alone in this thought. .

Yes it had a fulfillment with the 70 weeks of years,

when sacrifices ceased with Jesus death, but since then Jah is dealing with spiritual Israel.

So on a spiritual level, the middle of the week starts the 3.5 years of the Dragons ( all authority rule ) here on earth.

The remaining Bride,( or two witnesses), will have already started their 3.5 mission as the Ambassadors of Christ.Declaring the Kingdom being set up, ( in the heavens ) and their message of doom. Rev 13: Rev 11:

The putting a stop to all sacrifices in spiritual Israel would be the fruitage's of the lips. I feel it will be then in the middle of the week ( when the peace treaty will be broken ) that's when the tribulation starts
on the true followers of Christ that haven't taken the mark
of the beast .
The Dragon trying to put a stop to the growth of the great crowd that started to gather ,from listening to the remaining bride.

John 17:17-20 (American Standard Version)

17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou didst send me into the world, even so sent I them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

20 Neither for these only do I pray, but for them

also that believe on me through their word;

>>>>>>>>>>


I am not predicting anything.

Seems to me ,we may be nearing the time

for the fulfillment of these scriptures.( or is it based on my hope !)

Nevertheless, near or far off, God cannot lie.

Have to wait and see.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jehovah and one is a large army]]>
Japan Declares Nuclear Crisis at Level of Chernobyl
Apr 11, 2011 – 11:58 PM
>>>>>>>>>

This was raidiation fallout that took place in
Chernobyl, Russia, 1986
Most of the births after that were considered freaks,
Being in Russia we didn't hear too much about it.
>>>>>>>>>>
My personal opinion is
Yes, we are in the Great tribulation .I still feel that
it all started with Fanny & Freddie in 2008/

I also feel that coming up, will be Jehovah cutting this short soon.
Matthew 24:22 (American Standard Version)

22 And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

>>>>>>>>>

What better way to cut the Great tribulation short then with a peace treaty

.Daniel 9:27



27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven,[a] but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds,[B] he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration,[c] until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.”

>>>>>>>

I also feel that this particular scripture has a dual fulfillment . I am not alone in this thought. .

Yes it had a fulfillment with the 70 weeks of years,

when sacrifices ceased with Jesus death, but since then Jah is dealing with spiritual Israel.

So on a spiritual level, the middle of the week starts the 3.5 years of the Dragons ( all authority rule ) here on earth.

The remaining Bride,( or two witnesses), will have already started their 3.5 mission as the Ambassadors of Christ.Declaring the Kingdom being set up, ( in the heavens ) and their message of doom. Rev 13: Rev 11:

The putting a stop to all sacrifices in spiritual Israel would be the fruitage's of the lips. I feel it will be then in the middle of the week ( when the peace treaty will be broken ) that's when the tribulation starts
on the true followers of Christ that haven't taken the mark
of the beast .
The Dragon trying to put a stop to the growth of the great crowd that started to gather ,from listening to the remaining bride.

John 17:17-20 (American Standard Version)

17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou didst send me into the world, even so sent I them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

20 Neither for these only do I pray, but for them

also that believe on me through their word;

>>>>>>>>>>


I am not predicting anything.

Seems to me ,we may be nearing the time

for the fulfillment of these scriptures.( or is it based on my hope !)

Nevertheless, near or far off, God cannot lie.

Have to wait and see.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jehovah and one is a large army]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7873 Thu, 11 Aug 2011 09:40:54 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7873 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7872 Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:04:57 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7872
This board will be closed soon except for reading. We've decided not to do a lot of archiving on the new site except, perhaps, material we're presently working on. It'll be nice to have a fresh start.

The new and improved Paradise Cafe is at:

The New Paradise Cafe

love to all,
rez]]>
This board will be closed soon except for reading. We've decided not to do a lot of archiving on the new site except, perhaps, material we're presently working on. It'll be nice to have a fresh start.

The new and improved Paradise Cafe is at:

The New Paradise Cafe

love to all,
rez]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7871 Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:04:57 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7871
This board will be closed soon except for reading. We've decided not to do a lot of archiving on the new site except, perhaps, material we're presently working on. It'll be nice to have a fresh start.

The new and improved Paradise Cafe is at:

The New Paradise Cafe

love to all,
rez]]>
This board will be closed soon except for reading. We've decided not to do a lot of archiving on the new site except, perhaps, material we're presently working on. It'll be nice to have a fresh start.

The new and improved Paradise Cafe is at:

The New Paradise Cafe

love to all,
rez]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7870 Wed, 10 Aug 2011 17:34:56 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7870
Paul's Hardships

''We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our
ministry will not be discredited.'' 2 Cor. 6:3

''Rather, as servants of GOd we commend ourselves in every way;
in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; (4)

''in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless
nights and hunger, (5)

''in purity, understanding, patience and kindness;
in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love;'' (6)

''in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons
of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; (7)

''through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report;
genuine,yet regarded as imposters; (8)

''known, yet regarded as unknown, dying, and
yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed.'' (9)

sorrowful , yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich;
having nothing, and yet possessing everything.'' (10)

''We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened
wide our hearts to you. (11)

''We are not witholding our affection from you, but you
are withholding yours from us.'' (12)

''As a fair exchange--I speak as to my children--:heartbeat:
open wide your hearts also.'' (13) (beautiful)

I can so hear the words--''open wide your hearts--to us.''
that is all they asked after describing all they were going through--
very heart touching to me....

I loved verse 10 also--''having nothing, yet possessing everything.''
Don't we feel that way--we have Jesus and he is everything and without him there is nothing...sums it up pretty perfectly in my mind...

have a wonderful evening friends--with an open heart :heartbeat:]]>
Paul's Hardships

''We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our
ministry will not be discredited.'' 2 Cor. 6:3

''Rather, as servants of GOd we commend ourselves in every way;
in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; (4)

''in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless
nights and hunger, (5)

''in purity, understanding, patience and kindness;
in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love;'' (6)

''in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons
of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; (7)

''through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report;
genuine,yet regarded as imposters; (8)

''known, yet regarded as unknown, dying, and
yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed.'' (9)

sorrowful , yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich;
having nothing, and yet possessing everything.'' (10)

''We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened
wide our hearts to you. (11)

''We are not witholding our affection from you, but you
are withholding yours from us.'' (12)

''As a fair exchange--I speak as to my children--:heartbeat:
open wide your hearts also.'' (13) (beautiful)

I can so hear the words--''open wide your hearts--to us.''
that is all they asked after describing all they were going through--
very heart touching to me....

I loved verse 10 also--''having nothing, yet possessing everything.''
Don't we feel that way--we have Jesus and he is everything and without him there is nothing...sums it up pretty perfectly in my mind...

have a wonderful evening friends--with an open heart :heartbeat:]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7869 Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:17:48 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7869
Can you see what the GB have allowed in this article?




inscription in a church i think from Quebec]]>
Can you see what the GB have allowed in this article?




inscription in a church i think from Quebec]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7868 Wed, 10 Aug 2011 04:44:49 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7868


I tried to get the feeling of her being in a castle looking out of the window.

]]>


I tried to get the feeling of her being in a castle looking out of the window.

]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7867 Wed, 10 Aug 2011 02:03:01 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7867

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories...-23332482/

Out of the bad some people will shine brightly.]]>

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories...-23332482/

Out of the bad some people will shine brightly.]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7866 Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:27:36 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7866
Another one of my all-time favorite scriptures! It's probably one of yours' too, since it describes paradise!
To be with God, and with our Shepherd, the Lamb who has washed us clean and given us life - in a place where there is no mourning, hunger or thirst, or working under a relentless sun - literally no wants or unfulfilled needs. This is every believers' realized Kingdom hope!

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

Psalm 121:5 The LORD is your keeper; The LORD is your shade on your right hand.

Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want.

Ezekiel 37:27 My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people.

What a magnificent hope it is, too ---

Isaiah 25:1; 8-9 O LORD, You are my God; I will exalt You, I will give thanks to Your name; For You have worked wonders, Plans formed long ago, with perfect faithfulness.
He will swallow up death for all time, And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces, And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken. And it will be said in that day, “Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us. This is the LORD for whom we have waited; Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation.”

Revelation 21:4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

:sing: May we join together in praise!
“Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” Revelation 7:12


Love to ALL,
:love: Willa :heartbeat: ]]>
Another one of my all-time favorite scriptures! It's probably one of yours' too, since it describes paradise!
To be with God, and with our Shepherd, the Lamb who has washed us clean and given us life - in a place where there is no mourning, hunger or thirst, or working under a relentless sun - literally no wants or unfulfilled needs. This is every believers' realized Kingdom hope!

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

Psalm 121:5 The LORD is your keeper; The LORD is your shade on your right hand.

Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want.

Ezekiel 37:27 My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people.

What a magnificent hope it is, too ---

Isaiah 25:1; 8-9 O LORD, You are my God; I will exalt You, I will give thanks to Your name; For You have worked wonders, Plans formed long ago, with perfect faithfulness.
He will swallow up death for all time, And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces, And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken. And it will be said in that day, “Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us. This is the LORD for whom we have waited; Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation.”

Revelation 21:4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

:sing: May we join together in praise!
“Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” Revelation 7:12


Love to ALL,
:love: Willa :heartbeat: ]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7865 Tue, 09 Aug 2011 08:35:55 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7865
http://business.in.com/article/on-assign...ud/15932/0

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore]]>
http://business.in.com/article/on-assign...ud/15932/0

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7864 Tue, 09 Aug 2011 06:19:37 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7864
This has always seemed to me to be a most significant scripture--the sustaining qualities of the entire universe are faith, hope and love--
all else can fade and fail but they will remain and sustain forever...

''For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.'' Galatians 5:6 :heartbeat:

''We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.'' 1 Thess. 1:3

Hope--a penetrating hope :heartbeat:

''We have this hope as an anchjor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain,'' Hebrews 6:19

and most importantly--love is the most important quality of all--for all of us :heartbeat:

''Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.''
1 John 4:8

''And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.'' 1 John 4:16

I think it is always a wonderful reminder to be of love--some days it is easier to remember that than others. Faith and hope are components of Godly love and help us keep our hearts soft and loving and compliant...The spirit of this world underestimates the strength and power and the value of true Godly love. IT is Love that divides us from that spirit. :heartbeat:

we live by faith --but we walk in love :heartbeat:

''Love is the hardest lesson in Christianity;
but, for that reason, it should be most our care to learn it.''
William Penn

''The best portion of a good man's life,
His little, nameless, unremembered acts
Of kindness and love.'' William Wordsworth

and my favorite quote for today--some days you just
have to dig deeper than others :heartbeat:

''Prayer and love are learned in the
hour when prayer has become impossible
and your heart has turned to stone.''''
Thomas Merton....

have a wonderful summer on the wane day today friends--
love, love, love you all :heartbeat: :grouphug: :heartbeat:]]>
This has always seemed to me to be a most significant scripture--the sustaining qualities of the entire universe are faith, hope and love--
all else can fade and fail but they will remain and sustain forever...

''For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.'' Galatians 5:6 :heartbeat:

''We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.'' 1 Thess. 1:3

Hope--a penetrating hope :heartbeat:

''We have this hope as an anchjor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain,'' Hebrews 6:19

and most importantly--love is the most important quality of all--for all of us :heartbeat:

''Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.''
1 John 4:8

''And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.'' 1 John 4:16

I think it is always a wonderful reminder to be of love--some days it is easier to remember that than others. Faith and hope are components of Godly love and help us keep our hearts soft and loving and compliant...The spirit of this world underestimates the strength and power and the value of true Godly love. IT is Love that divides us from that spirit. :heartbeat:

we live by faith --but we walk in love :heartbeat:

''Love is the hardest lesson in Christianity;
but, for that reason, it should be most our care to learn it.''
William Penn

''The best portion of a good man's life,
His little, nameless, unremembered acts
Of kindness and love.'' William Wordsworth

and my favorite quote for today--some days you just
have to dig deeper than others :heartbeat:

''Prayer and love are learned in the
hour when prayer has become impossible
and your heart has turned to stone.''''
Thomas Merton....

have a wonderful summer on the wane day today friends--
love, love, love you all :heartbeat: :grouphug: :heartbeat:]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7863 Mon, 08 Aug 2011 17:46:21 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7863
http://www.christianwitnesses.com/


..]]>
http://www.christianwitnesses.com/


..]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7862 Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:42:10 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7862
Well, I was just reading some of the second link br. bangalore put up about the 'new light' ... didn't finish reading it as I decided to take a quick peek at the scripture itself and do some reasoning on my own!

Well, in my quick thoughts I come up with something pretty radical, hence my decision to put it in this section as no doubt I will be thought of as quite 'loony' if someone wants to read my meanderings ... all of which are totally open to being shot down as I haven't even finished my initial thoughts but thought I would put it up here for 'analysis' ...

Here is where I am so far and nothing is of course 'written' or 'thought' of 'in stone' as our true understanding is not able to done until the 'time of the end' and 'in the end' all of our reasonings may be far from what we can come up with now ... :blush::thinking:

Anyway ... here goes nothin ...;):whistle:

I will just put up my 'thoughts' and if anyone wants to have the 'definitions' I can put them up later ... this way makes for a hopefully 'shorter' reading for ya'll ...! :giverose:

What if this ‘image’ is NOT referring to various world powers but just ONE THING … a FALSE KINGDOM …

The KINGDOM OF THE SERPENT!?

This wicked spirit being has longed for a kingdom of his own has he not … one in which he hopes will prove fertile and spread over the entire globe, filled with his ‘children’ or ‘seed’.

Could the description of this image show the characteristics of this false kingdom?

The 'bright image’ that the king saw was terrible … or SNAKELIKE … thus perhaps picturing the ‘original serpent’ being in control or the ruler of this ‘kingdom’?

The ‘head’ seems it could refer to the ‘ruler’ himself or the ‘sum’ which can mean the ‘height’ or ‘completion’ of something, or something that is ‘organized together’ for a purpose. So if indeed this image is representative of a ‘counterfeit kingdom’ then it would have a ‘ruler’ and a ‘purpose’ and it would be something to ‘imitate’ the ‘true light’ but the light that it would shed would be a ‘false’ one.

The ‘arms’ which denote ‘strength’ could show that this false kingdom would be a MIGHTY and POWERFUL one …

The 'belly' seems like it might denote the ‘heart’ or the ‘purpose’ of this kingdom … maybe its ‘hidden agenda’ so to speak … and since this image’s appearance was TERRIBLE and would cause such emotions as to make one afraid, or fearful, as well as the fact that it also has a ‘slinky’ connotation … thus showing perhaps again the idea of the ‘original serpent’ and his cunning and intelligence, this ‘kingdom’ (if that is indeed what is represented) would be a VERY BAD thing!

Then we come to the ‘thigh’ and a word that is used only in a figurative sense and means to be able to have the power of generating , propogating, originating or producing something, (the kingdom perhaps?) and which could perhaps apply to the ‘ruler’s helpers (invisible spirit creatures) and its physical or human followers and/or worshippers.

I also find interesting that the 'leg' not only denotes something as ‘running’ or moving showing perhaps its progression or maybe ‘time’ of ‘ruling’ … but that it could also mean ‘overflowing’ as in ‘water’. If indeed ‘water’ is also implied by this vision, then anyone who would drink of it would be ‘poisoned’ by the ‘venom’ that would come forth from its ‘head’ wouldn’t it … it would by ‘dry like dust’ and just as unappetizing rather like the ‘food’ that the serpent’ was cursed to ‘eat’ all its days.

Then we come to the ‘foot’ of the matter. What I found very interesting about this word is that the Hebrew word for ‘foot’ doesn’t necessarily mean the literal ‘foot’ at the bottom of our bodies.

Rather it can mean something quite different!

Since this passage of scripture is written in a figurative or euphemistic way I would think that we need to look beyond the organs described to see their deeper and figurative meaning perhaps?

The Hebrew word for ‘foot’ can also mean a euphemism for the pudenda.

I had to look up what that meant and found myself surprised to find that it meant a person’s external genitals, especially that of a woman. Also of interest was that the organs being spoken of were in particular in reference to the sexual reproduction of the person.

What this could mean could vary.

Is there going to come a time when the spirit creatures will seek to ‘join’ with man again, perhaps this is in reference to the ‘feet’ being made of TWO DIFFERENT things … ‘iron and clay’ … ‘iron maybe representing something ‘stronger’ (spirit beings?) and the ‘clay’ representing thngs of the ‘earth’ (man?)

Or ...

Could it also symbolic of the ENDURANCE or TIME that this ‘false or imitation kingdom’ will ‘rule’ or ‘reign’?

What I also found interesting in light of what I have just been quickly looking into is that the ‘stone’ which strikes this image doesn’t go for its HEAD … which one would think would be the ‘obvious’ place to strike as it could cause instant death.

No it instead goes for the FEET!
Showing that the destruction of something not good is not going to endure forever but will come to swift and complete end!

In light of realizing that the feet 'could' represent something UNNATURAL (again spirit and human copulation) and/or its ‘fertility’ or ability to ‘endure’ this to me could make much more sense!

Anyway, enough for now I guess ...

Told ya you'd think I'd gone nuts ... but these thoughts just came to me out of the blue and I just wrote them down a quickly as I could, I feel I am not done yet ... but didn't want to keep on going as I am probably waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off track here ... and I have to go pick someone up as well!

So, jump on me ... I really don't mind for I wouldn't want to say something or think something that was totally wrong or insane!

Thanks to anyone who decided to read this ... and look forward to any input at all ...

Luv as always, your ever researching and thinking BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:]]>
Well, I was just reading some of the second link br. bangalore put up about the 'new light' ... didn't finish reading it as I decided to take a quick peek at the scripture itself and do some reasoning on my own!

Well, in my quick thoughts I come up with something pretty radical, hence my decision to put it in this section as no doubt I will be thought of as quite 'loony' if someone wants to read my meanderings ... all of which are totally open to being shot down as I haven't even finished my initial thoughts but thought I would put it up here for 'analysis' ...

Here is where I am so far and nothing is of course 'written' or 'thought' of 'in stone' as our true understanding is not able to done until the 'time of the end' and 'in the end' all of our reasonings may be far from what we can come up with now ... :blush::thinking:

Anyway ... here goes nothin ...;):whistle:

I will just put up my 'thoughts' and if anyone wants to have the 'definitions' I can put them up later ... this way makes for a hopefully 'shorter' reading for ya'll ...! :giverose:

What if this ‘image’ is NOT referring to various world powers but just ONE THING … a FALSE KINGDOM …

The KINGDOM OF THE SERPENT!?

This wicked spirit being has longed for a kingdom of his own has he not … one in which he hopes will prove fertile and spread over the entire globe, filled with his ‘children’ or ‘seed’.

Could the description of this image show the characteristics of this false kingdom?

The 'bright image’ that the king saw was terrible … or SNAKELIKE … thus perhaps picturing the ‘original serpent’ being in control or the ruler of this ‘kingdom’?

The ‘head’ seems it could refer to the ‘ruler’ himself or the ‘sum’ which can mean the ‘height’ or ‘completion’ of something, or something that is ‘organized together’ for a purpose. So if indeed this image is representative of a ‘counterfeit kingdom’ then it would have a ‘ruler’ and a ‘purpose’ and it would be something to ‘imitate’ the ‘true light’ but the light that it would shed would be a ‘false’ one.

The ‘arms’ which denote ‘strength’ could show that this false kingdom would be a MIGHTY and POWERFUL one …

The 'belly' seems like it might denote the ‘heart’ or the ‘purpose’ of this kingdom … maybe its ‘hidden agenda’ so to speak … and since this image’s appearance was TERRIBLE and would cause such emotions as to make one afraid, or fearful, as well as the fact that it also has a ‘slinky’ connotation … thus showing perhaps again the idea of the ‘original serpent’ and his cunning and intelligence, this ‘kingdom’ (if that is indeed what is represented) would be a VERY BAD thing!

Then we come to the ‘thigh’ and a word that is used only in a figurative sense and means to be able to have the power of generating , propogating, originating or producing something, (the kingdom perhaps?) and which could perhaps apply to the ‘ruler’s helpers (invisible spirit creatures) and its physical or human followers and/or worshippers.

I also find interesting that the 'leg' not only denotes something as ‘running’ or moving showing perhaps its progression or maybe ‘time’ of ‘ruling’ … but that it could also mean ‘overflowing’ as in ‘water’. If indeed ‘water’ is also implied by this vision, then anyone who would drink of it would be ‘poisoned’ by the ‘venom’ that would come forth from its ‘head’ wouldn’t it … it would by ‘dry like dust’ and just as unappetizing rather like the ‘food’ that the serpent’ was cursed to ‘eat’ all its days.

Then we come to the ‘foot’ of the matter. What I found very interesting about this word is that the Hebrew word for ‘foot’ doesn’t necessarily mean the literal ‘foot’ at the bottom of our bodies.

Rather it can mean something quite different!

Since this passage of scripture is written in a figurative or euphemistic way I would think that we need to look beyond the organs described to see their deeper and figurative meaning perhaps?

The Hebrew word for ‘foot’ can also mean a euphemism for the pudenda.

I had to look up what that meant and found myself surprised to find that it meant a person’s external genitals, especially that of a woman. Also of interest was that the organs being spoken of were in particular in reference to the sexual reproduction of the person.

What this could mean could vary.

Is there going to come a time when the spirit creatures will seek to ‘join’ with man again, perhaps this is in reference to the ‘feet’ being made of TWO DIFFERENT things … ‘iron and clay’ … ‘iron maybe representing something ‘stronger’ (spirit beings?) and the ‘clay’ representing thngs of the ‘earth’ (man?)

Or ...

Could it also symbolic of the ENDURANCE or TIME that this ‘false or imitation kingdom’ will ‘rule’ or ‘reign’?

What I also found interesting in light of what I have just been quickly looking into is that the ‘stone’ which strikes this image doesn’t go for its HEAD … which one would think would be the ‘obvious’ place to strike as it could cause instant death.

No it instead goes for the FEET!
Showing that the destruction of something not good is not going to endure forever but will come to swift and complete end!

In light of realizing that the feet 'could' represent something UNNATURAL (again spirit and human copulation) and/or its ‘fertility’ or ability to ‘endure’ this to me could make much more sense!

Anyway, enough for now I guess ...

Told ya you'd think I'd gone nuts ... but these thoughts just came to me out of the blue and I just wrote them down a quickly as I could, I feel I am not done yet ... but didn't want to keep on going as I am probably waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off track here ... and I have to go pick someone up as well!

So, jump on me ... I really don't mind for I wouldn't want to say something or think something that was totally wrong or insane!

Thanks to anyone who decided to read this ... and look forward to any input at all ...

Luv as always, your ever researching and thinking BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:]]> http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7861 Mon, 08 Aug 2011 07:10:41 -0500 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showthread.php?tid=7861
written by David after he pretended to be insane before Abimelech, who drove him away, and he left...David was feeling very relieved and grateful to God..... :heartbeat: ..this is a poem of david and they always reflect his great faith. It is so easy to see why David was muchly loved of God...... :heartbeat:
Some highlights :heartbeat:

''I will extol the LORD at all times;
his praise will always be on my lips. (1)
''My soul will boast in the LORD;
Let the afflicted hear and rejoice. (2)
Glorify the LORD with me;
let us exalt his name together.'' (3)

''I sought the LORD, and he answered me;
he delivered me from all my fears. (4)
''Those who look to him are radiant;
their faces are never covered with shame. (5)
This poor man called, and the LORD heard him;
and saved him out of all his troubles. (6)
The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear
him,
and he delivers them,'' (7)

and today's featured section :heartbeat:

''Come, my children, listen to me;
I will teach you the fear of the LORD. (11)
Whoever of you loves life
and desires to see many good days, (12)
keep your tongue from evil
and your lips from speaking lies. (13)
Turn from evil and do good;
seek peace and pursue it.'' (14) ..timely advice written many many years ago ...this council is repeated many times throughout scripture and is necessary to abide by as it reflects our pursuit of peace as well as our character...every good thing about this life is wrapped up in the Lord :heartbeat:

''If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his worship is worthless.'' James 1:26

''He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.'' 1 Peter 2:22

and finally for today concerning our attitude and speech :heartbeat:

''Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing,
because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.''
1 Peter 3:9 ....

have a wonderful day friends--it is still pouring rain and now I am wondering if it is going to rain until it turns to snow (don't say that word) ..we will see but it sure is a distinct possibility...love you all :grouphug:]]>
written by David after he pretended to be insane before Abimelech, who drove him away, and he left...David was feeling very relieved and grateful to God..... :heartbeat: ..this is a poem of david and they always reflect his great faith. It is so easy to see why David was muchly loved of God...... :heartbeat:
Some highlights :heartbeat:

''I will extol the LORD at all times;
his praise will always be on my lips. (1)
''My soul will boast in the LORD;
Let the afflicted hear and rejoice. (2)
Glorify the LORD with me;
let us exalt his name together.'' (3)

''I sought the LORD, and he answered me;
he delivered me from all my fears. (4)
''Those who look to him are radiant;
their faces are never covered with shame. (5)
This poor man called, and the LORD heard him;
and saved him out of all his troubles. (6)
The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear
him,
and he delivers them,'' (7)

and today's featured section :heartbeat:

''Come, my children, listen to me;
I will teach you the fear of the LORD. (11)
Whoever of you loves life
and desires to see many good days, (12)
keep your tongue from evil
and your lips from speaking lies. (13)
Turn from evil and do good;
seek peace and pursue it.'' (14) ..timely advice written many many years ago ...this council is repeated many times throughout scripture and is necessary to abide by as it reflects our pursuit of peace as well as our character...every good thing about this life is wrapped up in the Lord :heartbeat:

''If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his worship is worthless.'' James 1:26

''He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.'' 1 Peter 2:22

and finally for today concerning our attitude and speech :heartbeat:

''Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing,
because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.''
1 Peter 3:9 ....

have a wonderful day friends--it is still pouring rain and now I am wondering if it is going to rain until it turns to snow (don't say that word) ..we will see but it sure is a distinct possibility...love you all :grouphug:]]>