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Why did Jesus ask....
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Prodigal Son
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Why did Jesus ask....

.....his disciples who people were saying he was?

Matthew 16:13 Now when he had come into the parts of Caes·a·re´a Phi·lip´pi, Jesus went asking his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·li´jah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."


"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?" ~1 Corinthians 6:19
07-17-2010 10:14 AM
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SWORDOFJAH
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

Prodigal Son Wrote:
.....his disciples who people were saying he was?

Matthew 16:13 Now when he had come into the parts of Caes·a·re´a Phi·lip´pi, Jesus went asking his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·li´jah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."


Questions about Jesus’ real identity became common among people of his day, so Jesus asked his apostles who people were saying he was.

(Matthew 16:13-16) 13 Now when he had come into the parts of Caes·a·re´a Phi·lip´pi, Jesus went asking his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·li´jah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them: “YOU, though, who do YOU say I am?” 16 In answer Simon Peter said: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”


(Judges 7:20) “. . ., and they began calling out: “Jehovah’s sword . . .”

07-17-2010 10:44 AM
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Prodigal Son
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

SWORDOFJAH Wrote:
Questions about Jesus’ real identity became common among people of his day, so Jesus asked his apostles who people were saying he was.


Okay, so why were common people speculating that Jesus was a resurrection of famous people who had died?


"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?" ~1 Corinthians 6:19
07-17-2010 10:58 AM
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SWORDOFJAH
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

Prodigal Son Wrote:

SWORDOFJAH Wrote:
Questions about Jesus’ real identity became common among people of his day, so Jesus asked his apostles who people were saying he was.


Okay, so why were common people speculating that Jesus was a resurrection of famous people who had died?


They think Jesus is one of these men raised from the dead!
Why?


*** w81 12/15 p. 17 par. 4 Hold Fast the “Good News”! ***

However, there are many indications that these believed in an earthly resurrection. Apparently that is why they conjectured that Jesus might be the risen ‘John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah or another of the prophets.’—Matt. 16:14.


(Judges 7:20) “. . ., and they began calling out: “Jehovah’s sword . . .”

07-17-2010 12:44 PM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

Prodigal Son Wrote:
.....his disciples who people were saying he was?

Matthew 16:13 Now when he had come into the parts of Caes·a·re´a Phi·lip´pi, Jesus went asking his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·li´jah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."



Perhaps he was concerned that people might believe that the resurrection had begun.

Or that some other old testament prophecy was being fulfilled;


Malachi 4
5 “Look! I am sending to YOU people E·li´jah the prophet before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah.

In Christ

abe


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07-17-2010 12:51 PM
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e-magine
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

Of course they believed in an Earthly resurection!
But P S is asking WHY are they speculating that JESUS is a resurected person.
I think it must be because of his miracles and notoriety.


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
07-17-2010 01:10 PM
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Prodigal Son
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

SWORDOFJAH Wrote:
*** w81 12/15 p. 17 par. 4 Hold Fast the “Good News”! ***

However, there are many indications that these believed in an earthly resurrection. Apparently that is why they conjectured that Jesus might be the risen ‘John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah or another of the prophets.’—Matt. 16:14.


There's one of those Watchtower key words ("apparently") that signifies they either don't know what the heck they are talking about or they're trying to cover up the truth about something....

This is not a sufficient answer, because in Orthodox Christian teaching people are resurrected as themselves, not somebody else.


"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?" ~1 Corinthians 6:19
07-17-2010 02:04 PM
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Susanna
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

Hi all ,Hope I can throw in my two cents

Jesus was sent to preach to the house of Israel (Jews ) they thought he Jesus must be one of the older prophets that was resurrected, because they were not being directed to the promised seed by their religious leaders.

His disciples reconized Jesus and accepted him as the son of the Most High God , as the Messiah The promised seed . Gen 3:15

By Jesus asking this question , he knew for sure the Pharasees were not doing what they should have done, other wise he would have been reconized. By asking who the crowds thought he was before going into the towns mentioned, he had a idea of what to expect.
Just Like today

Christ disciples certainly weren't being directed to Jesus , They no doubt got every thing they knew about the promised seed , by making the truth there own. following Christ seed from the prophets of old. Then of course Holy Spirit drew them to Jesus. John 4:23-24
:

The Pharisees had the Jews over loaded with traditions rather then the scriptures that would identify Jesus on his arriving..The Jews were just being feed crumbs of spiritual food.

That's why Jesus was so out spoken to the Pharisees in chapter of Matt 15 .( good reading )

John the Baptist was a forerunner to make way for Jesus or prepare a people for Jesus, .six months before Jesus got baptized , John who was a cousin had to even ask Jehovah how he (Jesus ) would be identified,
By the dove coming down ( at baptisim ) on Jesus, representing Gods Holy Spirit, Jehovah told John.

That's how little the promised seed ( Jesus ) was spoken of by the false shepherds of Gods people..

How strange ! Or is it really strange !!

Today those that know the Most High were convinced that Jesus returned a century ago.
Yep, once again by false shepherds :cry:

As for the resurrection, the only hope there was before Christ was to be brought back to earth.
It was Christ who opened the door for his co-rulers to be in heaven with him thru the New Covenant. Thats why he is known as the first fruits offered up to his Father.


susanna :grouphug:

.


Jehovah and one is a large army
07-17-2010 02:23 PM
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e-magine
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

Hi Susanna! Good points!
It made me think, JWs are taught that Jesus has already returned invisibly. When he returns for real, will JWs recognize him?


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
07-17-2010 04:45 PM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

e-magine Wrote:
Hi Susanna! Good points!
It made me think, JWs are taught that Jesus has already returned invisibly. When he returns for real, will JWs recognize him?


e-magine,

Yep, when Jesus Christ returns and appoints the faithful slaves over their domestics what will JWs think?

What are the Governing Body going to say then?


New light!



In Christ


abe


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07-17-2010 05:03 PM
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isomam
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

Prodigal Son Wrote:
.....his disciples who people were saying he was?

Matthew 16:13 Now when he had come into the parts of Caes·a·re´a Phi·lip´pi, Jesus went asking his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·li´jah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."


hi jimmy, :hibye: howya doin'? :ok:

it's a good thought-stimulating question you ask. :thumbup:

personally, my opinion (and it's nothing more than that, of course) is that he was employing a teaching technique which i call "compare and contrast."

this first question was really to set up the second question, namely:

15 He said to them: “YOU, though, who do YOU say I am?” 16 In answer Simon Peter said: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

he wanted them to come to consciously appreciate that they were becoming something different from the others around them -- not in terms of being better than others (all have sinned, etc.), but -- in terms of their attitudes, viewpoints, perceptions, and understanding. oh, they still had a long way to go, but they were changing, and i think that is what he wanted to point out to them. :thinking:

your friend and brother, ... isomam


Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.--1 Timothy 1:15.

Above all things, have INTENSE Love for one another.--1 Peter 4:8.

Sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts. ... Hold a good conscience.--1 Peter 3:15, 16.

TRUTH IS SIMPLE.
07-17-2010 06:12 PM
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Prodigal Son
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

Hey peeps, those are all really good thoughts!

My thinking is that perhaps people in general had a different belief about the resurrection than we have been led to believe.... and who would be in a position to know?

The famous Jewish historian Josephus had been one of the few survivors of a bloody siege, as a general in the campaign against the Roman commander Vespasian. Addressing some Jewish soldiers who were about to commit suicide rather than be captured by the Romans, he said in his book "The Jewish War":

"The bodies of all men are, indeed mortal, and are created out of corruptible matter; but the soul is ever immortal, and is a portion of the divinity that inhabits our bodies. ... Do not you know, that those who depart out of this life according to the law of nature... enjoy eternal fame; that their houses and their posterity are sure; that their souls are pure and obedient, and obtain a most holy place in heaven, from whence, in the revolution of ages, they are again sent into pure bodies; while the souls of those whose hands have acted madly against themselves are received by the darkest place in Hades?"

Josephus also told how the three principal schools of Jewish philosophy, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Essenes, regarded immortality. The Sadducees apparently believed that the soul dies with the body. The Pharisees "say that all the souls are incorruptible, but the souls of good men only, are removed into other bodies, but the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment. (With the Jews, "eternal" did not mean everlasting but a very long time.) In "The Antiquities of the Jews", Josephus repeats that the Pharisees "believe that souls have an immortal vigor," and that the virtuous "shall have power to revive and live again" on earth, "on account of which doctrines they are able greatly to persuade the body of the people.

Quoting again from "The Jewish War":

"The Essenes condemn the miseries of life, and are above pain, by the generosity of their mind. And as for death ... our war with the Romans gave abundant evidence what great souls they had in their trails. ...They smiled in their very pains and laulhed to scorn those who inflicted torments upon them and resigned up their souls with great alacrity, as expecting to receive them again. For the doctrine is this, that bodies are corruptible, and that the matter they are made of is not permanent; but that the souls are immortal, and continue forever; and they come out of the most subtile air, and are united to their bodies as to prisons, into which they are drawn by a certain natural enticement; but that when they are set free from the bonds of flesh, they then, as released from a long bondage, rejoice and mount upward. ... These are the divine doctrines of the Essenes about the soul, which lay an unavoidable bait for such as have once had a taste of their philosophy."

Just some things to make us think, folks! I'll see y'all tomorrow, have a wonderful evening!

Jimmy C.


"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?" ~1 Corinthians 6:19
07-17-2010 07:00 PM
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isomam
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

hi again, jimmy :hibye: i respect josephus and reference his works on a regular basis myself. but i think it is worth noting that ever since antiochus epiphanes raided and ravaged the rebuilt temple in 165 b.c.e. (or thereabouts), the jews became very susceptible to neo-platonism, with its inherent doctrine of the immortality of the human soul. so i do take what josephus says with a grain of salt when he is speaking doctrinally as a hellenized jew; especially if it contradicts what i believe the bible teaches. ;) when he is speaking as a historian, i see no reason to question his integrity or accuracy.

you have a great evening too, ... iso


Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost.--1 Timothy 1:15.

Above all things, have INTENSE Love for one another.--1 Peter 4:8.

Sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts. ... Hold a good conscience.--1 Peter 3:15, 16.

TRUTH IS SIMPLE.
07-17-2010 07:18 PM
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man hu
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

isomam Wrote:
personally, my opinion (and it's nothing more than that, of course) is that he was employing a teaching technique which i call "compare and contrast."

this first question was really to set up the second question, namely:

15 He said to them: “YOU, though, who do YOU say I am?” 16 In answer Simon Peter said: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”


This is an interesting scripture that most Bibles translate incorrectly.

Peter said "You are the Christ, the son of the God of the living (singular).

These words are similar to those found later in Matthew 22:31.
Referring to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jesus says his father is the God not of the dead but of the living ones.
This is much more profound.
Jehovah as the father of Christ meant that Christ was guaranteed eternal life. He was not a resurrected dead prophet, but he, with such a father, intrinsically had eternal life.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1sj2gQJIKI
07-18-2010 09:01 AM
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Derek
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RE: Why did Jesus ask....

Hi,
We have had a similar discussion before on this text referring to Caes·a·re´a Phi·lip´pi. I think it was with Willa.

As Iso said, personally, my opinion (and it's nothing more than that, of course) is that he was employing a teaching technique which i call "compare and contrast."

When one realises Jesus was in the area of an actual rockmass and pagan shrine, it is quite possible Jesus was leading up to a further layer of teaching and his main objective which they would never forgot.

He, perhaps, finally, is actually contrasting and comparing the pagan shrine and rock mass in their view, with himself, as the True Rock Mass of the Church of God.
regards
Derek



We go in faith, our own great weakness feeling,
And needing more each day Thy grace to know:
Yet from our hearts a song of triumph pealing,
“We rest on Thee, and in Thy Name we go.”
07-18-2010 09:27 AM
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