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the low plain of A´chor
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #1
the low plain of A´chor

Certainly seems like an end time prophecy.

Hosea 2:14
“‘Therefore here I am prevailing upon her, and I will cause her to go into the wilderness, and I will speak to her heart. 15 And I will give her her vineyards from then onward, and the low plain of A´chor as an entrance to hope; and she will certainly answer there as in the days of her youth and as in the day of her coming up out of the land of Egypt. 16 And it must occur in that day,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that you will call [me] My husband, and you will no longer call me My owner.’


In the wilderness - (Rev 12)
Speak to her heart - (fed in the wilderness)
Call me my husband - (the Bride?)


also this scripture:


Isaiah 65:10
8 This is what Jehovah has said: “In the same way that the new wine is found in the cluster and someone has to say, ‘Do not ruin it, because there is a blessing in it,’ so I shall do for the sake of my servants in order not to bring everybody to ruin. 9 And I will bring forth out of Jacob an offspring and out of Judah the hereditary possessor of my mountains; and my chosen ones must take possession of it, and my own servants will reside there. 10 And Shar´on must become a pasture ground for sheep and the low plain of A´chor a resting-place for cattle, for my people who will have looked for me.


The low plain of A´chor seems to play a role in the end times.

Jesus Christ said some would be taken along and others left behind.

The inevitable question is where?

I think this topic deserves some discussion.


In Christ

abe


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04-11-2010 11:21 AM
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rus virgil
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RE: the low plain of A´chor

It seems to be the same action

Ezekiel 34
11. For thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out.

12. "As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his scattered sheep, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day.

13. "I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land.

14. "I will feed them in a good pasture, and their grazing ground will be on the mountain heights of Israel There they will lie down on good grazing ground and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.

15. "I will feed My flock and I will lead them to rest," declares the Lord GOD.

16. "I will seek the lost, bring back the scattered, bind up the broken and strengthen the sick;
but the fat and the strong I will destroy I will feed them with judgment.


That action is taking place in the "day of judgement" , ongoing action.

Quote:
The low plain of A´chor seems to play a role in the end times.

Jesus Christ said some would be taken along and others left behind.

The inevitable question is where?


Jesus answers :
Luke 17
36. "...................... ;
one will be taken and the other will be left."

37. And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?"
And He said to them,
"Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

in Christ,
rus virgil

04-11-2010 08:00 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #3
RE: the low plain of A´chor

rus virgil Wrote:
Jesus answers :
Luke 17
36. "...................... ;
one will be taken and the other will be left."

37. And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?"
And He said to them,
"Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

in Christ,
rus virgil


Rus,

The low plain of Achor is mentioned in Hosea Chapter 1.

This scripture in Hosea several chapters later mentions the vultures:


Hosea 8:1-3 (The Message)
"Blow the trumpet! Sound the alarm! Vultures are circling over God's people
Who have broken my covenant
and defied my revelation.
Predictably, Israel cries out, 'My God! We know you!'
But they don't act like it.
Israel will have nothing to do with what's good,
and now the enemy is after them.


In my opinion the ones who are "taken along" will not have undermined the holy covenant and profaned the temple.

It is the ones left behind who will have to deal with the vultures.

"Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

The body mentioned in this scripture is the dead body or carcass.

The ones who continue undermining the holy covenant.

The disgusting thing that WILL cause desolation.

Isaiah 66:6
There is a sound of uproar out of the city, a sound out of the temple! It is the sound of Jehovah repaying what is deserved to his enemies.

I believe the vultures are circling over the enemies inside of God's temple.

They are the dead body (carcass).

I believe the saints who kept on the watch should now be doing this; "Blow the trumpet! Sound the alarm!

Food at the proper time.


In Christ

abe


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04-12-2010 11:49 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #4
RE: the low plain of A´chor

rus virgil Wrote:

Quote:
The low plain of A´chor seems to play a role in the end times.

Jesus Christ said some would be taken along and others left behind.

The inevitable question is where?


Jesus answers :
Luke 17
36. "...................... ;
one will be taken and the other will be left."


in Christ,
rus virgil



I have been giving this some thought.

Many years ago people from Europe began migrating to North America with the hopes of setting up a life and community different to the life and communitties they were living in.

In my opinion the communities developed in North America are no different to the ones these European pioneers were attempting to escape.

I look around the world and see nowhere else to go.

Everything has been corrupted.

A Christian can try and live a righteous life in amoungst the corruption however, he may still suffer abuse and treachery from the very community where he is living.

It does not seem fair.

Achor apparently means "trouble".

So calling the wilderness; the low plain of Achor, seems fitting to the present situation.

Similar to the Israelites waiting in the wilderness to cross into the promised land.

If you read Joshua then the low plain of Achor was the place where the Israelites needed to remove detestable things from their community in order to obtain Jehovah's blessing once again.

Joshua had to do a careful search to find what the detestable thing was.

They had to refine themselves.

Which brings me back once again to Hosea Chapter 8.

Vultures are circling over God's people
Who have broken my covenant
and defied my revelation.



Luke 17:37
And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?"
And He said to them,
"Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."


All of this leads me back to the same question I often ask.

If the holy covenant has been undermined then what do faithfull Christians need to do in order to prevail and act effectively?


Daniel 11:31
And there will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant [feature].
“And they will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation.
32 “And those who are acting wickedly against [the] covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively.





In Christ

abe


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ablebodiedman
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Post: #5
RE: the low plain of A´chor

Hosea 8:1-3 (The Message)
"Blow the trumpet! Sound the alarm! Vultures are circling over God's people
Who have broken my covenant
and defied my revelation.
Predictably, Israel cries out, 'My God! We know you!'
But they don't act like it.
Israel will have nothing to do with what's good,
and now the enemy is after them.

If you did read the account of Joshua in the low plain of Achor then his concern was that the enemy had defeated him and he made an inquiry of Jehovah to understand why that happened.

Israel had a detestable thing in their camp which in turn allowed the enemy to go after them.

Daniel and Hosea both mention a broken covenant and also the account in Joshua about the low plain of Achor.

If we are living in the end times then the covenant which should presently be valid is the new covenant inaugurated by Jesus Christs death.

If this new covenant has indeed been undermined then we are in a similar situation to Joshua.

Predictably, Israel cries out, 'My God! We know you!'
But they don't act like it.
Israel will have nothing to do with what's good,
and now the enemy is after them.


If the new covenant has indeed been undermined by a detestable thing and it is allowed to continue then the final situation of the matter is desolation by the enemy.

Daniel 12
And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.

If those who are knowing their God will act effectively and prevail then what will indicate their success?

I personally think it will have a great deal to do with the holy covenant.


Daniel 12
And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Does this mean the constant feature will be restored and the disgusting thing removed?

Will those who act effectively and prevail be the ones who accomplish this?


With that said now please carefully consider what Jehovah told Joshua in the low plain of Achor:


Joshua 7:12-13
The back is what they will turn before their enemies, because they have become a thing devoted to destruction. I shall not prove to be with YOU again unless YOU annihilate the thing devoted to destruction out of YOUR midst. 13 Get up! Sanctify the people, and you must say, ‘Sanctify yourselves tomorrow, for this is what Jehovah the God of Israel has said: “A thing devoted to destruction is in your midst, O Israel. You will not be able to rise up against your enemies until YOU people have removed the thing devoted to destruction from YOUR midst.

and

compare to Daniel:


Daniel 11
“And he will actually go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will have to go back and will give consideration to those leaving the holy covenant. 31 And there will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant [feature].
“And they will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation.



I think the low plain of Achor has a great deal to do with end time prophecy.



In Christ


abe


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04-24-2010 11:39 AM
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Fugitive1
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Post: #6
RE: the low plain of A´chor

ablebodiedman Wrote:
Certainly seems like an end time prophecy.

Hosea 2:14
“‘Therefore here I am prevailing upon her, and I will cause her to go into the wilderness, and I will speak to her heart. 15 And I will give her her vineyards from then onward, and the low plain of A´chor as an entrance to hope; and she will certainly answer there as in the days of her youth and as in the day of her coming up out of the land of Egypt. 16 And it must occur in that day,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that you will call [me] My husband, and you will no longer call me My owner.’


In the wilderness - (Rev 12)
Speak to her heart - (fed in the wilderness)
Call me my husband - (the Bride?)


Hi Abe,

I find your discussion on the "low plain of A´chor" very interesting. Nice post!

Fugitive1

05-03-2010 07:40 PM
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observant
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Post: #7
RE: the low plain of A´chor

Abe,

Quote:
In the wilderness - (Rev 12)
Speak to her heart - (fed in the wilderness)
Call me my husband - (the Bride?)


The first couple of chapters Song of Solomon have a similar message.

The location of A'chor is also tied symbolicly to the inner chambers of the temple and a place of nourishment.


Consider the lilies, how they grow; they do not toil, they do not spin. And yet I say to you that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Luk 12:27
05-04-2010 11:35 AM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #8
RE: the low plain of A´chor

ablebodiedman Wrote:

I think the low plain of Achor has a great deal to do with end time prophecy.



In Christ


abe



Daniel 11
And they will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation

2nd Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

Joshua 7:12
I shall not prove to be with YOU again unless YOU annihilate the thing devoted to destruction out of YOUR midst.

Ezekiel 43:8
by their putting their threshold with my threshold and their doorpost beside my doorpost, with the wall between me and them. And they defiled my holy name by their detestable things that they did, so that I went exterminating them in my anger. 9 Now let them remove their fornication and the carcasses of their kings far from me, and I shall certainly reside in the midst of them to time indefinite.

Daniel 11:32
“And those who are acting wickedly against [the] covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively.


Daniel 12:11
“And from the time that the constant [feature] has been removed and there has been a placing of the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.


Joshua 7:12
I shall not prove to be with YOU again unless YOU annihilate the thing devoted to destruction out of YOUR midst.

Daniel 12:12
“Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!


Revelation 17:12
“And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].”

Ezekiel 43:9
Now let them remove their fornication and the carcasses of their kings far from me, and I shall certainly reside in the midst of them to time indefinite.


I see profound connections in all theses scriptures which I believe should be very relevant for the real Saints living at the time of the end.

Are you really a Saint?


they will prevail and act effectively


In Christ

abe


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ablebodiedman
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Post: #9
RE: the low plain of A´chor

Isaiah 48
1 Hear this, O house of Jacob, YOU who are calling yourselves by the name of Israel and who have come forth from the very waters of Judah, YOU who are swearing by the name of Jehovah and who make mention even of the God of Israel, not in truth and not in righteousness. 2 For they have called themselves as being from the holy city, and upon the God of Israel they have supported themselves, Jehovah of armies being his name.


Isaiah 48
20 Go forth, YOU people, out of Babylon! Run away from the Chal·de´ans. Tell forth even with the sound of a joyful cry, cause this to be heard. Make it to go forth to the extremity of the earth. Say: “Jehovah has repurchased his servant Jacob. 21 And they did not get thirsty when he was making them walk even through devastated places. Water out of the rock he caused to flow forth for them, and he proceeded to split a rock that the water might stream forth.”
22 “There is no peace,” Jehovah has said, “for the wicked ones.”



The House of Jacob (12 sons?) called themselves as being from the holy city!

Go forth, YOU people, out of Babylon! Run away!

Isaiah chapter 48 starts out a little weird and ends with some difficult to understand commandments.

Has the commandment above been historically fulfilled.

When did Gods people ever run from Babylon into the wilderness?

Or could this be an answer to the question often asked about Revelation:


Revelation 18
4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues.

Get out, but ........ go where?

The wilderness?

If we are in this wilderness then there most definitely is a hope to enter the promised land.

Is the Holy City therefore connected to Babylon the Great?

Is that what Isaiah Chapter 48 is implying?


Are those in the wilderness repurchased?

Jehovah has repurchased his servant Jacob


Revelation 12
14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.


If we are in the wilderness then: Tell forth even with the sound of a joyful cry, cause this to be heard


In Christ

abe


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ablebodiedman
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Post: #10
RE: the low plain of A´chor

So.............


Does anyone know whether it has been historically fulfilled?

To the best of my limited knowledge regarding Babylons destruction the Jews were still captive when the Persians arrived and did not flee Babylon but were later given permission to leave.

When did Gods people ever run from Babylon into the wilderness?

anyone?


In Christ

abe


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ablebodiedman
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RE: the low plain of A´chor

Ezekiel Chapter 20 parallels the wilderness sentiments already described in the many scriptures above.

A condemnation of God's people:


Ezekiel 20:4
“Will you judge them? Will you judge [them], O son of man? Cause them to know the detestable things of their forefathers.

Then much of the rest of Chapter 20 describes the past efforts to bring Israel out of Egypt's influence into the wilderness and eventually into the promised land where they transgressed again.

Scattered once again throughout the nations.

The concluding verses of Chapter 20 explains that the whole procedure will be undertaken again however, this time it suggests there will be success through a more effective cleansing and judgment.

Ezekiel 20:36
“‘Just as I put myself on judgment with YOUR forefathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I shall put myself on judgment with YOU,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. 37 ‘And I will make YOU pass under the rod and bring YOU into the bond of the covenant. 38 And I will clean out from YOU the revolters and the transgressors against me, for out of the land of their alien residence I shall bring them forth, but onto the soil of Israel they will not come; and YOU people will have to know that I am Jehovah.’


Notice once again that his covenant is the issue!

The refinement and cleansing is likened to a fire in the final verses of Ezekiel Chapter 20:


Ezekiel 20:47
‘Hear the word of Jehovah. This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “Here I am setting a fire ablaze against you, and it must devour in you every still-moist tree and every dry tree. The kindling flame will not be extinguished, and by it all faces must be scorched from [the] south to the north. 48 And all those of flesh must see that I myself, Jehovah, have set it afire, so that it will not be extinguished.”’”


The right question to ask is whether these scriptures might have application to the the end time.

Will there be people in the end time in the wilderness away from the influences of idolatry?

Revelation 12:14
But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.


Once these people have been fed will they then be tested and refined?


Revelation 12:17
And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed.


Matthew 3:12
That one will baptize YOU people with holy spirit and with fire. 12 His winnowing shovel is in his hand, and he will completely clean up his threshing floor, and will gather his wheat into the storehouse, but the chaff he will burn up with fire that cannot be put out.”


See the parallel in Ezekiel Chapter 20?

I myself, Jehovah, have set it afire, so that it will not be extinguished
(fire that cannot be put out)


Will this fire actually cause a cleansing and separation of the wheat from the chaff in order to be brought in line with the covenant?


Jesus Christ seemed to think so:


Luke 12:49
“I came to start a fire on the earth, and what more is there for me to wish if it has already been lighted? 50 Indeed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am being distressed until it is finished! 51 Do YOU imagine I came to give peace on the earth? No, indeed, I tell YOU, but rather division. 52 For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against [her] mother, mother-in-law against [her] daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against [her] mother-in-law.”


Jesus Christ points out that The Fire has everything to do with his baptism.


If we are indeed being fed in the wilderness then I personally think it would be a good idea to very properly understand what Jesus Christs baptism has to do with the covenant.

If we are in the wilderness I believe this is essential to passing under the rod and eventually entering the promised land.


Ezekiel 20:37
‘And I will make YOU pass under the rod and bring YOU into the bond of the covenant. 38 And I will clean out from YOU the revolters and the transgressors against me, for out of the land of their alien residence I shall bring them forth, but onto the soil of Israel they will not come; and YOU people will have to know that I am Jehovah.’


Suggesting that some of the people in the wilderness may not be taken along into the promised land.


Luke 17:34
I tell YOU, In that night two [men] will be in one bed; the one will be taken along, but the other will be abandoned. 35 There will be two [women] grinding at the same mill; the one will be taken along, but the other will be abandoned.”


I think it is a good idea to read Ezekiel Chapter 20 and all the other scriptures mentioned in the above thread which have reference to being in the wilderness.


In Christ

abe


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Micah
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Post: #12
RE: the low plain of A´chor

ablebodiedman Wrote:
See the parallel in Ezekiel Chapter 20?

I myself, Jehovah, have set it afire, so that it will not be extinguished
(fire that cannot be put out)


Will this fire actually cause a cleansing and separation of the wheat from the chaff in order to be brought in line with the covenant?


When God says "a fire that cannot be put out", is He talking about one that burns for all eternity, or a fire so intense, man will be unable to extinguish it?


"Liberty is the right of every human creature, as soon as he breathes the vital air; and no human law can deprive him of that right which he derives from the law of nature. -John Wesley

06-05-2010 06:36 PM
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ablebodiedman
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Post: #13
RE: the low plain of A´chor

Micah Wrote:

ablebodiedman Wrote:
See the parallel in Ezekiel Chapter 20?

I myself, Jehovah, have set it afire, so that it will not be extinguished
(fire that cannot be put out)


Will this fire actually cause a cleansing and separation of the wheat from the chaff in order to be brought in line with the covenant?


When God says "a fire that cannot be put out", is He talking about one that burns for all eternity, or a fire so intense, man will be unable to extinguish it?



Micah,

I personally think the fire will be an understanding about the Holy Covenant and the baptism required to enter into and abide by the rules of that covenant which speaks to an individuals conscience in a way that causes such strong convictions that it can easily break the bonds inside a family unit.

I think the understanding will force an individual decision that determines whether that persons name is written in the book of life .......... or not.

I think the decision will have everlasting results.

I also don't think ignorance or fence sitting will be a viable alternative to making a decision unless of course that person has a severe mental affliction.


So examining the; "where to next" question in my opinion is very essential.


In Christ

abe


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Micah
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Post: #14
RE: the low plain of A´chor

ablebodiedman Wrote:
Micah,

I personally think the fire will be an understanding about the Holy Covenant and the baptism required to enter into and abide by the rules of that covenant which speaks to an individuals conscience in a way that causes such strong convictions that it can easily break the bonds inside a family unit.

I think the understanding will force an individual decision that determines whether that persons name is written in the book of life .......... or not.


Philipians 4:3
Revelation 13: 8

Quote:
So examining the; "where to next" question in my opinion is very essential.


Not that worried about it, to tell you honestly.


"Liberty is the right of every human creature, as soon as he breathes the vital air; and no human law can deprive him of that right which he derives from the law of nature. -John Wesley

06-06-2010 01:26 AM
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ablebodiedman
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RE: the low plain of A´chor

Micah Wrote:

ablebodiedman Wrote:
Micah,

I personally think the fire will be an understanding about the Holy Covenant and the baptism required to enter into and abide by the rules of that covenant which speaks to an individuals conscience in a way that causes such strong convictions that it can easily break the bonds inside a family unit.

I think the understanding will force an individual decision that determines whether that persons name is written in the book of life .......... or not.


Philipians 4:3
Revelation 13: 8

Quote:
So examining the; "where to next" question in my opinion is very essential.


Not that worried about it, to tell you honestly.


Micah,

I think that being judged by God the Almighty is a fearsome thing that I worry about constantly.

Wonder if he is paying attention to this forum which seems dedicated to Christian discussion and research?

Malachi 3:16
At that time those in fear of Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance began to be written up before him for those in fear of Jehovah and for those thinking upon his name.

“But who will be putting up with the day of his coming, and who will be the one standing when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen.


In Christ

abe


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