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Genesis - the beginning of Truth .
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Aurora
And then there was Morning .. a New Day


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Post: #1
Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Hello friends ... :heartbeat:

as some of you might remember a few years ago I had done some research on Genesis to see if it was possible to understand this account in a more symbolic way than just accepting the usual literal understanding of it.

I would like to post my research here for those who maybe are still interested in looking into these thing but also give all the new friends an oppertunity to maybe glean some insight and open up there minds to greater possibilities.

I will try to seperate each creative day into it's own post so it won't be to tiring to read thru ;)

For many many years I have been praying and searching for
answers concerning the Genesis account as to why Christianity
cannot agree with science even though there is no disagreement , IMHO .
This is only another way of looking in a deeper way at Jehovah's words and in no way should influence ones faith or belief.
This is only submitted as an alternate thought and left up to
each individual for consideration as Jehovah always has the last word on a matter....

According to the Bible we are encouraged to ponder on the
things we read to get a better understanding of it.
I have done this for many decades and the more I read and understand the harder it gets for me to explain it to others.

We are always reminded that GODs way of thinking is not mans
way of thinking.
Why, because He is a Spirit and he thinks like a spirit.
Time is irrelevent.
Why then do we go on trying to explain everything in a literal way ?

Since we have the tools ( Books ) etc. available to discern symbols like for instance the trees (symbolizing individuals, rulers, and Kingdoms ) or Beasts ( symbolizing wicket men, rulers and so on ) in a figurative, symbolic or prophetic way, isn't it possible to go back, lets say to the creation period, and see if we can get ( not another understanding of it ) but an additional understanding of it.....or maybe even more .

What I would like to do is take each day of creation, break them
down into ( Figurative, Prophetic, Spiritual and Symbolic views ...) showing that these 6 days of creation have a past, present and future application in more than one way.

That the Days of Creation not only depict the coming about of all created things spanning millions of years in a literal /Physical way but also specifically deal with the coming about of the Spiritual Man in GODs Image. ( 6 days - 6 thousand years of mankinds history that it took to create him ) .

Everything that I would like to post concerning these thoughts
will be backed up by scripture so that there is no confussion and I will also be using the Insight on the Scriptures books so it will be easier to find the understanding of passages.... because my time is limited it might take a couple of days to get back to anyone with a response, but I'll do my best....

It has been a constant burden living with these thoughts and not have anyone to share them with. I hope and pray that I can discuss my thoughts with everyone that is interested on this forum and not be looked upon as an apostate or evil slave.

Since we all know that our GOD Jehovah is a Spirit, we need first of all realize that he does not think on human terms nor is every statement that He makes and that is found in the
bible supposed to be taken literally.
We all know that, I hope....

So how do we go about finding out just what GOD is talking
about ?

Well, like I said before, I believe it's by praying and asking for discerment and by taking all the information that is available to us especially the signs and symbols that the FDS have already made known to us in the Insight Books, and Bibles and using these to open up sealed information in the scriptures.

Now, I want to make it clear that these are at the moment only
my humble opinions not facts but I pray that we can come to some kind of conclussion somewhere down the road.

So, lets get started ....

1 Genesis : In (the) beginning God created the heavens and the
earth.

My first impression of this statement which Jehovah makes is that this includes and concludes creation from start to finish in a literal sence .
for me this includes every living thing.... both in the Heavens ( angels ) and in the earth (Humans ) and every other living thing ( plants and animals, etc....

This one statement is a ( complete History ) of creation from beginning to end.( IMHO )... it encompasses an un estimated time frame .

But now comes the part that confusses some and makes others
wonder.
Jehovah goes on to explain each individual day of creation.

The question is: should we be looking at these
events only in a literal way or do we try and understand it
in a symbolic/spiritual sense since it is a Spirit explaining the
next 6 days of creation step by step in other words literall 6 days or symbolic days each day as counting 1000 years.

Is it possible that we also can take these 6 days of creation
that Jehovah is talking about and use them to explain that
this was the first time that GOD turned his attention to
mankind and chose of someone to represent Him and
His statutes.

Using the Insight to the Scriptures books, I will be making a list of words that have symbolic meanings because we will be coming across these expressions that Jehovah uses when he is talking about his creations over and over again and it will make it easier to look them up.

I will be using these Bibles for cross references:
the NWT, NASB, the KJ and the NLT which is the
Tyndale
edition which is accepted by the WT org.

Also, I will be using the Insight on the Scripture books if possible to understand certain symbols we come across and also the Webster Encyclopadia for word defenitions....

I just want to remind everyone that we are looking for symbolic, figurative and prophetic thoughts.

Genesis 1:2

NWT: Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there
was darkness upon the surface of (the) watery deep.

NASB: The earth was formless and void
and darkness was over the surface of the deep.

KJ: And the earth was without form, and
void, and darkness was on the face of the deep.

NLT: The earth was empty, a formless
mass cloaked in darkness.

The expressions of Formless, waste, void and darkness will be
explained one at a time( if possible) or else the post will
get to long.

Webster:
Waste: an uninhabited or sparsely settled
region, wilderness, barren land worthless for
cultivation....etc...

Webster:
Void : containing nothing, unoccupied with
work or business, not producing any effect, of no legal force
or effect..etc...

Formless : Jer 4:23

To get an understanding of how Jehovah
expresses himself concerning people we need to read also
22-28.

Formless = foolish, not taking note, unwise
sons, having no understanding, doing bad, no knowledge in
doing good.

Waste : Deut 29:23 (read all
of 23-29)


NWT: does not use the word waste but says....
so that it's whole land will not be sown, nor sprout, nor will
any vegetation spring up in it.

NASB: ....a burning waste, unsown and
unproductive and no grass grows in it.

Isa: 24:1

NWT: Look! Jehovah is emptying the
land
and laying it a waste and he has twisted
the face of it and scattered its inhabitants.

NASB: Behold, the LORD lays the earth
waste
, devastates it, distorts its surface and
scatters its inhabitants.


More references concerning Formless and (waste or void) ,
consider all renderings...

(Isa : 5:6 Isa : 45:19)
( Eze: 26: 20 + 35: 3) read all of 35..


Earth and Darkness ).
Earth in a Spiritual sense :

( Ps 22:27 )+( Ps 47: 1-3 ) All people, all families of
nations.
( Ps 2:10 ) the earth has judges.
( Ps 33:8 ) earth = inhabitants.
( Ps 50:1-4 ) earth is summoned
( Ps 66:1-4 ) earth shouts and sings
( Ps 76:8-9 ) earth feared and was still
(1 Ch 16:23-31 ) earth sings to the lord, is told to tell of
Gods glory.
( Job 12:8 ) the earth teaches. read all of 1-10
( Job 20:27 ) the earth rises up against him.

Darkness in a Spiritual sense :

( Ps 82:5 ) no understanding
( Ps 88:10-12 ) land of forgetfulness
( Ps 107:10-14 ) dweling in darkness, shadow of death,
prisoners of misery and chains.
( Isa 5:20 ) darkness = evil and bitter
( Isa 8:22 ) gloom and anguish
( Isa 9:2 ) those who live in a dark land
( Isa 42:7 ) prisoners in dungeons
( Isa 45:7 ) darkness is calamity
( Jer 2:31 ) thick darkness = wilderness
( Mic 3:6-7 ) without vision and divination

There are many more references but these are the ones that
touched my heart the most.

Comp Jehremiah 4:23 with Genesis 1:2

I looked on the earth, and it was formless and void:
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills moved to and fro.
I looked, and behold, there was no man,
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness
And it's cities were pulled down
Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.
For thus says the LORD,
The whole land shall be a desolation.
Yet I will not execute a complete destruction.
For this earth shall mourn
And the heavens above be dark,
Because I have spoken, I have purposed,
And I will not change My mind, nor will I turn from it.

Before I begin I would like you to look at the explanation in
the Insight to the Scripture books concerning the expression of ( Heaven ) on pg. 1061. For those of you that don't have these books I will sumerize the explanation.

Heaven : Representing Rulership

Ruling powers that are exalted or lifted up above their
subject peoples. ( Isa 14:12 )

New Heaven and New Earth :

The connection of the "heavens" with ruling
power aids in understanding the meaning of the expression "
new heavens and a new earth" found at Isa 65:17 ; 66:22 and
quoted by the apostle peter at 2 Peter 3:13. Observing such
relationship, M'Clintock and Strong's Cyclopedia ( 1891, Vol
IV, pg 122 ) comments : " In Isa 1xv, 17, a new heaven and a
new earth signify a new government, new kingdom, new people...
Even as the " earth " can refer to a
society of people ( Ps 96:1 see earth ) so too,
" heavens" can symbolize the superior
ruling power or government over such "earth".

So, now that we have found a symbolic and alternative meaning
to these and before mentioned expressions, lets go back to the
Genesis account and look at this scripture again.

Genesis 1.
In (the ) beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

1st alternate view : God creates the heavens and earth
in a literal way.

2cnd alternate view : God creates the heavens ( spirit
sons ) and the earth ( physical beings ).

3rd alternate view : God creates the heavens
( ruling powers exalted and lifted up above )and the earth (
their subject peoples ).

Taking the 2cnd and the 3rd alternate views
into consideration and using the symbolic expressions, we can
come to this understanding of what the first few sentences
could mean.
Now the earth proved to be formless and waste or ( void ) and
there was darkness upon the watery deep,

Ps. 53:1-6
God has looked down from heaven upon the
sons of men to see if there is anyone who understands, who
seeks after GOD.

(Formless, waste ,void, darkness ).
Now the people proved to be foolish and unwise, having no
understanding and no knowledge in doing good, continually
doing bad and not taking note. The people and nations were in
( darkness ), they were bitter and evil and had no
understanding of God. No vision or divination, a land of
forgetfulness and deep gloom. People and nations allienated
from God.

Jer 4:23 + Ecc 4:1
Jehovah speaks:
Every one of them has turned aside, together they have become
corrupt and there is no one who does good, not even one and
there is no one to comfort them.


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



10-29-2008 06:38 PM
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Aurora
And then there was Morning .. a New Day


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Post: #2
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Gen 2:1

Now it's time to look for the understanding of, the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters or moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.

According to the Insight to the Scripture books pg.1021 under the heading, Spirit used on behalf of God's Servants we read as follows in part:

First : A principal operation of God's spirit involves it's ability to inform, to illuminate, to reveal things.

Second : This illuminating power of the spirit is particularly notable in prophecy etc...men were born along by Holy spirit --- conveyed, moved, and guided by Gods active
force. ( 2 Pet 1: 20,21 ),(2 Sa 23:2 ),( Zec 7:12 ),
( Lu 1:67; 2:25-35 ),( Ac 1:16; 28:25 )
see also prophesy and prophet.

The spirit operates on their minds and hearts to motivate and guide them according to Gods purpose. It acts as a driving force that moves and impels them.

Pg.1020 Spirit is distinguished from power, we read as follows in part:

God's invisible active force by which he
accomplishes his divine purpose and will.
The spirit is a force, an energy that is projected and excerted on persons or things and may be defined as an influence that produces or tends to produce motion or change of motion.

Taking these explanations into consideration we can come to the understanding that God's spirit or active force was moving on the ( waters ) peoples, to motivate them to seek the wisdom, knowledge, and righteousness of God.

Now, I would like you to look at ( Jer 5 )
which reads as follows:

NWT : Go roving about in the streets of Jerusalem and see, now, and know, and seek for yourselfs in her public squares whether you can find a man, whether there exists anyone doing justice, anyone seeking faithfulness and I shall forgive her.

NASB : Roam to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, And look now and take note, And seek in her open squares, If you can find a man, If there is one who does justice, who seeks truth, Then I will pardon her.

Then we have the following:

( 2 Ch 16:9 ) For the eyes of the LORD move to and fro throughout the earth that He may strongly support those whose heart is completely His.

According to the Insight to the Scripture Books ( PG. 789 ) concerning the eyes of the LORD it states following in part.

Jehovah's eyes: One expression indicates his watchfulness and loving care towards his people, His eyes are on the righteous ones ( 1 Pet 3:12 ).

Describing God's observation of the actions of all men, ( Jer 32:19 ) wrote that His eyes are opened upon all the ways of the sons of men, in order to give to each one according to his ways.

After taking all of these explanations and expressions into
consideration we can come to this alternate view.

Because of the nations being in spiritual darkness and no one was taking note or doing good, Jehovah's spirit or active force moved or motivated certain individuals to search for Him and His righteousness.


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



10-29-2008 06:49 PM
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Aurora
And then there was Morning .. a New Day


Posts: 185
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Post: #3
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Genesis 1:3

Then God said, "Let there be light ; and there was light.

It is obvious to most of us that the expression of Light refers in a literal way to the brightness of the sun, moon and stars...but we are also aware that these expressions can refer to other things....

Using the Insight to the Scripture Books pg.253 under the heading Light, and The source of ( Light ) , we read in part :
The scriptures repeatedly associate light with it's creator, ( Ps 104:1,2 ) With dignity and splendor you have clothed yourself, enrapping yourself with light as with a garment and
( Eze 1:27,28 ) describing
Jehovah
as something like the glow of electrum, like fire all around inside thereof etc..

Then there is the expression of, God is light and there is no darkness at all in union with him. ( Jo 1:5 ).
He is righteous, upright, and Holy Deu 32:4; Rev 4:8 , having nothing in common with the degrading and unclean practices commonly linked with darkness. ( comp. Job 24:14-16; 2Co 6:14; 1Th 5:7,8 ).

Therefore persons who are walking in the darkness by manifesting hatred for their brothers and who are not practicing the truth could never be in union with him, ( 1 Jo 1:6; 2:9-11 ).

Pg. 254 Light and the Son of God ,During his earthly ministry Jesus Christ was a light, furnishing spiritual enlightenment concerning God's purposes and will, for those who would gain divine favor.
( Jo 9:5; comp. Isa 42:6,7; 61 :1,2; Lu 4:18-21 ).
Followers of Christ become Lights.
Those who exercised faith in Christ Jesus as " the light of the world" and became his followers themselves came to be "sons of light" ( Jo 3:21; 8:12; 12:35,36,46 ).
They made known to others the requirements for gaining Gods favor and life, doing so "in the light" that is,
openly ( Mt 5:14,16 comp. Ro 2:17-24 )...

"The fruitage of the light consists of every sort of goodness and righteousness and truth". It therefore exposes the baseness of the shamefull works belonging to darkness, ( fornication, uncleanness of every kind, greediness, and the like ) practiced by "the sons of disobedience" ( Eph 5:3-18; comp. 1 Th 5:4-9 ).

Figurative use: pg.255 :
As the light of the sun is clearly observable, thus Jehovah's adverse Judgements are obvious.
This is aluded to at Hosea 6:5 " The judgements upon you will be as the light that goes forth. " A bright prospect, such as salvation or deliverance, is at times refered to under the figure of light. ( Es 8:16;ps 97:11; Isa 30:26; Mic 7:8,9 ).

Proverbs 4:18 states that the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, that shines brighter and brighter until the full day...Isa 9:2 The people who walk in darkness will see a great light; Those who live in a dark land, the light will shine on them.

Isa 42:6-7 I am the LORD, I have called you in righteousness, I will also hold you by the hand and watch over you, And appoint you as a covenant to the people. To open blind eyes, To bring prisoners from the dungeon and those who dwell in darkness from the prison....

Isa 42:16 I will lead the blind by a way they do not know, in paths they do not know I will guide them. I will make darkness into light before them etc....

Other scriptures to read concerning Light :
Isa 51:4 justice for a light ,
Isa 59:9 Light is brightness
Isa 60:1-4 Light has come, glory of the Lord
has risen upon you.

Job 30:26 Light = Good

Ps 37:5-7 [u]brings forth righteousness as light and judgements as noonday.
Ps 97:11 light is sown as seed for the righteous....
Ps 112 tells of the prosperity of the One who fears the Lord, and that the light arises in the darkness for the upright, ( 4 ).

Then we have Job 24:13 Others have been with those who rebel against the light: they do not want to know it's ways nor abide in it's path..
Read all of Job 24.

Jehovah chose to bring spiritual light to
the people sitting in darkness
.

A choosing of a people , giving birth to his servants to bring
about righteousness, justice, wisdom and knowledge.

And all of this was good in the sight of God....


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



10-29-2008 07:01 PM
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Aurora
And then there was Morning .. a New Day


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Post: #4
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Next, I would like us to look at the explanation of the word
Separate
:

The word Separate in the Webster Dictionary is as follows:

To divide or keep apart by placing a barrier between, to go into different directions, to set apart....

Webster Thesaurus:

To part, sever, sunder, divide, allot, dispense, share, distribute, disconnect, split, isolate, segregate, different, distinct, independent...

As we read earlier from scripture, Light represents: righteousness, goodness, wisdom, knowledge of God, illumination, understanding, compassion , Love and Life...etc

Darkness is the opposite of light , it represents :
Evil, no understanding of God, forgetfulness, no divination, a wilderness, calamity and Death...etc

We have part of the statement in Genesis 1:4 that says
: and God separated the light from the darkness.

it goes on to state in Genesis 1:5
God called the light Day, and the darkness He called night.
And there was evening and there was morning, one day.....

As most of us know, Jehovah's time table is somewhat different than our own and we understand that this
expression of one day can mean units of time in varying lengths.

The Insight to Scripture books state under the heading Day, pg.594 in part:

The entire period of the six time units or creative days dedicated to the preperation of planet earth is summed up in one all-embracing day.
This is a History of the heavens and the earth in the time of
their being created, in the day
that
Jehovah God
made earth and heaven..

So we come to understand that Day is here represented to mean time period. but it also says that Day is light, and night is darkness and these were created or brought about over a period of time..

1Kings 8:53 Separated peoples for His inheritance.
Ezra 6:21 Separated themselves from the impurity of the nations.
Nehemiah 9:2 Separated themselves from all foreigners.

If we then take these expressions into consideration we can come to understand that Jehovahs Spirit was working upon the nations and people, to separate the Righteous ( rep. light and day ) from the unrighteous or wicket ( rep. darkness and night ). And this was done over a certain period of time. One creative day...

The expression of evening can also be considered as
meaning unrighteousness and the expression of
Morning
can be looked at as meaning righteousness.

So this statement ( imho ), can also be describing the people
and the condition of them at that time ... IMHO ;) :heartbeat:


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



10-29-2008 07:09 PM
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Aurora
And then there was Morning .. a New Day


Posts: 185
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Post: #5
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Genesis 1: 6-8

Then God said; Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.
God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was an evening and there was a morning, a second day.

Insight to the Scripture Books ( pg.786 3rd par.
) states in part :

In some cases it is not sound reasoning to rule out a figurative use of this word, Thus at Job 37:18 Elihu asks concerning God; With him can you beat out the skies hard like a molten mirror?
That the literal beating out of some solid celestial vault is not meant can be seen from the fact that the word skies here, comes from a word (sha'chad) also rendered film of dust or clouds (
Isa 40:15;Ps 18:11
), and in view of the nebulous quality of that which is beaten out, it is clear that the Bible writer is only figuratively comparing the skies to a metal mirror whose burnished face gives off a bright reflection, comp. Daniel 12:3
In the Psalms the expanse, along with the heavens is said to tell of Gods works and praise. ( Ps 19:1 )

As we came to understand from earlier scriptures, these Heavens
also represented those in superior positions ruling over us.

And so we have a separating keeping apart, going in different directions ) of the waters, nations and peoples ) by these heavens, superior authorities ).

Under the heading Superior Authorities in the Insight to the Scripture Books pg.1045 ) it states in part :

An expression at Romans 13:1 designating human governmental authorities: Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.
The governmental authorities can be termed Gods public servants in the sense that they provide beneficial services ( Ro 13:6,7 )

Concerning Jehovah's Heavens, Insight to the Scripture Books states in part on pg. 1061

Upon the Israelites return to their homeland, they entered into a new system of things. Back in Jerusalem, Zerubbabel ( a descendant of David ) served as governor, and Joshua as high priest.
In harmony with Jehovah's purpose, this new governmental arrangement, or new heavens directed and supervised the subject people of Jehovah, ( 2Ch 36:23; Hag 1: 1,14 )

The question is what was it that separated these
individuals from each other
.

As we know God chose and gave laws, statutes and commandments to certain individuals, and these in turn were to separate them from the rest of society.

Above the expanse and Below the expanse can in this case signify the righteous and unrighteous acts of individual people or nations, those that were searching and take note of God and those that were going in a different direction, doing their own thing, or rejecting him..


The word expanse :

WD : A wide, open stretch.

WTNID : something that is spread out typically over a wide area, an extensive and unu. unbroken stretch of land and sea.

IttSB pg. 785 : states that God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse.

Another expression that came to my mind when thinking upon the
word expanse and division was ( wide chasm ) and so I looked it up in the WTNID and this is what I found :

A marked esp. irreconcilable division, separation, or difference.
One due to a marked opposition of attitude, opinion, belief
, or loyalty.

So here we have an explanation as to what this expanse was trying to cause, (a division or wide open chasm ) as in making a difference, a separation of individuals in opposing attitudes and beliefs.

At Isaiah 51:10 we read : Was it not You who dried up the sea, The waters of the great deep; Who made the depths of the sea a pathway For the redeemed to cross over ?

At Luke 16:19-31 we find the story of Lazarus and the rich man and the great chasm that was between them which no one was able to cross.

Could these be similies or figurative stories to this expanse that is mentioned in Genesis ?

Could this be a separating of those that will inherit a righteous or heavenly ( spiritual ) life compared to those who will be separated from Jehovah ?

Daniel 12:3 those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever...

Other scriptures that mention the waters ...

Rev 14:1-3 voice from heaven, sound of many waters,
Rev 17:14-16 waters are peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues,
Rev 19:5-7 voice of great multitude, sounds of many waters,
Amos 9:5-7 builds upper chambers in the heavens, calls for the waters.
Eze 1:23-25 sound of wings, sound of abundant waters, sound of an army camp.
Jer 10:12-14 tumult of waters in the heavens.

These scriptures describe conditions in and from heaven but not above the heavens, so these in respect signify the condition of those ruling over us in Heavenly places of authority and it's subjects here on earth.

Then we also have this expression to take into consideration :
the waters above the expanse...heaven.

Ps 148:4 Praise Him highest heavens, --- the waters that are above the heavens.

This is the only scripture that I found sofar concerning the waters above the heavens and would signify the spiritual heavens and abode of God and His special inheritance as mentioned in revelations.

The literal heavens of Jehovah, ( the Superior Authorities above us ) separate mankind
through Jehovahs laws and statutes from those that will and won't inherit an approved state ... and are symbolize by this expanse or chasm .

I have also found an explanation concerning the Heavens in the Book of Isaiah's prophesy pg.358 which states the following:

again employing vivid imagery, Isaiah goes on to say
" all those of the army of the heavens must rot away.
And the heavens must be rolled up, just like a book scroll; and their
army will shrivel away, just as a leafage shrivels off the vine and like a shriveld fig off the fig tree." ( Isaiah 34:4 ).

The expression " all those of the army of the heavens" does
not mean the literal stars and planets. Verses 5 and 6 speak
of a sword of execution being drenched with blood in those "
heavens ". Hence, this must be symbolic of something in the
human realm.
(1 Chorithians 15:50) Because of their loftiness as superior authorities, the governments of mankind are likend to heavens ruling over earthly human society. (Romans 13:1-4)

So "the army of the heavens" represent the combined armies of
these governments of mankind.


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



10-29-2008 09:09 PM
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Aurora
And then there was Morning .. a New Day


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Post: #6
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Genesis 1:9-10

Then God said " Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear " and it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas: and God saw that it was good...

Again, I will be using the Insight on the Scriptures books
and the bible to try to find an understanding of the expression of dry land and seas.

I will also be looking at words that correspond to dry land and seas such as: soil, dirt, ground, earth, sand, clay, dust etc.....waters, waves, floods, rivers..etc.... and looking at the metaphoric and figurative and symbolic use of these words and the impression that one receives when applying them to mankind.

Clay :
Soft and pliable when wet, but hard when dry.
Clay affords little or no protection...
Used in a Metaphoric way concerning mankind, ( clay ( MAN ) can be molded and made into any shape desirable and used in different ways. Comp.( Job 4:19 ; 10:9, Isa 45:9; 64:8, Jer 18:6 )

Earth :
Refers to ground, soil, surface, country, territory, land, people of the entire globe.
Yielding sustenance, being able to transform itself like clay
under a seal, ( Job 38:14 ) Earth is also symbolically used to denote the firmer, more
stable elements of mankind.
Metaphorical use: ( read all of Ps 104 esp. 27- 29 ).( read Isa 44 esp.24,25 ), ( read Malachi 3 esp.9-12 ).

"Earthly" can also have an undesirable connotation, meaning, " corrupt " or " in opposition to the spirit. "( Php 3:19; Jas 3:15 ).

Sand : Jehovah God, in His great wisdom, has "set the sand as the boundary for the sea, an indefinitely lasting regulation that it cannot pass over." ( Jer 5:22 ).

Unlike solid rock, sand yields and thus absorbs the impact of the waves that pound against it. The force of the raging waves is diffused and dissipated, so that the sea is kept in check.

Waves : Roaring seas, foaming, tossing seas or waters.
Metaphoric use concerning people :
( Ps 65:7 tumult of the peoples ),
( Jer 51:55 their waves will roar like many waters, the tumult of their voices sounds forth ),
( Isa 57:20 wicket are like the tossing sea, cannot be quiet, and it's waters toss up refuse and mud ).
( Eze 26:3 I will bring up many nations against you, as the sea brings up it's waves ). Also look at ( Job 38:11, Jude 1:13, Eph 4:14 ).

Sea : The collective waters of the earth as distinguish from land. Jehovah as the Creator of the seas, which were formed as distinct from the dry land. ( Ne 9:6; Act 4:24;14:15; Re 14:7 ).
It also comments on His ability to extend His power over the sea and to control it.
( Job 26:12; Ps 65:7; 89:9; Jer 31:35 ).
The waters are limited by His decree to their proper place, they do not come up and inundate the land, ( Job 38:8-11 )

Rivers : Some rivers are a considerable body of water that flow fairly constantly in a natural channel, in contrast there are those that are often dry, but at times carry a turbulent flow of water.
Figurative use : Rivers served as a barrier or defense,Jehovah God was described as being the source of a mighty river of protection, going against it would bring on disaster,( Isa 33:21,22 )
Metaphorical use concerning mankind: Disastrous flooding of a river is also used to represent the invasion of enemy forces ( Isa 8:7 ).
( Ps 98:7-9
Let the sea roar and all it contains , the world and those who dwell in it, rivers clap their hands, mountains sing for joy earth, world and peoples ). Also read ( Nahum 1:4 ).

Water : As we found out in an earlier scripture, this word
also represented people, crowds, nations and tongues, ( Re 17: 1,15; comp. Isa 57:20 ) in a figurative or illustrative way, but it is also used as a destructive agent or employed as a symbol of a destructive force, ( Ps 69:1,2,14,15; 144:7,8 ).

And so ( Genesis 1:9-10 ) in a metaphorical way can come to mean the following.

Let the waters ( which represent people of all nations ) be gathered into one place, ( could mean figuratively a certain or special arrangement ), and let the dry land appear, ( which are the more stable elements of society ) and it was so.

God called the dry land earth, ( earth also being referred to as ground or soil ( which refers to people and these can be of good or bad quality ) and the gathering of the waters He called seas ( these waters representing people, crowds, nations and tongues ) and God saw that it was good.

We also need to understand that there is a distinction between the
waters and seas as there is also a distinction between earth and dry land.
Each one referring to those who are and are not receptive to
Jehovah's word. Each one representing a different out look of society.

There are the waters, waves, seas and streams of mankind, but also the waters, streams, floods, rivers and rains of Jehovah.

There is the dirt, dust, dry land, sand, and soil of mankind and there is also the earth, ground, good soil and land of Jehovah.


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



10-29-2008 09:30 PM
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Aurora
And then there was Morning .. a New Day


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Post: #7
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Genesis 1:11
Then God said .. Let the earth sprout vegetation: plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them, and it was so ....

Here are some words that could be symbols for other things aka. mankind according to Jehovah's wisdom...

Vegetation, green things, grass, thorns and thistles, green herbs, plants yielding seed, fruit trees and so on ....

Trees : Represent individual rulers and kingdoms ( Dan 4:10-26 ).
Trees at times represent those who are prominent or lofty ( Eze 31:2-14 ).
Righteous man is likened to a tree planted by streams of water who's foliage is luxuriant, and who's fruit grows even in drought ( Jer17:8 ).

Immoral persons who infiltrate the Christian congregations are liked to fruitless trees in Autum time that have died twice ( Jude 12 ).

These expressions aid in understanding ( Rev 8:7 ) which speaks of the burning up of a third of the trees.

Vegetation : as in grass, green herb, green things and other plants :
Grass :
Decendants and offsrping are likened to grass ( Job 5:25 ).
All flesh is grass .... people are grass ( Isa 40:5-8 )
Son of Man likened to Grass ( Isa 44:3-5 )

Evil doers and wrongdoers are likened to fading grass and herbs also haters of zion or people about to be subjugated by military conquest are likened to shallow rooted grass ( 2Ki 19:25,26 )(Ps 37:1,2 ; 92:6-8 ; 129:5-7 ).
Inhabitants short of strength compared to vegetation of the field and as a green herb, as grass on the housetops, scorched before it is grown up ( Isa 37:26-28 ).

Other scriptures that refer to people as being green things or grass :
( Isa 15:5-7 )( Job 39:7-9 )( Luke 23:30-32 )( Pro 27:24-26 ).

Vegetation :
under favorable conditions vegetation sprouts in great profusion, making it an appropriete figure to represent numerous decendants ( Job 5:25 )
Those who are from the city will blossom like the vegetation of the earth ( PS 72:16 ).

Seed :
this is a reference to offspring and posterity ( Gen 9:9 ) ( Gen 16:10 ).

Plants: Your mother was like a vine in your vineyard ...etc. fruitful and full of branches .... ( Eze 19:10 )

Concerning Jehovah's nation He said :
I smote you and every work of your hands, etc....
Is the seed still in the barn ? Even including the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate and the olive tree, it
has not borne fruit. Yet from this day on I will bless you ( Haggai 19:17-19 ).

Thorns and thistles :
This expression denotes people and rulers whose actions being bad, are in line with adverse judgment ( 2Ki 14:9-10 ) ( Isa 9:18-19 ; 10:17-19) .

Wicket opposers of Jehovah's servant are depicted as thornbushes ( Ps 118:10,12 ).
Thorns designate persons or things that cause injury and are troublesome ( Num 33:55 ) ( Pro 22:5 ) ( Eze 28:24 ).

Being worthless likened to thorns ( 2 Sam 23:5-6 ) Wicket are lazy or hedge of thorns ( Pro 15:18-20 ).

Jeremiah compared the hearts of the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to ground covered with thorns, that is , with untruth, injustice and unrighteousness ( Jer 4:1-4 comp. Ho 10:12,13 ).


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



10-29-2008 10:10 PM
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Aurora
And then there was Morning .. a New Day


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Post: #8
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Sun , Moon and Stars
Definitions found in the Insight to the Scripture books concerning the words Sun, Moon and Stars including their figurative and symbolic application.

Some definitions are very short in the Insight books and don't seem to be pointing to anything but I feel there is a reason for this and I will elaborate as I continue.

IttSb : pg.1043 under the heading Sun, figurative use..

Jehovah God is called a Sun and a shield... the source of life and energy . ( Ps 84:11 ).

It also states that, that which brings calamity is likened to the Suns heat ( PS 121:6,7 )

Persecution and divine anger are also represented by scorching heat of the Sun ( Mt 13:5,6,20,21 ).
It goes on to mention that Jehovah likened rebellious Jerusalem to a woman who had borne 7 sons , decribing the judgment coming upon her by the figurative expression " Her sun has set while it is still day," that is, before the evening of her life was reached she would experience calamity, this being fulfilled when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem ( Jer 15:9 ).

Also Micha prophesied against the prophets misleading Isreal saying " The sun will certainly set on the prophets, and the day must get dark upon them ( Mic 3:6; Amos 8:9 )

IttSb Pg.1044 second colum, last para.

The rising or shining of the Sun is occasionally used in a figurative way as in ( 2 Samuel 23:3,4 ) .. and the reign of a righteous ruler who fears God is said to be as refreshing as" the light of morning ", when the Sun shines forth, a morning with out clouds.

IttSb pg. 1033 under the heading Star figurative use, we read inpart :

Stars are used in a figurative sence and in metaphors or similies to represent persons, the most significant application of these words can be found in the book of ( Genesis 37:9,10 )
Here the parents and brothers of Joseph are looked at as representing these stars and other symbols.

( Sun = Father ) ( Moon = Mother ) ( Stars = Brothers ).

( Job 38 :7 parallels " the morning stars " that joyfully cried out at earth's founding with the angelic " sons of God ".

Jesus spoke of himself as " the bright morning star " and the seven angels of the congregations, to whom messages were delivered, are symbolized by seven stars ( Rev 22:16; 2:26,28... 2 Tim 2:12 ) (Rev 1:16,20 ; 2:1; 3:1 ).

The darkening of the stars, along with the sun and the moon, is a freaquent figure used in prophetic warnings of disaster brought as a result of God's judgment ( Isa 13:10; Eze 32:7 ; Rev 6:12,13; 8:12 and Job 9:6,7 ).

The symbols of Sun, Moon and Stars represented Joseph's Father, Mother and Brothers respectively, but Moon is also a reference to Jerusalem which is also represented as a woman... and if Moon is the equivalent to woman which is the less or weaker
vessel, then this is also a reference to the body or [b congregation[/b].

The following scriptures give more insight into these symbols and make it plain that these apply to mankind or GODs household .
( scriptures are in shortened form ).

( PS 8:2-4 ) Moon and Stars ordained by GOD.

( PS.148:2-4 ) Praise HIM Sun and Moon, Praise Him all Stars of light.

( Isa 30:25-27 ) Moon will be as the Sun, and the Sun, 7 times brighter.

( Isa 60:19-20 ) No longer will you have the Sun for light by day, nor Moon give you light, LORD will be everlasting light and your glory. Sun will no longer set nor Moon wane and days of mourning will be over.

( Job 38:6-8 ) Morning Stars sang, =Sons of God shouted for joy.

( Dan 12:3 ) Those who have insight will shine brightly .. etc.those who lead the many to righteousness, like the Stars forever and ever.

( 1 Cor 15:41 ) There is one glory of the Sun, and another glory of the Moon, and another glory of the Stars ; ( for Star differs from Star in Glory ). ( this being a direct reference to the gifts of the anointed, IMHO .)

( Deut 4:19 ) Beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the Sun and the Moon and the Stars and be drawn away and worship and serve them, those which the Lord has alloted to all the peoples under heaven.

Only some of these scriptures are expressed in the Insights to the Scripture books which is fine with me, it gives me the impression that some of these individuals where either set on high by God, anointed or were considered righteous.

But, there are numerous other scriptures that use these same symbols but where not explained in these books by the WTs.

Next, I will sight scriptures that apply the symbols of Sun, Moon and Stars in a condemning or judgmental way.
( scriptures will be in shortened form ).

Remember, I am applying these to mankind or Gods household in some way.

( Job 25: 5 ) Moon has no brightness, Stars are not pure in His eyes.

( Isa 13:9-11 ) Stars donot flash forth light, Sun will be dark, Moon will not shed it's light.

( Isa 24:22-24 ) Moon will be abashed, and the Sun ashamed.

( Zech 14:6-7 ) In that day there will be no light, the luminaries will dwindle....

( Joel 2:10 ) Sun and Moon grow dark, Stars lose their brightness.

( Joel 2:31 ) Sun turned into darkness, Moon into blood, before the great day of the Lord.

( Jude 1:12-14 ) Wandering Stars, men hidden, caring for themselves.

( Luke 21:25-28 ) Signs in Sun, Moon and Stars.... powers of the heavens shaken.

I'm sure by now one can recognized that these symbols can represent Mankinds Heaven ( Superior authorities ruling over everyone) but also apply in some ways to Jehovah's Heavens or ( those ruling over us, JWs )

Taking all of these scriptures into consideration one can get a better
understanding of what has happend in the past and will be instore for all in the near future.

I feel that( Luke 21:25 - 28 ) gives us the best overall insight...

There will be signs in the Sun and the Moon and Stars = ( those above us, directing and ruling over us ), and on the earth dismay among the nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves = ( at the lifting up of the voices, of masses allienated from God ), men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world ; for the powers = (
strength ) of the heavens = ( Superior Authorities ) will be shaken. Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.

Aso, if one takes the expressions of the symbols of Sun, Moon and Stars into consideration and tries to apply them to the book of Revelations one can get a better picture of what has and is still going to happen to those ruling over us.

Another question to ask is if these Signs = Sun, Moon and Stars and Seasons mentioned in Gen 1:14 relate to individuals, then what are the governing of these supposed to relate to.

Again, we go to the Insight's to the Scripture books and find under the expression of Seasons, starting in the 2cnd Para. the following in part :

The agricultural seasons were closely connected with the annual " festival seasons "that were establish by the Mosaic Law , ( 1 Ch 23:31; 2 Ch 31:3 ).
When Paul counseled some Jewish Christians who were "scrupulously observing days and months and seasons " he meant the festival seasons that were a part of the Law, not simply weather or
agricultural season ( Gal 4:10 ).

" Seasons " can therefore refer to a fixed or an appointed time or a period possesed of certain characteristics ( Act 3:9 ftn; Rom 8:18; Gal 6:9 ).
The " times or seasons," or periods when Jehovah's will in certain matters would take place, were of real interest to His worshipers ( Act 1:7 )

In regard to the dwelling of the nations on the earth, God " decreed the appointed times " ( Act 17:26 ) fixed the epochs of their history," in that He determined when certain changes should occur....( Gen 15:13-21; Jer 25:8-11; Dan2:21; 7:12 ).

( These expressions in bold above being characteristics also of the physical luminaries )...

As we have read in an earlier post Jehovah our GOD is also likend to the Sun...... He is the Supreme Sovereign ( Ex 19:5; 1 Sam 12:12; Isa 33:22 ), but there have also been Kings sitting on Jehovah's throne representing Him, and these were considered to be in the headship possitions, ( Patriachs ) these governing and ruling over individuals, ( Act 2:29; 7:8,9; Heb 7:4 ).

There was also the light of the ( Moon ), a lesser possition representing GOD, this referring to the Levitical Priesthood rendering sacred service and these acted as the Patriachs assistants. These were also appointed as, supervisors, officers, judges, gatekeepers and treasures and also over other individuals ( 1Ch 23, 25, 26; 2 Ch 35:3-5,10 ).

All of these possitions dealt with the continued observance of the Laws and Ordinances that were required and handed down by GOD to keep the people not just physically clean and seperate, but also
spiritually clean and seperated from the rest of mankind
( Insights to the Scripture books pg.214 under the heading ... features of the Law Covenant ).


_________________
A wise man will hear and increase in learning
And a man of understanding will aquire wise counsil
To understand a proverb and a figure
The words of the wise and their riddles...
( Proverbs 1:5,6 )

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Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



10-29-2008 11:42 PM
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Aurora
And then there was Morning .. a New Day


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Post: #9
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Then God said, " Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let the birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."

God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after it's kind, and God saw that it was good.

God blessed them, saying " Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. " There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

According to the Insights to Scripture Books pg. 1047 under the heading Swarming Thing, it states in part:
[ Heb., she'rets ] ... The root word from which this term is drawn means to " swarm" or " team " ( Gen 8:17; Ex 8:3 ) The noun appears to apply to small creatures to be found in
large numbers.

Figuarative use of the word Swarms in scriptures describing mankind :
Ezekiel 47:9
Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live. Ezekiel 47:8-10

Figurative use of the word Fish describing mankind in the Insight to the Scripture books pg. 838

Jesus likened righteous persons to fine fish and the wicket to unsuitable fish that are thrown away( Mat 13:47-50 )

Other scriptures that have a figurative application of the word fish.

Habakkuk 1:14
You have made men like fish in the sea, like sea creatures that have no ruler. Habakkuk 1:13-15

Mark 1:17
And Jesus said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you become fishers of men " Mark 1:16-18

Isaiah 50:2
When I came, why was there no one? When I called, why was there no one to answer?
Was my arm too short to ransom you? Do I lack the strength to rescue you? By a mere rebuke I dry up the sea, I turn rivers into a desert; their fish rot for lack of water and die of thirst. Isaiah 50:1-3

Hosea 4:3
Because of this the land mourns, [ Or dries up ] and all who live in it waste away; the beasts of the field and the birds of the air and the fish of the sea are dying.

Psalm 69:34
Let [Ps 96:11; 98:7; 148:1-13; Is 44:23; 49:13] heaven and earth praise Him,The seas and [Is 55:12] everything that moves in them. Psalm 69:33-35

Insights to the Scripture Books ( Pg.316 ) under the heading BIRDS it states in part:

Figuratively it was used of a person who picks up scraps by begging or stealing, or, as in the case of the Apostle Paul, one who repeats scraps of knowledge, an idle babbler. ( Acts 17:18 ) were he is referred to as a chatterer .

Figurative use of the word BIRD in other scriptures :

Bird of Prey [/b]( Pg 317 ) .. The one used by Jehovah to execute judgment was figuratively represented by a bird of prey ( Isa 46:11 )

[b]David compared to a bird
.... ( Psa 11:1-3 )

Man compared to a bird.... ( Pro 27:7-9 ).. ( Jer 4:25 ).. ( Isa 46:11 man .. of my purpose )..
( Psa 102:6,7 .. I resemble a pelican .. become like an owl )

Angels of the lord compared to Birds
( Ecc 10:20 ).... ( Rev 8:13 eagel flying in mid heaven ) comp Rev 14:6.... ( Ecc 10:20 for a bird of the heavens will carry the sound and the winged creature will make the matter known ).

Also IttSB( Pg. 267 ) states in part :
Mankind has observed the characteristics and habits of animals and has applied them in Figurative or symbolic sense to persons, peoples, governments and organizations. They describe political kingdoms or governments exercising rulership and authority ( Dan 7:6,12, 23; 8:20-22 ) & ( Rev 16:10 ; 17: 3,9,12 ).

Assyria : represented by the eagle...
Athens the owl ...
Rome the eagle ....
United States the eagle ....
also
Great Britain as a lion ....
Russia a bear ....
China a dragon ....
Germany
the two headed eagle ...
Egypt a serpent,
the sacred asp .. but also the Bull ...

The same nation or it's rulers may be represented by different animal symbols in different Prophesies.

Figurative expression of Sea Monsters given in the Insight to the Scripture Books pg.884 ... it states the following in part:

The word Sea Monster at Eze 29:3 and marine monster at Eze 32:2 is translated as the Hebrew word tan.nin' ( tan.nim' ).
This term is rendered " big snake " when not mentioned in connection with the sea or water ( Jer. 51:34 ).
Tan.nin' includes a varriety of large marine animals ( Gen 1:21; Psa 148: )... this term is usually employed in a figurative sense

The destruction of Pharaoh and his hosts appears to be alluded to by the phrase "
You ( Jehovah ) broke the heads of the sea monsters in the waters " ( Psa 74:13 ) At Isa 51:9 " sea monster " appears in parallel with Rahab ( Egypt; comp.Isa 30:7 ) and hence may denote Egypt, or the reference may be to Paraoh, as in Eze 29:3 and 32: ....

Faithful Job also asked whether he himself was " a sea monster " that had to have a guard set over him ( Job 7:12 ).

IttSB pg.240 states the following about Leviathan ...

Psa 74 describes God's record of salvation for His people .... verses 13 and 14 refer symbolically to his deliverance of Israel from Egypt. Here the term " sea monster " is used as a parallel expression to " Leviathan," and the crushing of the heads of Leviathan may well refer to the crushing defeat administered to Pharaoh and his army at the time of the Exodus.
Isa 27:1 apparently employs Leviathan ( LXX," the dragon" ) as a symbol of an empire, an organization that is international in scope and that is dominated by one who is himself referred to as " serpent " and " dragon " ( Rev 12:9 ) The prophesy is one of restoration for Israel, and therefore Jehovah's turning attention to Leviathan must include Babylon ... verses 12 and 13 consider Assyria and Egypt too and so Leviathan evidently refers to an international organization or empire that is in oppostion to Jehovah and His worshipers.

Other scriptures to consider referring in a figurative way towards lofty ones... ( Job 40:15-24 and Job 41 ).

Psa 148:7 Praise from Sea Monsters ...
Since the waters represent the masses allienated from GOD, the birds represent messengers but also lofty ones and the Sea Monsters are Empires or Kingdoms, we can get the following explanation concerning the 5 th day.

Then GOD said, ' Let the Waters ( masses of mankind ), teem with swarms of living creatures, ( gather and bring forth large numbers in which there is spirit )and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse, ( let kings/messengers reign over the more stable things of mankind in heavenly/spiritual places ).

God created the great Sea Monsters ( God brougth forth the Kingdoms and Empires of the nations ) and every living thing that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, ( and all sorts of beings in vast numbers according to their likeness ), and every winged bird after it's kind, ( and all sorts of kings/spiritual messengers ... kingdoms/religious entities.... in their likeness ); and GOD saw that it was good.

God blessed them saying, be fruitful and multiply, ( reproduce in great numbers and fill the waters in the seas,( and become exeedingly numerous throughout the nations ) and let birds multiply on the earth ( and let kings/messengers ... spirits/angels ... kingdoms/religious entities, etc ... fill the land ).


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



11-04-2008 06:41 PM
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e-magine
Disciple of Newness


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Post: #10
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Whew! Thats a lot of work!
I have always believed that the first few chapters of Genesis (at least) are metaphoric and simplified, so that the early Hebrews could get a sense of the beginning, not not any real details.
Let's face it, Moses' account was given by direct inspiration, in the same manner as John's Revelation or Ezekiel's vision.
I can't wait for you to get into chapter 3!:read:


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
11-04-2008 08:22 PM
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Aurora
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RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

e-magine Wrote:
Whew! Thats a lot of work!
I have always believed that the first few chapters of Genesis (at least) are metaphoric and simplified, so that the early Hebrews could get a sense of the beginning, not not any real details.
Let's face it, Moses' account was given by direct inspiration, in the same manner as John's Revelation or Ezekiel's vision.
I can't wait for you to get into chapter 3!:read:


Hi there e-magine ... :giverose:

I agree with you ..

from the first time that I opened up the bible at the age of 15 and started reading the creation account I could sense that there was something more to it ;)

and as you said ... it is a simple timeline account of all things pertaining to mankinds 6000 year history with Him ... the coming about of a new age ( day) and the closing of one ( evening ) according to Gods prepared plan.

I can't wait for you to get into chapter 3!:read:
I'm not sure what chapter your taking about :dontknow:
Could you elaborate ;)

with much affection, LC :heartbeat:


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



11-05-2008 05:52 PM
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Aurora
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RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

And so we have the 6th day of creation .....

Then GOD said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind.

Figurative use of the following words describing mankind in the Insights to the Scripture Books : .....

Grasshopers ( Pg. 994 ) : Refers to men, especially those who oppose God. They are as Grasshopers from JAH's standpoint in view of His greatness...

Locusts ( Pg 260 ) : Used to describe innumerableness ( Judg 6:5; 7:12; Jer 46:23 ).

Figurative use of the word Swarms towards mankind found in other scriptures :

Men compared to swarms of Locusts ( Judges 6: 4-6 )

Guards are locusts, officials like swarms ( Nah 3:16-18 ) .

Here are a few Figurative expressions concerning the Beasts in the Insight to the Scripture Books ( Pg. 267-271 ).
Each of these expressions reflect that which is desirable ( referring to creatures the of earth ) according to Jehovah but also that which is undesirable ( referring to the creatures of the Seas of mankind ) ...

Creatures of the Earth ... ( the more stable things of mankind ) .

ASS : Ability to work hard ... ( Tribe of Issachar lending itself to labor... Gen 49:14,15 ).

Bull , young (calf) : Sacrificial animal ... ( Fruit of the lips, sacrifice of praise... Ho 14:2; Heb 13:15 ) ( Jesus as sacrifice Heb 9:11-14 ).

Dove : Lovableness, beauty, innocence ... ( God's servants innocent, not law breakers... Mt 10:16 ) ( JAH's people being gathered.. Isa 60:8 ).

Eagle : Farsightedness ... ( Discernment, spiritual forevission of God's servants ... Mt 24:28; Lu 17:37 ).

Fish : Some fish clean according to the law ... Lev 11:9-12 ( People fine, righteous, suitable for the kingdom ... Mt 13:47-50 ).

Lion : Majesty, courage, destructiveness to enemies ... ( Jesus as royal majesty, king, executor of justice .. Ge 49:9; Re 5:5 ...JAH's people.. Mic 5:8 ).

Sheep : Sacrificial animal, Meekness, docility,gregariousness ...( JC...Lamb of GOD.. Joh 1:29; Re 5:6; 14:1; 22:3... JAH's flock of people.. Ps 79:13; Joh 10:7; Heb 13:20 .... Persons doing good towards Christ's spiritual brothers and enter into kingdom blessings ... Mt 25: 32-34 .

Wolf : Fighter ... ( Tribe of Benjamin, fighter against God's enemies ... ( GE 49:27 ).

Creatures of the Sea ... ( wicket being tossed, those allienated from God ... Sea of Mankind ) .

Animals in general : Lack of reasoning ... ( Wicket men 2 Pet 2:12; Jude 10 ).

ASS : Strong sexual desire ... ( Faithless Judah in turning to Assyria and Egypt ...( Eze 23: 20 ).

Bear : Ferocity ... ( Wicket rulers .. Pr 28:15 ... Medo-Persian World Power .. ( Dan 7: 5 ).

Bull : Ferocity ... ( Wicket enemies of David .. Ps 22: 12 ).

Dog : Viciousness, uncleaness, operating in packs etc.. ( Wicket enemies of David .. Ps 22: 16; 59: 6,14 .. Worthless individual .. 2 Sam 16: 9.. Apostates .. 2 Pet 2: 22 ).

Dove : Easily distracted, unstable, simpleminded... ( Ten-tribe kingdom of Israel ... Hos 7: 11 ).

Eagle : Rapacious, predatory ... ( Kings of Babylon and Egypt ... Eze 17: 3,7,12,15 ).

Fish : Some fish unclean according to law.. Lev 11: 10-12 ... ( Wicket persons, unsuitable for Kingdom .. Mt 13: 47-50 ) .

Lion : Fierce, rapicious, predatory ... ( Wicket enemies of David .. Ps 22:13 ... Babylonian World Power .. Dan 7: 4 ... Devil ..1 Pe 5: 8 ) etc...

Goat : Stuborness, independant disposition, tendency to butt .. ( Persons not friendly toward Christ's spiritual brothers "cursed ones going into destruction.. Mt 25: 32,41,46 ).

Sow : Uncleaness ... ( Apostates .. 2Pe 2: 22 ).

Wolf : Ferocity, rapacity, viciousness, craftiness ... ( False prophets .. Mt 7:15 ... Wicket, false Christians, false teachers .. Act 20: 29 .. Wicket men of the world .. Mt 10: 16 ) .

It also states in the Insight to the Scripture books , Pg. 111 under the heading Animals applied in an illustrative way the following in part :
The outstanding traits of animals are alluded to and used to symbolize a variety of qualities and powers . Animal features may portray excellent qualities, divine as well as human .. ( Eze 1: 10, 11; Re 4: 6, 7 )... but also be employed to represent wild, beastlike ruling powers that oppress and crush people .. ( Da 7: 2-7; 8: 5-8, 20, 21; Re 13: 1-17 ).

Other scriptures that have a Figurative application concerning Beasts:
( Isa 43: 20, 21 ) ... Beasts of the field will glorify me ... jackels and the ostriches ...my chosen people .

( Hos 2: 18 ) ... In that day, I will also make a covenant for them ...with the beasts of the field, the birds of the sky and the creeping things of the ground..

( Job 12: 7-9 ) ... Now ask the beasts, and let them teach you, and the birds of heaven, let them tell you, and let the fish of the sea declare to you, who among all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this.

( Job 18: 3 ) ... Why are we regarded as beasts, as stupid in your eyes ?

( Job 35: 11 ) ... Who teaches us more than the beasts of the earth, makes us wiser than birds of heaven ? There they cry out, but He does not answer because of the pride of men.

( Isa 30: 6-7 ) The oracle concerning the beasts of the Negev.... Through a land of distress and anguish, From where come lioness and lion, viper and flying serpent, ... etc..etc ... therefore I have called her Rahab, who has been exterminated.

( Isa 56: 8-11 ) The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel declares, Yet others I will gather to them ... etc, etc, All you beasts of the field, all you beasts in the forest, Come to eat.... etc.

There are just to many to list, but hopefully one can get the sense of what scriptures like these are alluding to.

The word Stable according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary states the following...

1 a : firmly established : FIXED, STEADFAST b : not changing or fluctuating : UNVARYING c : PERMANENT, ENDURING
2 a : steady in purpose : firm in resolution b : not subject to insecurity or emotional illness : SANE, RATIONAL <a stable personality>
3 a (1) : placed so as to resist forces tending to cause motion or change of motion (2) : designed so as to develop forces that restore the original condition when disturbed from a condition of equilibrium or steady motion b (1) : not readily altering in chemical makeup or physical state .

According to the previous explanation it seems that the earth symbolically stands for the individuals portraying the qualities of Unity, Stability and unwaivering Faith etc .. that the household or land of Jehovah is supposed to be displaying in these critical days of ours.

So now that we have come to understand some of the symbolic expressions that Jehovah uses when approaching His creations lets look at the following scripture again .....

Then God said, " Let the earth ( the more stable things of Mankind ) bring forth living creatures after their kind "cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind " ( and the earth produced Kingdoms, Rulers and Tribes in their likeness and all sorts of desirable things in which was spirit/life ) and it was so .

God made the beasts of the earth ( the Kings and Kingdoms and Rulers of Tribes and nations ) after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, ( and flocks of people in their likeness ) and everything that creeps on the ground after it's kind; ( and all sorts of individuals in their likeness ) and God saw that it was good.


Ruach HaKodesh ....

All Great Truths Begin As Blasphemies ( G.B. Shaw ).

Genesis - the Beginning of Truth !
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=4205

But even if I am unskilled in Speech ...
I Certainly am Not in Knowledge ...



11-05-2008 07:02 PM
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Disciple of Newness


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Post: #13
RE: Genesis - the beginning of Truth .

Hi A!
I was refering to chapter 3 of Genesis. :thumbup:


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Henry Ward Beecher-1872 Preacher of Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, in his home later bought by C.H. Russell.
He is looking at the Brooklyn Bridge,,,, is it the way into, or, out of Brooklyn for you?
11-05-2008 09:43 PM
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