Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hello all of you dear ones ...

I thought in light of the recent WT article of April 1, 2007 subheading 'Giving Loyal Support' pg. 24 para 14 that discussing this Scripture and how it is to be applied, to whom, and when, might perhaps be good to discuss ...:giverose:

I hope you think so too ...:blush:

The paragraph mentioned above states as follows ...

14. The humble submission of the other sheep to the anointed members of spiritual Israel was foretold in the prophesy of Isaiah: "This is what Jehovah has said: 'The unpaid laborers of Egypt and the merchants of Ethiopia and the Sabeans, tall men, will themselves come over even to you and yours they will become. Behind you they will walk; in fetters they will come ovr, and to you they will bow down. To you they will pray, saying, "Indeed God is in union with you and htere is no one else; there is no other God."'" (Isaiah 45:14) Symbolically, the other sheep today walk behind the anointed slave class and its Governing Body, following their leadership. As "unpaid laborers," the other sheep willingly expend their physical strength and resources in support of the worldwide preaching work that Christ assigned to his anointed followers on earth.- Acts 1:8; Revelation 12:17.

The other two Scriptures cited are ...

Acts 1:8 ...

8 but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a and to the most distant part of the earth.”

Rev. 12:17 ...

17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.

I thought I would just start with this and then put in some of my comments after ... that way if anyone wants to comment before I get done ... hint hint nudge nudge ...;):whistle::siskiss: they can do so ...:thumbsup:

Ta ta for now ... love your sis ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

I did not start this thread to be 'critical' or 'negative' or just to be 'picky' ... but rather to truly seek to try to UNDERSTAND AS ACCURATELY WE CAN what it means ...:giverose:

When I read the above application of the Scripture at Isaiah I was rather at a loss ... and so I did some quick digging around to try to find some application to it ... in light of all that had been said previous, and the assumption that the fulfillment of this Scripture was NOW and that it applied to the 'anointed' (faithful slave) had me wondering because of some of things it says that the 'unpaid laborer' would DO in regard to this people ... that they would BOW DOWN ... and would PRAY to them ...

This caused me of course to WONDER ... as when John received the vision of Revelation it is stated at Rev. 19:10 ...

10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing to Jesus. Worship God; for the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying.”

So, if John was told NOT to 'fall down' or 'bow' before an ANGEL ... then it got me wondering if we would be going against this in relation to having this 'attitude' toward MERE IMPERFECT MEN ...?:huh:

The word used in Isaiah for 'bow down' is shachah and means ...

a prim. root; to depress, e.e. prostrate (espec. refl. in homage to royalty or God):- bow (slef) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverance, make to stoop, worship.

So, is this the kind of thing that we would do NOW in regard to the 'anointed' (FDS)? Or is it yet FUTURE when they receive their heavenly reward and become KINGS and PRIESTS with Christ Jesus ...

OR

Is the application in regard to SOMEONE ELSE entirely ...?

If we go to the previous verse in Isa. 45:13 it says ...

13 “I myself have roused up someone in righteousness, and all his ways I shall straighten out. He is the one that will build my city, and those of mine in exile he will let go, not for a price nor for bribery,” Jehovah of armies has said.

So WHO is this 'someone'? Is it not speaking about CYRUS (and some Bibles even use his name in the place of 'him' or 'somone'? And WHO pictures the GREATER CYRUS?

According to the w97 5/1 p. 19 par. 7 Messengers of Godly Peace Pronounced Happy

7 Earlier in this century, there was powerful evidence that a Greater Cyrus was at work. Who was he? None other than Jesus Christ, enthroned since 1914 in the heavenly Kingdom.

So, is not the application of verse 14 in relation to the GREATER CYRUS ... CHRIST JESUS ...?

Is it not to HIM that we will BOW DOWN TO ... that we PRAY TO ...?
Is it not only Christ Jesus that will LOSE OUR FETTERS once we recognize where our TRUE SALVATION lies and where it belongs ...?
And if this is SO ... then have the FDS put themselves WHERE CHRIST JESUS BELONGS ...

Any thoughts ...:giverose:

Am I understanding this correctly so far ... or am I waaay off base ...?:confused::shocked::dontknow:

I do have some other thoughts but I thought I'd better start with this first ...;):happyheart::whistle:

Luv to ya'll your sis BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

I believe you are very right.

Jesus is the key to all these scriptures, alway look to see how it might apply to him first. Remember this vs
Col 2:2 that their hearts may be comforted, they being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, that they may know the mystery of God, [even]:1st: Christ,

Col 2:3 in whom are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge hidden. :albert:

I can not over state how important i believe this scripture is!

Digging

Dear Sis BruisedReed,

you said , ("So, if John was told NOT to 'fall down' or 'bow' before an ANGEL ... then it got me wondering if we would be going against this in relation to having this 'attitude' toward MERE IMPERFECT MEN ...?"

Your thoughts are mine exactly. Just because mere imperfect men claim to be Jehovah's mouthpiece and therefore we are to bow to them, and make oaths to their men's Organization, we are not supposed to notice that they secretly changed the baptismal 2nd question to the same thing as idol worship of an organization of men, by changing the Holy spirit into a Spirit Directed Organization of men. They are now claiming to be "The Holy Spirit"! Its the same thing! Its just worded in a way few will take notice. When I saw this I knew they were false religion! They are just a trap satan is using to trick God's people because they have good hearts and want to be obedient to Jehovah, but fail to see that this is a very serious matter to bow before another God, even If these men try to deceive us into thinking that they are the only ark for survival, (I thought Jesus was ?) To me they are just another idol. Those who keep God's commandments in his Law will see this, and will not be tricked by this.

John 15: 26
"the Helper will come- the Spirit avels the "TRUTH" about God and who comes from the Father. I will send him to you from the Father , and he will speak about me. And you to will speak about me, because you have been with me from the very beginning.

16:1-4
" I have told you this , so that you will Not give up your faith. YOU WILL BE EXPELLED FROM THE SYNOGOGUES, AND THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THOSE WHO KILL YOU WILL THINK THAT BY DOING THIS THEY ARE SERVING GOD. PEOPLE WILL DO THESE THINGS TO YOU BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN EITHER THE FATHER OR ME. BUT I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS, SO THAT WHEN THE TIME COMES FOR THEM TO DO THESE THINGS, YOU WILL REMEMBER WHTA I TOLD YOU.

New Heart