Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

This is a new board and outlines are being modified.

We all have our own pet theories, quirks and notions. Sometimes we want to air them on the board.

This is fine, but it is requested that wherever possible, you also post scriptural support for what you are saying.
This is particularly important if what you are saying might be controversial.
Then we do not end up debating things that amount to nothing more that hot air.

Better still don't only quote scriptures, but quote the scriptures in context if possible, then we will have something to get our teeth into.

Thank you so much,
vicky

And, while we're talking about it, ...

6 ... learn not to go beyond that which is written, that none of you may be puffed up and inflated with pride and boast in favor of one [minister and teacher] against another.--1 Corinthians 4:6, The Amplified Bible.

Thanks Man Hu and isomam.

Re: "...but quote the scriptures in context if possible..."

Re: "... learn not to go beyond that which is written..."


...sometimes easier said than done....keep on seeking...grin, oh, and a :ok:

Christian love,

gogh

Choose your teachers carefully:
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot." Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" And he said, "Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

That eunich sure knew the words...But no meaning. Why is that scripture there? To tell people all we need is the Bible?

What about this one?
1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers,...

Is everybody to be a student? No teachers??? Learn the course with the textbook alone and trust nobody with experience?

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
Does that scripture say only scripture is profitable?

The Bible tells us to listen first to apostles, then prophets, then teachers.

We need to test the spirits though. It does not say don't trust any spirit.
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

God bless

By the way...I am not a teacher. I am an evangelist. Teachers are much more organized than I am. Bro Russell was a good example of a teacher, in my opinion. And, he gave away a fortune to seek the Lord. Gave his all to the Lord. A good example for me.

Acts 8:34...

"The eunuch said, "Tell me, who is the prophet talking about: himself or some other?" Philip grabbed his chance. Using this passage as his text, he preached Jesus to him."

"As they continued down the road, they came to a stream of water. The eunuch said, "Here's water. Why can't I be baptized?"

Does not holy scripture lead to asking the same question..."Why can't I be baptized?"

A warning is clear...

"I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."

Trust YHWH's holy spirit. Pray for it. Put complete faith in our Leader Christ Jesus.

Psalm 118:8...

"It is better to take refuge in Jehovah Than to trust in earthling man."

Christian love to Seekers.

:coolmusic: gogh

Definitely agree with the water idea. Nobody should hold back somebody who wants to publicly declare what he/she has already privately done: been buried with Christ and rise again as spirit begotten.

Nobody has a right to make a person prove he/she is spirit begotten. If you tell me that you have been spirit begotten, I will be honored to immerse you on the spot if you want.

Rom 6:3-6 Or are you ignorant, that as many as were dipped into Anointed [Jesus,] into the death of him were dipped? We were buried together therefore with him through the dipping into the death, that as was raised up Anointed out of dead ones through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life should walk.If for planted together we have become in the likeness of the death of him, certainly also of the resurrection we shall be; this knowing, that the old of us man was crucified with, that might be rendered powerless the body of the sin, of the no longer to be enslaved us in the sin;



I used the Emphatic Diaglott for a change, for those of you who don't like old english! That version is a word for word Greek translation.
here is the emphatic diaglott. You can download it. http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/bsl/Library...aglott.pdf
I believe it was written by Christadelphians , although it is available at the book counter still...I think.

So far I have received 2 pm's from "facilitators" warning about posting links to Bible Student material. Seems like the same heavy agenda promotion as was the case on e-w. I will not engage in political correctness nor be intimidated from speaking the truth. If this is "any links can be posted except to the Bible Students," then you probably wouldn't be interested in any other comments I might think of to go along with the program. If that is the case, I will officially decease from all commenting. We are not looking for converts as our numbers are declining rapidly as is to be expected as we near the unsealing of the 7th Seal.

*Gasp* - Gogh used a smiley - a REAL one! :shocked: Lolol. (big grin!)

freyd -
dear bro, maybe it's just that we all know where the Bible Students forum is... most of us have looked and read and know what the teachings are... and if we're inclined to study with them so as to become one, we will. They were the first group I investigated after finding out t.t.a.t.t. They(you!) are a nice bunch - sincere in their(your) beliefs. While I love you very much and consider you, Jim and Rolondo as my Christian brothers, I don't wish to become a Bible Student. I don't know who the 'facilitators' are, but what some might find 'unacceptable' is being constantly told by yet another group that they alone have a wall around 'The Truth'.(Ahh, that phrase tripped off my tongue so easily as a witness, but now I choke on it...) I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I've worked through that already and don't believe any one following has pure doctrinal truth, and none should pride themselves with claiming such exclusive divine favor. (But they all do.) Myself, I don't wish to become involved with any other organised religion ever. But I do want to further seek and follow Christ like a child - innocently, without a head and heart heavy with doctrinal arguements, facts and figures. I'm very comfortable with knowing the holy spirit will teach me, and has been teaching me, everything I need to know for my salvation and future 'real life'; providing instruction for vital Christian living now, and as a powerful testimony to God's grace through Christ. Christ alone is my Pastor(herdsman, spiritual overseer) and in him is found every truth I need. "I don't need no stinkin' religion!" (paraphrased from 'Three Amigos'.)
I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from - you came from there not so long ago yourself! And I'm glad you found a place where you're comfortable, too. No hard feelings? :siskiss: I love ya, bro. :hug:
Your sister in Christ, Willa

Dear Sr Willa, You're a treasure. :help: I am not trying to direct you to the BS forum. I'm not even trying to get anyone to read anything Pastor Russell wrote. And that goes for RR and Br Jim. I've had a couple very nice pm's with administration about the purpose of this board, which is to find common ground. That does not mean excluding only links to BS's. Everybody here knows where the BS forum is, but there are at least a hundred or so other links to information having to do with truth that also happen to support Br Russell. If you choose to reject the teachings of whom the WT claims as their founder, that's fine. He was not a prophet to the world. But you have knowledge that is directly attributable to his efforts. I don't know which you disagree with, but it doesn't matter. What does matter is freedom of speech that the WT and those such as e-w wish to curtail through the use of moderators. There were several disruptive types at e-w who could have been removed by implementing Jesus instructions at Matt 18 which the WT and e-w obviously chooses to ignore. It involves the whole ecclesia, or congregation, not moderators or secret back room judicial proceedings conducted by "loving overseers." If people don't choose to investigate links, or reject what they find, that should be their choice. But if they aren't allowed to have the opportunity to visit them, it smacks of censorship which has a long and successful history in the anals of mind control. As for organized religion, I agree with you. Bible Students are not an organized religion. maybe you think we are. But we're not. Truth is not a religion, but all religion contains some truth.
Peace out. :rose:

With respect, I don't know where their forum is (or that they even existed), nor do I know what their teachings are - although they have given me a flavour from their postings.  Neither have I read any of e-watchman's essays (believe it or not!).  I guess I'm open minded right now. :dontknow: :baby:

On the other hand, if the facilitators suggest a course of action regarding the moderation of this forum, then who are we to start bickering over it?  I feel that it's a privilege to be a member of this DB and not a given right.  :)

If I could share my feelings. I doubt I could judge an entire group based on one individual; but if I could, the I would say the Bible Students are a great bunch because I consider RR and Watchter to be very nice people.

When individuals come to up to me asking what Jehovah's Witnesses believe I generally just point them to the "Required Brochure". I figure if you want to know their beliefs you should start straight at the source. Then if they have any additional questions based on what is in the brochure I would be happy to answer them.

I guess I just feel the same with the Bible Students. If we want to know your beliefs we should just go to the source and read the writings of Russell. The Studies in the Scriptures are readily available, online and in print. If we want them we know who to ask. For instance, I just PM'd Rolando the other day asking where a good place to order them would be. He pointed me in the right direction. Thanks!

Lookiing back at Russell when he was getting started he looked around, he studied, he picked up things from other groups. If you read Henry Grew you can see where Russell got many of his doctrinal and other ideas from. If you read Neslon Barbour you can see where Russell picked his prophetic interpretations. However, there were probably others things that came from his personal study or the study with others.

I'm not trying to knock Russell because the depth of his Christian character comes across clear in his writings. What I'm saying is that he benefitted from studying and searching in the same manner that many of us are today on these discussion boards. We're able to really search and dig deep and test things. It's an exciting time for us to come out from the yoke of religion and really take a fresh look at God's Word. I guess in this one respect we have more of the spirit of Russell than then Bible Students.

As for the Bible Students, I hate to tar you all with one brush, but I'm gonna try to mildly state my feelings. You really don't seem all that different from the Witnesses in many ways. You both sincerely believe in your respective "faithful slave/steward" and you are quite firm in that. Neither seems all that willing to really search the depths of God's Word for Truth. Someone has already done it and all you need is in the Volumes or the WT CD-ROM. I hope you can understand that many of us here are no longer of that frame of mind.

After getting DF'd I found myself looking around and asking "now what". I didn't really look at the "big box" religions but I did take a peek at some of the smaller more autonomous groups, like the so-called "2x2"'s and of course the Bible Students. I guess what turned me away was that elitist mentality that pervaded the WT manifested itself in these religions in some degree. It was the aura of "we have the whole truth and others do not" that turned me off. I'm just not interested in trading one faithful slave for another.

I hope I'm not causing offense. I'm just trying to share my feelings in the spirit of love and understanding.

Your brother,

anthony

Sr Martha, do you mean it's a privilege so long as you agree with certain people? That's like the WT. But as soon as you start to ask questions, you'll find yourself the victim of counseling. THat's not the freedom which is in Christ. That's politics.

I don't see anything wrong with posting a link to BS stuff or anything that might be Bible related. Nobody has to go to the link if he/she does not want too. I think the only links that should not be up are immoral, crude, rude etc.. Any topic should be openly discussed just like you would talk to someone at a door. This is a open forum just like field service or a bible study people should feel free to ask or discuss anything that has to do with the bible or Christianity in general. I would agree Buddism or the like should not be discussed because the DB is not about that but if a Buddist came on and wanted to discuss the bible then great. But should he try and teach buddism then this is not the place.

If someone came on the DB and wanted to talk about the trinity they should be allowed to talk about it. I personally do not care to talk about it. So if someone comes on and starts talking about it, I can just not get involved with the conversation. Those of you who want to discuss or debate it can.

I think you have to decide like Watchman did what the guidelines are but unlike him we must stick to them or what happened over there WILL happen over here. Also I think you have to decide what this forum is. What do I mean? Is this forum like field service or like a meeting? If it is like field service then it must be an open forum and only immoral, crude, rude etc.. postings and people should be monitored. If it is like a formal meeting then guidelines must be set as to what can be discussed. In Paltalk we have what I would call more like formal meetings. We can hear and talk to each other, pray together and decide what topic we are going to discuss.

In a forum it is hard to have a formal way about things. I think it serves more as a tool to discuss and sharpen ourselves with those who might not agree exactly with our own understanding and can give us things to think about and visa/versa. So a forum is somewhat like a meeting but not really. It is very informal due to the lack of any true interaction with people as far as voices, hearing, touching, censing peoples emotions and feelings. Many times a post is misunderstood because it is hard to tell the mood or intent of the person just by what is written.

Watcher I agree that everyone needs guidance. Babes in the word need guidance but most of us here are not babes in the word but we are sorting through the guidance we have received and been taught, checking it with God's word and making sure of the inspired expression. If you are sure of what you know and understand that is great but I don't think all of us are so sure. We know the truth that sets us free and that is enough for some of us now. Not that we cannot learn more or learn from anyone else.

Well thats enough said by me for now.:quiet:

"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them." Matt 18:20
http://www.bibletoday .com/bg_frames.htm

I believe if you read most of my postings, I use scripture and explain as I see it. Nobody seems to reason on scriptures, they just post other ones that I also agree with, but that are not the scriptures being discussed.

I quoted scriptures regarding the presense. All I got was a "thank you." That is reasoning? As is was in the days of Noah so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. That scripture shows people will not know he is here. IT does not say before the days of the son of Man.

Regarding teachers. All I get is that believers are members of the body? Where does that disanull the need for teachers? Apostles first, then prophets, then teachers. The best doctors know they still need teachers.


To say Bible Students don't use the Bible is nuts. Scripture interprets scripture.
Go to a convention. Most have laptops with e-sword and 20+ versions and the scriptures fly. Brothers are not shy about confronting a speaker about a talk that they don't agree with. Half of the convention time is fellowship. Not like the dead JW conventions, where I sit in the bleachers asking the Lord to kill me now.
God bless.