Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

I would like some thoughts on whether or not the rule of partaking of the lords' supper after sunset should be applied as it was with the passover? Is it neccessary or is it more tradition?

Here are some of my thoughts. The first time it was celibrated was on the passover which would naturally be after sunset as commanded by God. Did this neccessarily mean that it would be an annual event and would be celibrated in the same manner as the passover? What are the exact commands given by Jesus and the apostles regarding the lord's supper?

Let us first look at what Jesus said in regard to this event.

Luke 22:19 "Keep doing this in remembrance of me"

This is the ONLY command Jesus gave regarding the lord's evening meal.

What did Paul say?

Keep doing this, as often as YOU drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.


Paul says as often as you eat and drink it. There is no commands for this to be an annual event or that it must be done after sunset. Now saying it should be an annual event and be done after sun down because it was instituted on the passover may be logical and sensible but is it commanded in the bible to be celibrated in such a way? I would have to say no.

The Passover was to be done in very specific way and was a requirement of all Israelites to celibrated and partake. Christians likewise must partake of the evening meal. (see John 6:53) but nothing is commanded to them as to how often to eat and drink or whether it should be done after sunset.

So many questions could be raised for how to observe the Lord's Supper:

One glass or many glasses?
Regular Bread or Unleavened Bread?
Fermented Wine or Unfermented Grape Juice?
As a shared meal? Pasta or Paschal Lamb?
Seated or reclining?

Every religion has there own custom in regards to it and one of the earliest variance in Christianity was about if it should be observered annually or weekly.  Sadly some denominations today have split over the different preferences for the Lord's Supper.

But I think it is purposely left vague since Christianity is not about rules.  To me the important thing is that we do it, that Christ is the center of it, that we do it with others, and that we don't bring dishonor to the occassion by impure conduct or disharmony by violating what the emblems stand for.

That being said, all Christians hold this coming season sacred and it is only natural that our thoughts are turned toward Jesus and what his death and resurrection accomplished.   So while I typically observe the Lord's Supper weekly this annual one will always be more dear to me for those reasons.

Since this event is about the body of Christ, as a body there should be harmony and agreement.   That is why I think that as a congregation we should stick to after sundown on Passover for the sake of those that still keep the JW tradition. (I'm assuming some still feel this way? Am I wrong?)

Lord's Supper.

(Not Lord's Breakfast.)

(Not Lord's Lunch.)

grin...

Lord's Supper.

(Not Lord's Snack.)

:D

The only reason I brought this up was because of the memorial being online and the hassel of time differences and sundowns. It would be great if we could all meet together and not worry about sundown! It would make it easier for some who would otherwise have to come at times between 12 - 3am! We could possibly have everyone together at the same time if the sundown thing was not a matter of concern or everyone could at least come at a reasonable hour and we could still have two groups.

I see the sundown thing as a tradition that is keeping us from celebrating together. There is no command for this to be applied to the lord's rememberance.

Lord's Supper.

(Not Lord's Observation.)

:snack:

I would just like to make a weeeee little comment and then stick my nose right back out ... :love::love:

Was it not in the EVENING that the first passover was celebrated?
Was it not continued to be done in this way years after?

In 1Cor. 11:20 Paul makes mention of the CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION getting together for Lord's EVENING meal ...

20 Therefore, when YOU come together to one place, it is not possible to eat the Lord’s evening meal.

a wee bit further on in verse 23-26 again showing this 'celebration' or 'memorial' took place at NIGHT ...

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also handed on to YOU, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was going to be handed over took a loaf 24 and, after giving thanks, he broke it and said: “This means my body which is in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 25 He did likewise respecting the cup also, after he had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood. Keep doing this, as often as YOU drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.

It would SEEM to me ... that we should strive to keep as close to the actual way it was celebrated back THEN ... TODAY ... for the Scriptures were written for US so as to know how we should walk in our worship of our God and honor his most precious Son ... our Lord Jesus ...

This is of course just my OPINION ... and as ya'll know ... opinions are like NOSES ... everyone has one ... (at least I hope so) ... so now I will just shove my little nose out of the way so that someone else can express their views ...:love::redface:

Luv as always ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

Just my little opinion ... since the time approaches. While there is much that I object to rule-mongering over precision arrangements ... the managing of thousands, even millions of Christians, in a world-wide arrangement requires a little order, I guess. I agree that Chuck has a valid point, but saying a particular time is not valid because no further mention is made is to me just as much an error as adding rules where none formerly existed. If Chuck chooses to eat and drink while meeting with others in a different time zone and it doesn't happen to be dark, then he has his own conscience before God to live with. If his conscience doesn't bother him in his spiritual growth, then who are we to wish him condemnation? Personally, I prefer dark.
Love,
sw

Yeah, me and my wife were talking about this last night. It's funny how little instruction there is regarding the Lord's Supper. From Paul's letter to the Corinthians we can gather several things about how the first century Christians probably held the supper though.

1. They had a full meal.
2. They seemed to do it more often than once a year.
3. They did it as a group.

That's about as much as I can gather. Whether it must be on Passover, or once a week/month/year is left out. Whether we must use certain bread and wine is left out. Whether it be at sundown is left out.

Hi Warmth :friends: I have given this a bit of thought too and agree with you--I am thinking that what matters is the heart and motive--love and appreciation is always loved and appreciated :) --wonderful to 'see' you Andrew :grouphug:

Hello friends ..:hug:

Just another insight into this ... and 2 more cents.:giverose:

According to Jewish scholars the evening was the beginning of a new day .. not the morning as we might assume and so this evening being a new day seems to reflect the coming of a new way ..

Jesus was the bright morning star and the light in this dark place ( the world ) .. all of these expressions and applications are significant as pointed out in all the prophets.

If sundown is mentioned in the scriptures .. there is a reason for it ..

Certain words are not put there just to throw us into confussion .. but need to be researched .

Just a few scriptures that show a continuation of this ordinance.

Exodus 13:9-11 (New American Standard Bible)
9"And it shall serve as a sign to you on your hand, and as a reminder on your forehead, that the law of the LORD may be in your mouth; for with a powerful hand the LORD brought you out of Egypt.

10"Therefore, you shall keep this ordinance at its appointed time from year to year.

1 Samuel 2:19
And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.1 Samuel 2:18-20

Zechariah 14:16
Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zechariah 14:15-17


Somehow there seems to be a patern here ... one that needs to be taken into account and even tho these speak about days gone by, they still have a future application when it comes to the sacrifice and it's rememberance.

with much affection, LC :heartbeat:

WOTS,

This is one of the things that I'm beginning to appreciate more and more is how the NT is almost purposely vague in some respects when it comes to systematic worship.   It isn't like a step-by-step instruction manual on how/when/where to have a meeting, observe the Lord's evening meal, conduct a baptism, etc.  Now contrast this with the Law that spelled out details on how to observe these religious festivals, perform sacrificies, etc.

We have a great freedom in Jesus to worship in spirit and truth.

I don't know Greek so I could be wrong but my understanding is that the Greek word phago, translated here as "evening meal" simply means, "main/primary/chief meal".   In that culture this meal was generally at night, after the work day, so translators will translate it at as "evening meal" or sometimes "supper".

(As a side point: Since it does though mean "main meal" that kind of puts a damper on the whole bit of a cracker, thimble of wine tradition.)

Thanks Anthony, you are right.

The word we need to look at is deipnon
According to my dictionary it means , a meal, mealtime, main meal.
I believe there is another word  dorpon which means "the late one".

This word signifying a late meal is not used.

So the meaning  of deipnon seems to infer that a full meal with others took place, and does not suggest the timing, though in a rural community, it was probably in the evening when everyone had finished work and was home.

Communion meal would be a good translation,  if it did not give us a catholic idea of wafers which the stick to the roof of the mouth whilst the priest is quaffing the wine.

"Supper" is definately a poor translation.
Main meal or dinner is better.

Love vicky

1 Corinthians 11:33...

"Consequently, my brothers, when YOU come together to eat [it], wait for one another. If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, that YOU may not come together for judgment...."

:eat: