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Hello everyone,

I am very busy this time of year since I am a farmer, however I happened to have a slight change in how I'm understanding this vs in Rev with the 4 horses but mainly the third one. I now believe this vision is a symbol for the great inbalance of wealth happening today in the world. The scale is symboling the hugh, sick imbalance between the rich and the poor. While millions have all thier money go to pay for food, the rich of the world get to have everything they want without limit. "do not harm the oil and wine" in the past these were always the foods for the rich class. So we have the two events happening at the *same* time rather than one before the other. While millions are staving 1000s are feasting like kings of old.

With great imbalance also comes the power for a great storm.

Thus I now realize this horse has been riding for many years and the fourth we see him in the news every day.

Digging


I think you are right.. the protests in the US and in Muslim nations is about this...
I have a moment so would like to add some more thoughts.

The four horses are an illustration of a repeating pattern with humankinds behavior.

A group of people begin to 'united' under some kind of leader (1), then they form a 'civilization'....which leads to the formation of an army(2) which allows the development of a two tiered class of wealth (3) and these three events lead right into the 4th horse because the system is so unbalanced and out of harmony with Gods will. Now it would seem these horsemen have 'ridden' in spots all over the earth at different times in history...however now in our day it would seem they started to ride the world. I feel starting at the beginning of the industrial age with the greatest armies and greatest gap between the rich and poor ever seen in history, which is now leading to all the other massive problems, in fact causing all the problems. It is harder for us to see because we live closer to the oil and wine consumers.

The 5th seal I believe was opened when the 'bible' was made available to mankind again, near the beginning of the industrial age. Thus I feel we are at the 6th seal, 6th trumpet, and 6th bowl.

Digging
Thanks for the insights.

Yes the riders have been going strong, as the beasts of the earth come from the very same place that you talk about.

We people become a mob, a cancer when we unite and force others to our will.

We eat up and destroy all other cells in christs body.

edited to add,

we treat the symptoms of this world and never the cause of the problem.

we creat wealth to feed ourselves, we build so we can be comfortable and then things get out of control.
the objects we seek/ build and grow to sustain life become venerated above life.
Hence greed, love of money, social status.
they all gain more imoprtance then people lives.
You won't hear this on any mainstream news!!! (Nuclear Fallout)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMXvpWoHz...r_embedded

:readthis:
Yes she is great!

I listened to her on the radio she made me cry because it was the first time |I could clearly see how every single living thing including myself is so close to death because of this. I was reading something else about Japan it would seem they really should expand the danger zone around the reactors, but the gov't hasn't because the main train lines and large freeway would have to be cut of thus dividing Japan in two. Thier time as an industrial nation has ended but the elites will fight against that ending. I personally feel the grossly wealthy of the world are a very evil power driving mankind much farther than they would normally have gone. Like the demons that entered into the herd of swine and drove they off the cliff to death.

Digging
For me, something interesting happened when I payed attention to who released the four horsemen. It was the four living creatures, and a specific living creature is assigned to releasing a specific horse.

This might be worth another thread. Now I have my theory on what this is showing...but curious if anyone else sees anything there.

gogh Wrote:
You won't hear this on any mainstream news!!! (Nuclear Fallout)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMXvpWoHz...r_embedded

:readthis:


Thanks Gogh. She is certainly compelling.

Heres an article that might be able to put her perspective in perspective.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/...sled-world

Please feel free to talk about it here CoMankind what do you see with the horsemen??

Digging

digging Wrote:
Please feel free to talk about it here CoMankind what do you see with the horsemen??

Digging


Well - this isn't specifically about black scales, so I don't want to hijack the thread, but here you go:


The Four Living Creatures [Rev 4, Ez 1,9]:
These have very little description in Revelation, but Ezekiel sees them as well, referring to them as cherubim. They are mechanical in nature, on wheels, with eyes all around. They move like puppets, front to back, side to side. They don’t seem to have the persona of an angel; in fact, Revelation refers to them distinctly as “living creatures” giving the impression of something almost earthly.

These do not appear to be powerful angels. They appear instead to represent something more complex, something operational. These four creatures are likely, IMO, the spirit-controlled organizations of God.

They have four different heads:

Bear/Ox: The earthly ‘muscle’ of God. Persia and Rome are examples of nations the Ox controls.

Lion: The anointed nation of God. The Lion of Judah. This is Israel, possibly organized religion on the whole?

Man: Individuals that compose mankind. Daniel saw the Lion stand as a man, and the man was given a heart (Dan 7:4) which is where the law was written now, according to Heb 8:10.

Eagle: The angelic organization of God. They are often presented as birds and specifically eagles in scripture.


The Four Horsemen:

These are released after the opening of the first seal by the Lamb, identified as the resurrected Jesus. The riders are Conquest, War, Famine and Death. The four living creatures notably command them. Historically they have been identified as three demonic riders and Jesus, but I'm not so sure about that....

Conquest: Many feel that since he has a crown, that this must be Jesus. But it creates a strange paradox, even in a vision such as this, where the Lamb is releasing the personage of himself. It is the first living creature, the Lion or Israel, who called this rider. If it’s not Jesus, then the only other persons described as kings who conquer are the saints. Jesus indeed gave them that authority to conquer the world, thus he had the authority to give the rider the crown. This, IMO, would have been the apostles while on earth who came out of Israel - the Lion.

War: Commanded by the second living creature, the Ox, who represents God’s muscle on earth. This represents literal warring or battles between nations and peoples on earth. This does not need to be demonic - just as Cyrus was manipulated by God.

Famine: Commanded by the third living creature, the Man. This is a problem created by greed of man, and is controlled through their individual hearts.

Death: Called by the fourth living creature, the Eagle, the spirit organization. Either angels or more likely demons are given authority to kill through war, famine, plague and even wild beasts.

I see, well not sure what to say back on that I will think on it.

However the part about the 1st rider having a crown, the heads of the beast also have crowns or diadems, so I see that leaving it open as a symbol for mankinds method of rule apart from God.

Recall in Rev 13:7 the beast makes war with the saints and overcomes them, and gains authority over all nations. That seems to be simular to the 1st horseman?

Remember I am of the belief Revelation is occuring now.

Digging

digging Wrote:
I see, well not sure what to say back on that I will think on it.

However the part about the 1st rider having a crown, the heads of the beast also have crowns or diadems, so I see that leaving it open as a symbol for mankinds method of rule apart from God.

Recall in Rev 13:7 the beast makes war with the saints and overcomes them, and gains authority over all nations. That seems to be simular to the 1st horseman?

Remember I am of the belief Revelation is occuring now.

Digging



Digging - Yep, absolutely. Not trying to get into the past/future debate. But I guess the point is that there's probably a connection between the living creatures and the horsemen.

I'm not sure if a "white" horse would be used to depict something earthly or ungodly. But, it's certainly possible. There are crowns all over the Bible, that's for sure.

As for the white horse the rider has a bow not a sword as Christ is often seen with. For myself the white is more to show how people view this rider, just like how they worship the beast and think the beast is so great 'who can war against the beast'.

At this time I see all the main three; seals, trumpets, bowls as the human caused events leading up to the return of Christ at the 7th seal/trumpet/bowl.

Digging
Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I think I’m in the minority camp that believes none of the four horses have started to ride yet. They ride for the duration of the great tribulation. My reasoning is based on Revelation showing that all the seals open before any trumpets start to blow:

Rev 8:1-2 “And when He opened the seventh seal, a silence occurred in Heaven, about a half hour. And I saw the seven angels who stood before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.”

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels having the seven trumpets prepared themselves, that they might trumpet.

With this in mind, here are my thoughts concerning the black horse of Revelation that is seen riding at the 3rd seal:

Black Horse



Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a balance (zugos) in his hand.

Revelation 6:5 – G2218 – Greek zugos: servitude, coupling

Webster's Dictionary: servitude - a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.

http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2218

1. a yoke – a yoke that is put on draught cattle; metaphor used of any burden or bondage as that of slavery
2. of troublesome laws imposed on one, esp. of the Mosaic law, hence the name is so transferred to the commands of Christ as to contrast them with the commands of the Pharisees which were a veritable 'yoke'; yet even Christ's commands must be submitted to, though easier to be kept

1. a balance, pair of scales

Here are the other verses in the New Testament that also use this word zugos:

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke (zugos) upon you, and learn of me….

Matthew 11:30 For my yoke (zugos) is easy, and my burden is light.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt God, to put a yoke (zugos) upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke (zugos) of bondage.

1Timothy 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke (zugos) count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

Like most Christians, I always assumed that the balances only meant expensive or scarce food during the trib, but this research seems to confirm what I suspect is the real purpose of the horses: War, bondage, and death to those who don't accept the False Messiah or his world religion.

The second beast of Revelation 13 commands that a mark be put on men (Rev 13:15-16). If they don't accept the mark, they cannot buy or sell. This mark becomes a type of bondage or yoke and could be compared to the balance that the rider on the black horse carries. It becomes a way to measure and impose a condition on men that will not only affect the ability to buy and sell the things necessary for life, but it becomes the means by which men determine the God they will serve:

Rev 16:2 “And the first went away and poured out his cup onto the earth. And it came to be a malignant and painful sore on the men, the ones having the mark of the beast, and the ones worshipping its image.”

Rev 19:20-21 “And the beast was seized, and with this one the false prophet doing the signs before it, by which he led astray those having received the mark of the beast, and those worshipping its image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword of the One sitting on the horse, the sword having gone forth from His mouth. And all the birds were filled from their flesh.

Rev 20:4 “And I saw thrones, and they sat on them. And judgment was given to them, and the souls of the ones having been beheaded because of the witness of Jesus, and because of the Word of God, and who have not worshipped the beast nor its image, and had not received the mark on the forehead and on their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
Hi digging

digging Wrote:
However the part about the 1st rider having a crown, the heads of the beast also have crowns or diadems, so I see that leaving it open as a symbol for mankinds method of rule apart from God.


Faithful ones in Christ wear a crown, and also conquer.

"I am coming soon; hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. He who conquers..." (Rev 3:11,12)

"And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and its rider had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer." (6:2)

Also, the 24 elders wear crowns:

"Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." (4:4)

I'll admit the first horseman seems somewhat ambiguous. However, it COULD also represent all the holy ones in Christ.

In that case, the horsemen collectively represent... the FAITHFUL, WAR, FAMINE, DEATH... followed by MARTYRS.

I'd suggest this parallels what Jesus talked about in Matthew 24... war, famine, death, endurance, some being killed for Christ... all before the fleeing from Judea.

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