Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Are there Christians who are born again and Christians who are not born again? Are there anointed Christians who partake of the Lords meal and non-anointed Christians who do not partake? Are there Christians that go to heaven and Christians that stay on Earth? Jehovah's Witnesses would say YES to all three of these questions. What does Gods word the Bible tell us?

Jesus Christ said at John 3:3 “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Since all Christians pray for Gods Kingdom to come wouldn't all Christians expect to see Gods Kingdom? It certainly appears that being "born again" is required by Christ in order for anyone to be a Christian.

How about anointed Christians who partake of the  Lords meal.  Are their Christians who are not required to partake of this? Jesus said at John 6:53, "Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves." That sounds very clear does it not. Certainly this would be a requirement for all Christians partaking of the Lords meal.

Are their some Christians with a heavenly hope and some with an Earthly hope? Jesus said at John 14:2-3, "In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." So Jesus made it clear that the hope for all Christians is to live with Christ and his father in heaven, Jesus never spoke of another hope for his Christian followers. This does not mean that nobody will live on Earth.  However for true Christians the hope is a heavenly one.

Jehovah's Witnesses have made over 6 million people today believe that they are true Christians with a Earthly hope. They do not partake of the Lords meal and they are not born again.  Christ is not their mediator but man is. They bow down to what they call, "the faithful and discreet Slave".

Hopefully those who are Jehovah's Witnesses will see the lies they are being taught and come into a real relationship with Christ Jesus.

Christian love,
Greybeard :read:

Hi Greybeard, I see the Scriptures have given you all the correct answers!!!

Here are few more verses that support your thoughts.

As to who is "born again" another way of saying this is "born of God".

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Rom 8
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Pretty straight forward stuff. One is born again if the spirit of God/Christ/HS dwells in that person. They are spiritually alive formerly they were dead in trespasses against a Holy God. I say trespasses since that means we each personally and willfully have broken God's law. Therefore the law shows us the need of a personal Saviour and leads repentant sinners to Christ.

So that those who are "In Christ" have His righteoussness applied to them ( for they have NONE of their own ) those who have put their trust in Him that He died in their place taking their punishment upon Himself. ( Substitutionary atonement)

The Heavenly Hope

2 Corinthians 5
1 For we ( Believers) know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

The Judgment Seat of Christ

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

So when believers die they are absent from their current physical bodies and present with Christ in a new body ( building from God ) ( habitation from Heaven )

All saints break bread together. Paul gives the Corinthians a blast for the way there were divisions at the Lord's Supper.



1 cor 11

17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.



BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

Hi BethelBoy,

Thank you for your post. That was good. I myself have recently left JW's. You might even say I am still in the process of fading out. I understand one needs to be born again or born of God to be a true Christian and hopefully that can happen in the near future for me. At this time honestly I am not sure how to go about it. I have asked our Lord Christ Jesus to be my savior and forgive me of my sins and be my mediator. I am not really sure where I am at in this process. I do not yet feel comfortable in any churches around here so...

Anyway, thank you again!
Christian love,
Greybeard

Greybeard,

You are not alone.

Christianity has become so corrupted, hypocritical and thoroughly undermined that it is impossible to identify anything significant that is righteous.

Your individualistic approach is probably the right thing to do for the time being.

Jesus Christ implied this would be the case for those who recognised the situation.


Revelation 3:17-20
17 Because you say: “I am rich and have acquired riches and do not need anything at all,” but you do not know you are miserable and pitiable and poor and blind and naked, 18 I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire that you may become rich, and white outer garments that you may become dressed and that the shame of your nakedness may not become manifested, and eyesalve to rub in your eyes that you may see.
19 “‘All those for whom I have affection I reprove and discipline. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Look! I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into his [house] and take the evening meal with him and he with me.


Does that sound like a whole congregation celebrating the evening meal?

It definitely does not sound like all the Laodician congregation would be convinced.

In my opinion it is more important who you do not celebrate the memorial with than who you do.

I don't think Jesus Christ was talking about a Pepsi and a Burger in the following warning for the very end time:


Matthew 24:48-51
48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.


Don't let Jesus Christ find you "eating and drinking" with the hypocrites!



In Christ


abe

Greybeard,

As an isolated individualistic Christian myself there is something that I am very much looking forward to that was prophecied to happen in the final part of the days:

Isaiah 2:1-4
The thing that Isaiah the son of A´moz visioned concerning Judah and Jerusalem: 2 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. 3 And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples.


My isolated Christian condition is due to what I have seen happen to Christianity.

I expect this will eventually be set straight.

When it is, I will no longer be isolated.


In Christ

abe

Hi Abe,

Do you believe Jesus will return to Jerusalem and then, "render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples?"

Jesus said he would be with us till the conclusion of this system of things. I can't help but wonder if he is with any particular group of christians. Probably not but I can't help but feel their must be a congregation with elders and M servants. I'm still searching...

Christian love,
Greybeard

Romans 16:13 - "Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord,"

Here is Rufus - specifically singled out. I have yet to see anywhere, a discussion on the difference between the words saved, called and chosen. There is a slight difference. Are all that are saved chosen or called?

And there is Ex 19:4-6 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

Was everybody going to be a priest - of course not - but the wtbt$ just can't see it.
Or don't want to. It's just a means to maintain the hierarchy with the mythological fds and gb. All are of the household of faith and the body of Christ. And partaking of emblems has nothing to do with which group one belongs to. All become Israel thru baptism.

But some have been called to serve. Shalom Aleichem.

"Torah and grace coexist today, G-d’s Law requires us to perform, God’s Grace forgives us when we’ve tried and failed."