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donbodo

02-27-2007, 06:11 PM

Quote:
Hello Donbodo... Dare I point out that Paul was talking about this after the death of Christ..


Surely you're not saying that Paul declared a gospel different than the one Jesus declared, are you?

My impression is that Paul is trying to preserve the gospel and prevent it from being changed. I would think that he himself would not have tried to change it from Jesus' gospel.

And if Paul was preaching the same gospel as Christ, then my point stands. "This" good news was the same good news that Jesus taught his apostles, namely, the kingdom has drawn near, Jesus is raised from the dead, and he is the king of that kingdom (all of which Jesus himself taught).

observant

02-28-2007, 12:46 AM

Quote:
Surely you're not saying that Paul declared a gospel different than the one Jesus declared, are you?

My impression is that Paul is trying to preserve the gospel and prevent it from being changed. I would think that he himself would not have tried to change it from Jesus' gospel.


Not at all.  Just pointing out the Fact that When Jesus said to his apostles "this Good News of the Kingdom" his apostles did not have a full understanding of the Good News.  They didn't even understand the Jesus Had to die.  After his death and the Spirit was poured out, the spirit taught them understanding.  They were able to preach the Kingodom in understanding.

So to me, the arguement that is was the 'same' gospel message that Jesus taught, and they would understand that.. seems a little flimsy.  Also, Why mention it as a sign of the last days if it was not to be a memorable 'last days' event, like the other signs.  

Yes the message of Jesus has been preach, and continue to be.  My feeling is that there is more in store.  

Lynn

donbodo

02-28-2007, 09:08 PM

observant Wrote:
Just pointing out the Fact that When Jesus said to his apostles "this Good News of the Kingdom" his apostles did not have a full understanding of the Good News. They didn't even understand the Jesus Had to die. After his death and the Spirit was poured out, the spirit taught them understanding. They were able to preach the Kingodom in understanding.


Let's say you're right. Let's say that the good news became clearer after Christ died. You still have to deal with Paul's words that condemn the preaching of any good news beyond what the apostles taught. That does not coincide with your view that there would be a new and different good news.

Quote:
Also, Why mention it as a sign of the last days if it was not to be a memorable 'last days' event, like the other signs.


According to the scripture, the preaching of the good news in all the inhabited earth is the sign, not the good news itself.

observant

03-01-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:
Let's say you're right. Let's say that the good news became clearer after Christ died. You still have to deal with Paul's words that condemn the preaching of any good news beyond what the apostles taught. That does not coincide with your view that there would be a new and different good news.


Hello Donbodo!

Beyond what the apostles taught... Yes, they really began their ministry after the death of Christ.. Note that they started the work, Paul was included in that work during the life time of the Apostles.  I don't believe the "new" message will be anything beyond what the apostles taught!  Just a new presentation.  Different?  The message of the Christ is not different.. it is consistant.

Now saying that... Just because I believe that the fufillment of the Matt 24:14 is it's own entity, does not mean that I feel it will not point to the Christ.  I feel there will be a notable work, with a specific message, preached through out the earth, before the end.  Just that simple.

And just to add another point of debate,.. I feel it will be done by the "two Witnesses" group.

Love to all
Lynn

Artcritic

04-14-2007, 02:26 PM

anthony Wrote:
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole inhabited earth as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. - Matthew 24:14

I keep running into the thought expressed by some that the preaching work that Jesus speaks about at Matthew 24:14 is some sort of future preaching work.   I would be interested to know the basis for that idea.

Here are my thoughts:

At Matthew 28:19,20 Jesus gives the grand commission - "Go there and make disciples of all nations ... teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you."   So there is a preaching work that begins just after Jesus' ascension.

Does this preaching work differ from the preaching work spoken about at Matthew 24:14?  

I don't think so because the message is the same.   It is the message of "the Kingdom" and it is for all nations.  During his own ministry Jesus was preparing his twelve apostles (sent ones, missionaries) in order to preach this message.   When Jesus sent them out he gave them the "good news" message which was, "The kingdom of heaven has come near" (Matthew 10:7)  This message than was the "good news of the kingdom".  Later Jesus would select 70 other disciples and send them out with the same message; "The kingdom of God has come near you" (Luke 10:9) Now what about the message of that Jesus commissions just before his ascending to Heaven?  It too is a message regarding the Kingdom; specifically, Jesus' enthronement as King. Before they had gone out with the message that the Kingdom has drawn near and now the thrilling news is the Kingdom has become a reality. Jesus says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been give to me" (Matthew 28:18)  

So to review:


  1. Jesus sends the twelve apostles preaching the "good news of the Kingdom" to Israel.
  2. Jesus sends the 70 out preaching the good news of the Kingdom to Israel.
  3. Jesus commissions his apostles and disciples to preach the good news of the kingdom to the nations.


With this in mind Matthew 24:14 seems to be the fulfillment of what Jesus has been preparing his disciples to do - that is to preach the kingdom message to Israel and all nations.   Jesus is here prophesying that they would successfully fulfill his commission to take the "good news of the Kingdom to all the nations" before the end would come.   Matthew 24:14 seems more like the culmination of the work that had started when Jesus was on earth and then got kicked off in a big way with the Christian congregation.

After Jesus ascension to Heaven the Good News of Jesus' kingship was preached to Judea and Galilee, then to Samaria and the Jewish Diaspora. The good news was carried by Paul to many parts of the Gentile world.  As we approach the time of the end of the Jewish system (70AD) the good news was preached to all parts of the Roman empire, possibly even coming so far as Britannia. There is evidence also that the message was taken even beyond to places like India and China.   Now in our day the good news has gone out to all parts of the Globe.

Are we today having a share in the disciple making work and promoting the "good news of the Kingdom" and of its risen King, Christ Jesus?   It would be a shame if we missed out on Jesus' commission while awaiting some sort of future preaching work.  

"How are they to call on one they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of? And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them?  And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How timely is the arrival of those who proclaim the good news.” - Romans 10:14,15


Well done Anthony
You said "At Matthew 28:19,20 Jesus gives the grand commission - "Go there and make disciples of all nations ... teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you." So there is a preaching work that begins just after Jesus' ascension.

If Jesus became a king in 33ce (and he did according to the scr) then the preaching work would take on a more important tone in that Jesus was now a king. "kingdom of the son of his love" The preaching work would reflect that important event. This work was greater in the sense that it would cover many generations unlike Jesus kingdom preaching. Yes he would be with true Christians in the preaching work from 33ce up till our day.

John

04-14-2007, 04:53 PM
Maybe the following scripture could be a clue?

"then {comes} the END, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power." - 1 Cor 15:24 NASB

This, of course is speaking of after the 1,000 years have ended and the kingdom is handed over the Father.

Could Mat 24:14 possibly have it's fulfillment at that time???:thinking:

Linda

04-14-2007, 06:59 PM
The gospel is eternal. The eternal effect of it, is the power of the New Covenant.

Rev 14:6   And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;  
Rev 14:7   and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters."  

And perhaps, so is the judgement eternal. We are living in an eternal age, the New Covenant.

Rev 22:10   And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.  
Rev 22:11   "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."  
Rev 22:12   "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward {is} with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Rev 22:13   "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Rev 22:14   Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.  
Rev 22:15   Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.  
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