Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Greetings dear Friends.....

No matter where...or who...or what we are doing we can worship the Father and the Son .....as the good samaritan was used as an example in the scriptures...

Some good pious people sit within the walls of religion and worship words....Mad artist has said some things I've taken exception to...but when he made a statement..something on the lines of do we worship words....made me stop and think....yes...its about words....but its also about actions and deeds...

That is why...I'm so ready to live the Christain life....isn't that what the early Christains did....I don't think they sat and talked so much about the correct doctrines...but they lived the Christ life...

Not to say that discussing spiritual matters aren't the heart of going out and doing...yes....but when we live to debate or to argue about words...this is defeating the power of Christ and taking away the Spirit.

Does this make sense or am I off base....:confused:

Hi Sandi,
It is knowledge beyond words Sandi. In Christ we have come to know God's love and we love him in return.

The prime purpose for the Son of God coming to earth is revealed in John 3  ...it is because of God's love for us...for mankind...so we should become children of God and be able to say,"Abba Father".  

We can get sidetracked by trying to get a handle on all prophecy or getting taken up by some neat explanation of scripture, however, the central truth is quite simple.....we need to be like Christ, reciprocate his love and love the Father and have self sacrificing love for others....this is what he is drawing us to....  Not to clever words, good explanations and special knowledge or having an explanation of Revelation off pat..  We shall not know what a lot of the scriptures mean intil the prophecies are actually fulfilled.  

IMHO Those who are dogmatic in their explanations of scripture are on an ego trip and/or enamoured of their own wisdom.

The Father is in the Son by Spirit and that Spirit reaches out to commune with the believer and mankind so we can walk with and be one with God.

Eventually, in the fullness of time the scales will fall from all our eyes and we shall really know, as in fact we are known.

Like little children our Captain draws us to 'simple' Christlike love for our fellowman....it is no sense worrying of about the intricate details of a passage....we can miss the whole point of Scripture..the fact that in Christ the Father is reaching out to all in love and no one is treated as being of less worth in God's eyes.

Warm Christian love
Derek

Thankyou so much for that Derek....we all need to hear and know it...that if we are being anxious over anything...then are we putting our faith in Christ....I'm learning, it seems I've been anxious for far too long .....Christ has done it all...and what more can we add.....only faith in him....to look to him as the perfecter of our faith....by looking intently at him....we are lead to the Father.:heartbeat:

Take Care of yourself

Sandi

My husband and I were just talking about this. If we are to call ourselves followers of Christ, shouldn't we be Jesus? What did Jesus do? Did him and the apostles just sit around together talking about the kingdom? No. They went out and made disciples. They traveled and preached.

What are we doing? Who are we preaching to? People coming out of the WTS? That's nice and needed. But there are only so many coming out of the WTS. How many more people are we neglecting by just focusing on the few that are ex-JW's?

They do need help, especially because many times, these ones are so bitter and mad that they might lose their faith in God. But we also need to realize that there are billions of people in the world who also are weak or have no faith in God that we need to help.

As for prophecy and doctrine...It's great to talk about prophecy and "truths". But it should not be our main focus. Being smart about the bible is not a requirement to get to God. It can be upbuilding to talk about prophesy and it keeps us on our toes. Keeps in in a good frame of mind. But compare that to how much we talk about love. No, not just love for God and Jesus. But love for the world! God loved the world so much....how much do we love the world?

We sit here and have dicussions that help US. What about what will help the world? Do we have to know a lot to be able to go out and show people Jesus? No way. Ephesians 3:19 says "and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness that God gives". Knowledge is good for little.

We need to quite sitting around talking about how much we love God. We need to get up and GO! Love moves us to action. What good are we if all we do is talk to eachother? How will Jesus be shown to everyone if all of the christians are only concerned with their fellow christians? How will more disciples be made if we don't do it?

What are we, everyone here, doing to tell other people about Jesus?

Anyone?

Dear Nami,
You wrote:

It is so right what you say Nami but it takes a long time getting out of the JW mindset.  Re: counting time and putting our preaching in a special box.

Following Christ covers every facet of our lives and depends on our gifts which have been given us by God.

Prayer will lead you and your dh by Holy Spirit, in the fullness of time, to find the role Christ has for you. Please do not be anxious, you are not being forced into precipitate action by God.  

Nothing we can do will make any difference to our assured salvation.

All our Christian responses are out of a grateful and full heart for God's love for us.

Can you remember what the disciple James said about the kind of worship that is acceptable to God?  I would have a look at that Scripture dear sister.

Remember Dorcas? Was she remembered for her preaching?

Being a Christian is not just preaching.....we try to live our whole lives in love for others...and we fall short many times, I know I do.....by Spirit we are being molded into Christ's image.
(and it's been a long job for me Nami up to now!:D)

So we are striving to imitate Christ Jesus.

Thankfully we have a High Priest who is always in the Father's presence to plead for us because we constantly fall short.



Warm Christian love to you Nami and all
Derek

What did Jesus do??? Well he set the example on how to worship his father Jehovah. He never claimed any worship to him or other. Notice the words to the woman:(John 4:22) “22 YOU worship what YOU do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews.”

Notice that Jesus included himself when said:we worship what we know...so follow the Master....

Also notice the following talk:(John 4:23-24) “23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.””

Hi there nami!:D:hibye:

How sweet of you to be so concerned with the faith of others :siskiss: ... as we are also ... how much this shows our unity in LOVE for mankind :grouphug: ... the SAME LOVE that our Lord had and still has for us woeful sinners ...:heartbeat:

Perhaps it might do your heart good to remind you of something ... and ther reprecussions of that 'something' ...;):love:

Last month we had close to 400,000 page views ... just think about that for a minute ... 400,000!!!! We only had around 130 members at the time ... now more praise and thankfulness to Jehovah ...

So, obviously there are MANY MANY people who are reading and learning and hopefully rebuilding ... or beginning to build ... their faith and love in our God and his Son by some of things discussed here ... yes the not so deep ... and the deep things of our God ...

Jehovah gaves gifts to us ... and each one has a gift according to their capabilities and circumstances ...:thumbsup::present:

If the holy spirit is motivating you and your hubby to 'get out there' in the 'field' and preach ... then by all means you should do so ... this may be YOUR gift ... YOUR ministry ... and what YOUR circumstances allow ...

There are others ... like me ...:happyheart::redface: whose circumstances are not so 'favorable' to 'get out' ... and because of this after having prayed to my God Jehovah for a way to speak to as many as I can about my God and his and the kingdom hope and show as much Christian love as I am able ... IMHO I feel he has made this 'avenue' available to such like ones as I ... and for this I feel RICHLY BLESSED by him!!

Remember my dear sisters ... there are DIFFERENT KINDS OF GIFTS that our God gives ... each according to their ability ... remember the 'talents'?

And so, if you will please pardon me ...:redface: while it is NOT WRONG to encourage us to get out in the 'field' ... perhaps it may cause people to feel inadequate or not 'good Christians' if they cannot ... I know there is one sister here who I think is bed ridden ... or at least 'home ridden' and who cannot 'get out' physically ... but here ... yes here we can let our fingers walk for us to show our love instead of feet ... until such time as our feet can run to keep up to the love we have for our fellowman in our hearts!

Thank you so much for showing us that your love burns like a fire in your bones so much so that you cannot keep it in ...

Remind you of anyone ...?;):whistle:

Lots of love to you and your hubby ... your sis BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

Sometimes I hate the internet because it doesn't get across my feelings properly.:huh: I realized, after reading the comments, that my post sounded forceful. I'm really sorry for that. I should've used smilies to show my tone. Please forgive me for coming across badly.:(

Let me try to explain better. I'll use smilies to help.:)

When I say to go, I only mean showing people Jesus. How? Live his life. Be him. Not going door to door. All I mean is that when we are living our lives, wherever we are, be Jesus. In words and action. That includes taking care of other peoples need, like James says. All of us can do that. Even if we're bedridden or dying. How do we be Jesus? By showing love and compassion to all people. Maybe, just maybe, it'll lead to actually talking about the God, Jesus, and the kingdom. But it isn't the most important thing.

Just show our love for God by helping them to feel that love through us.:heartbeat:

Love,
nami

Hi Nami, I too believe that one of the best way to 'go' so to speak is to be the best that you can be. The best follower Christ. To imulate him and follow his lead. The love we have for our Jehovah, Jesus and our neighbors will shine through. People will look up and notice. It is powerful. Our actions can be so much louder than our words, rehearsed words such as it is. I love how you said it, so I decided to quote it again!! :P:):love::friends:

Salaam, Lou

Sandra,

You are absolutely correct in that early Christians spent more energy on living a Christian life, privately and publically, than arguing about the finer points of doctrine.  

David Bercot, a historian of Early Pre-Nicene Christianity, in his book, "Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up" expresses the idea that the focus on doctrine was part of downfall of early Christian.   He writes:

"In Christianity, theology is the last refuge of a spiritually weak church.  Theology requires no faith, no love, and no sacrifice.   A faithless "Christian" who has no real relationship with God can give mental assent to a list of doctrines, the same as the spiritually strongest Christian can.    So as the church weakened, it began to place greater emphasis on doctrine.   By the end of the third centrury, after an extended period without persecution, bickering between churches over doctrinal issues had become fairly widespread"

I would flash forward to the 21st century and lament that we are still bickering over doctrinal issues instead of focusing on Christian living and faith working through love.  

Derek brought up a very good scripture from James, "The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the stand point of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation..."  (James 1:27)   So as individuals and as a congregation how are we doing in this regard?  

Another scripture that comes to mind is something Jesus himself said, "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, ... teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19)  As individuals and as a congregation are we living out this commission?

So last month we had 400,000 hits on this web-site that is very good and exciting.  So now what?  My personal desire would be that as a group we grow out of this "bickering about doctrine" phase and move on to positive pursuits of living out our faith in powerful ways.    

What good is it if we have a better understanding of prophecy than the Watchtower organization and yet we don't have the same focus on the public teaching?   What good is it if we have a better understanding of doctrine than the Catholic Church and yet we don't have the same focus on charity?

I think that a group we can have our spiritual :cake: and :snack: it too!

You know in looking back on our time spent at the other discussion board I think we learned quite a bit about the Bible and perhaps a better understanding of prophecy and that was great but I think the best experience was helping a brother in need financially.

I know for myself it gives me great peace and joy to give praise to Jesus....I think the Christians became known as Christians because they began following Jesus and putting their faith in him.....the Father has given all authority to him....and I put my faith in him to accomplish his Fathers will...looking intently at him....

Matthew 2:11 And they came into the house and saw the young child with Mary his mother; and they fell down and worshipped him: and opening their treasures they offered unto him gifts.

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and finding him, he said, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?He answered and said, and who is he, Lord that I may believe on him? Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him and he its that speaketh with thee, and he said Lord, I believe....and he worshipped him.

Matthew 14:33 And they that were in the boat worshipped him, saying, of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Luke 24:52 And they worshipped him, and he returned to Jerusalem with great joy

This was Jesus last appearance this scripture is talking about as he ascended to heavan the disciples began to worship Jesus

I can't find the scripture which tell s the angels to worhip Jesus...but by doing this we are putting faith in Jesus as the Son God....this is a testimony to the world that we worship the Father, by also worshipping Jesus..

Acts 1;8 ye shall be my witnesses to the uttermost part of the earth

Jesus is telling this to his disciples right before he ascends to heavan..

We as JW have been taught to be afraid of giving Jesus anything....but this is how we give testimony and make the gospel or good news known is accepting Jesus as the Son of God and praising him....and worshipping him....all to the Fathers glory.

I know some will not agree with me on this....however I've come to this inescapable conclusion and I'm happy with this...as I'm sure many are.

your sister/friend in Christ:heartbeat:

Sandi
Hi Anthony
I just posted and saw we must have been posting at the same time:hibye:I agree..so the next time I post here...I will have some news...that I started a soup kitchen....but seriously something on those lines...even helping our fleshly family ....just helping the less fortunate ones...showing love by taking action to give them something that they are in need of ...or even a word of encouragement..a smile...a flower...a seed to plant...give...give...give

Hi nami.....I've done the same thing....after I posted and went back and read it...and saw how it wasn't really saying what I had in mind...but seemed to saying something else:dontknow::confused:

There are so many ways of being a christian. I have read all the posting on this subject and glean that we are all on the same page. We so desire to praise our dear father Jehovah and follow in Jesus foot steps. Yes there are many ways and we have a variety of talents in which to accomplish these things. Also as has been mentioned we have varying circumstances. So let's continue to do our best in serving Jehovah and following His son's example every day. Regardless how small or great a task do it out of love and for love of others.
My warm Christian greetings to all
Hopeful

:clap:  WOW!!!  Really just wow..

I never thought I would see the day..  

This just reaffirms my trust in our Leader and Our Father..
AS Jesus said "who is my brother" and you guy's just nailed the answer..

We all have it in us..  The deciever just had us all going for awhile. he gave us a prepackaged "christian in a box" religion and voila many people bit..
Christs body is world wide,, already,, waiting to be revealed.. waiting to be released from the Darkness that the devil has put us in..
His body is all those souls out their that are trying to do what is in their hearts.. trying to Please God..  Doctrine has never been anything.   Jesus told us in 2 commandments what to do..

But noooo.... that's to easy for us ... we want it hard and complex..
LOL it's to funny when you think about it.
We have so many issues due to just living evry day, our family background, our lack of "fill in the blank" eg.. self esteem .
That we need to work on ourselves and become the lving breathing temple..  "Some vessel are for noble use and others are just for common use"  But we all serve a purpose. and we can thank God for that.

Hi TD....we really do make it hard on ourselves...or let others make it hard on us when we put our faith other than where it belongs...in the Father and the Son

Take Care