Hello Everyone- :hibye:
I have been talking to JW's in different areas, and one thing that seems to be pretty common is a lot of superstitious beliefs especially when it comes to demons and satan.
So I just wanted to ask why this is? All the talk about paganism and the power of demons is way out of proportion, so what's going on? :dontknow:
Thanks ahead of time.
This thread reminds me of so many rumors I heard when growing up as a Jehovah's Witness, anyone remember these?
1. The rumor that Smurfs were demonic. Especially since a smurf toy at a Kingdom Hall got up and walked around and talked in the middle of a meeting.
2. A Jehovah's Witness couple slacked off on meetings for a while, and then realized the error in it and began attending. After attending their first meeting back, they returned home, and the husband announces "We sure taught Satan a lesson, didn't we!", immediately after which all the objects in the room started flying around chaotically.
3. Or, the one person who was studying with Jehovah's Witnesses who decided to burn her Ouija board, and when she did it screamed.
This thread reminds me of so many rumors I heard when growing up as a Jehovah's Witness, anyone remember these?
1. The rumor that Smurfs were demonic. Especially since a smurf toy at a Kingdom Hall got up and walked around and talked in the middle of a meeting.
2. A Jehovah's Witness couple slacked off on meetings for a while, and then realized the error in it and began attending. After attending their first meeting back, they returned home, and the husband announces "We sure taught Satan a lesson, didn't we!", immediately after which all the objects in the room started flying around chaotically.
3. Or, the one person who was studying with Jehovah's Witnesses who decided to burn her Ouija board, and when she did it screamed.
Seriously? Do these stories still circulate?
I knew a baptist family once that refused to let their kids watch Disney movies because they said the blue genie in Aladdin was demonic.
Maybe it has something to do with all things blue?
Is it true that JW's believe demons can enter homes thru objects? ie. a cross, silverware, art.....
Hi Micah
A quote from 1963 Watchtower article..."Resisting Wicked Spirit Forces"
sub heading "SURROUNDINGS AND ASSOCIATION"
"One troubled by demon attacks should also be aware of objects or articles that may have been given him about the time such attacks began. Practitioners of witchcraft sometimes cast spells on persons by having an object or article brought into the victim’s presence. This brings the victim into contact with the demons. In one case a garment was sent by a voodooist to a victim, and as long as the victim had that garment and wore it, it resulted in demon attacks and movements, especially at night. The removal of this garment resulted in relief. Hence, there may be some article or some individual who is in close contact with the oppressed person, one whom such a person would have to detect as being the channel through whom the demons are trying to take control of him, by reducing him to a state of exhaustion, nervously, mentally and physically.
Hence, it would be most appropriate for one troubled with demon harassment to make an investigation of his surroundings and his local contacts or associates, asking for divine guidance as he does so."
.02,
gogh
yes that is true--never heard of it being a cross but anything that is demonic within itself such as books or witchcrafty and spiritistic things but also through objects that were once owned by people who were under demonic influence. I must say tho I am a believer in demonic activity--
no talking me out of that one... :love:
JWs get this whole subject out of proportion due to a certain mindset. The most major player that contributes to such a mind set is because they take the scriptures in the bible regarding Satan being the ruler of this world to a ridiculous extreme. The reason for that is because it twins with their idea that all of Christendom is wrong, and therefor under Satan's power except, for JWs of course. Most cults also create a paranoid world view because it helps them keep control of the flock and garners a type of obedience which will act in a very cruel way towards those who turn away from its teachings, even family members thus protecting that cults interests and membership.
JWs get this whole subject out of proportion due to a certain mindset. The most major player that contributes to such a mind set is because they take the scriptures in the bible regarding Satan being the ruler of this world to a ridiculous extreme. The reason for that is because it twins with their idea that all of Christendom is wrong, and therefor under Satan's power except, for JWs of course. Most cults also create a paranoid world view because it helps them keep control of the flock and garners a type of obedience which will act in a very cruel way towards those who turn away from its teachings, even family members thus protecting that cults interests and membership.
yep, that about covers it brian.
net-net-net effect of watchtower theology:
1. god is someone to fear and dread; otherwise, he's a-gonna get me. :fear:
2. satan can get me any time and any way he wants; so it's fer sure ... he's a-gonna get me. :fear:
3. where's a poor fella (or girl) gonna go to be safe? :dontknow: nowhere! :angry:
it has been discretely pointed out to me that i left some uncertainty as to my own position concerning the ability for ... "wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places" ... (as sis bruisedreed just reminded us all of that scripture in her post just below this one) to influence and impact humans.
i should have finished with the contrast i was hoping to emphasize, namely ...
watchtower theology contrasts so drastically with a true spiritual perspective, which i would characterize as follows:
god is good. god protects his earthly children. god is more powerful than satan. those who make god their refuge by trusting him always have nothing to fear. in case of apprehensions or strange events, they can go to him immediately in prayer for his strength and assistance.
sorry i wasn't clearer in the first post. :redface:
Hi micah!:hibye:
When it comes to 'wicked spirits' :devil: I do think that we shouldn't overestimate them nor underestimate them ... :giverose:
The scriptures make quite clear that these invisible forces will have a part to play in our lives, both good and bad ones ...
We have a WRESTLING ... and if we want to 'win' the 'fight' we need to be prepared, forewarned, forearmed and on the side of light and right ...
Eph. 6:11,12 ...
“We have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. On this account take up the complete suit of armor from God, that you may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after you have done all things thoroughly, to stand firm.â€
The more I seek to educate myself on this 'spiritual warfare' the more I realize that we WILL have a fight that will affect our lives ... and that NOT NECESSARILY does one have to have an 'object' for them to 'attack' ... for we only have to think of JOB ... I am pretty sure that he didn't have anything but SATAN'S ATTENTION when he found himself under spiritual attack ...
But just as Job won out by REMAINING TRUE TO GOD AND LOYAL ... so we too will win the fight as well!
I would say more but I have to go out and get supper out of the oven before it burns!
:shocked:
Luv to all BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
JWs get this whole subject out of proportion due to a certain mindset. The most major player that contributes to such a mind set is because they take the scriptures in the bible regarding Satan being the ruler of this world to a ridiculous extreme. The reason for that is because it twins with their idea that all of Christendom is wrong, and therefor under Satan's power except, for JWs of course. Most cults also create a paranoid world view because it helps them keep control of the flock and garners a type of obedience which will act in a very cruel way towards those who turn away from its teachings, even family members thus protecting that cults interests and membership.
yep, that about covers it brian.
net-net-net effect of watchtower theology:
1. god is someone to fear and dread; otherwise, he's a-gonna get me. :fear:
2. satan can get me any time and any way he wants; so it's fer sure ... he's a-gonna get me. :fear:
3. where's a poor fella (or girl) gonna go to be safe? :dontknow: nowhere! :angry:
Hmmmm....at the same time, I'd hate to see a minimizing of the dangers. The scriptures do deal with some important guidelines. Here are the main ones:
“‘Do not turn yourselves to the spirit mediums, and do not consult professional foretellers of events, so as to become unclean by them. I am Jehovah YOUR God." -- Leviticus 19:31
“When you are entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to do according to the detestable things of those nations. There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead. For everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable things Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. You should prove yourself faultless with Jehovah your God." -- Deuteronomy 18:9-13
"And it happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a certain servant girl with a spirit, a demon of divination, met us. She used to furnish her masters with much gain by practicing the art of prediction. This [girl] kept following Paul and us and crying out with the words: “These men are slaves of the Most High God, who are publishing to YOU the way of salvation.†This she kept doing for many days. Finally Paul got tired of it and turned and said to the spirit: “I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.†And it came out that very hour." -- Acts 16:16-18
(Interesting, isn't it, that the girl was speaking the truth here. A very good reason for us to "test the spirits to see whether they originate with God".)
"And many of those who had become believers would come and confess and report their practices openly. Indeed, quite a number of those who practiced magical arts brought their books together and burned them up before everybody. And they calculated together the prices of them and found them worth fifty thousand pieces of silver. Thus in a mighty way the word of Jehovah kept growing and prevailing." -- Acts 19:18-20
Those are the biblical guidelines. People can apply them or not as their conscience dictates. Everyone must take responsibility for their own choices.
I, for one, am very grateful that through a study of scripture, I was alerted to these warnings, having never heard anything like it in any of the churches that I attended. And here I was, getting to be quite good at reading palms, cards and tealeaves. In fact, some of my neighbors considered me to be a witch since I was spot on in reading their lives.:whistle:
That being said, many of the JW folks went either one of two ways, both extreme. Either they didn't believe (except for lip-service) in the existence of demonic forces, or they had a pathological fear of them borne of excited gossip and previous superstition. Neither extreme is healthy.
take care, peeps:grouphug:
Rez
hi, sis rez :giverose: did you happen to notice my follow-up post (#8) in which i sought to clarify my intentions? sorry for the confusion.
I, too, believe balance is the key. It is easy to have an obsession overtake someone and make Everything bad--or demonic-- and that isn't good. ANd I do believe witnesses are too often very fearful when they don't have to be But I also realize there have been experiences that have created great anxiety for some and not only Jehovah's Witnesses. I have a personal take on this as I have had experiences with the demons that were very traumatic at the time so I am a true believer and also know that some who haven't had any experience have a hard time believing such things exist. I seek the balance of knowing the reality as well as understanding how hard it is for those who just don't get it and remain sensitive to the feellings of those who have experienced what others have not. And without a doubt--there is all the protection we need within God so we have nothing to fear... :heartbeat:
hi, sis rez :giverose: did you happen to notice my follow-up post (#8) in which i sought to clarify my intentions? sorry for the confusion.
Sorry I missed that post iso. We, all three, must have been typing at the same time.
Just to reassure you, it wasn't your post that I was responding to. But rather a prevalent thought out there that all mention or teaching about demonic dangers is stemming from paranoid delusion or that WT teaching is simply fear-mongering. Which, BTW, pops up frequently on the board. I've never gotten that thought from you, bro. (au contraire) But I just wanted to clarify and add my two bits.:P
Also, our sister Micah is not herself a JW but is merely investigating the belief system. I'd hate for her to be stuck with a one-sided generalization. (is that redundant?)
love,
rez
Also, our sister Micah is not herself a JW but is merely investigating the belief system. I'd hate for her to be stuck with a one-sided generalization. (is that redundant?)
no. :huh: it is merely ... 'dundant.' :whistle:
As in "been there, dun dant"? :P