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To anyone interesested in looking up verses or individual words in Greek or Hebrew the following site may by useful.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/

It takes a little practice to get to know all the ins and outs of it but when you do it's a powerful tool.

Love,
coccus ilicis

coccus ilicis Wrote:
To anyone interesested in looking up verses or individual words in Greek or Hebrew the following site may by useful.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/

It takes a little practice to get to know all the ins and outs of it but when you do it's a powerful tool.

Love,
coccus ilicis


Hi coccus ilicis :hibye:

Thank you for the website, it will help many in our research for learning. Still, keep in mind though, that we do not have an English word that is discriptive or equal in meaning to a Hebrew/Greek word. To the best of my knowledge, which is limited, the closest word-for-word translation is the online: 2001 Translation.com
Just a thought. :giverose:

Shalom

BeginAgain Wrote:

coccus ilicis Wrote:
To anyone interesested in looking up verses or individual words in Greek or Hebrew the following site may by useful.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/

It takes a little practice to get to know all the ins and outs of it but when you do it's a powerful tool.

Love,
coccus ilicis


Hi coccus ilicis :hibye:

Thank you for the website, it will help many in our research for learning. Still, keep in mind though, that we do not have an English word that is discriptive or equal in meaning to a Hebrew/Greek word. To the best of my knowledge, which is limited, the closest word-for-word translation is the online: 2001 Translation.com
Just a thought. :giverose:

Shalom


Thanks for the link I will have a look, but generally prefer to research meanings myself.

The thing to keep in mind is that Greek and especially Hebrew are closer to their origins than English. English is an aggregate of a number of languages and its root words aren’t immediately apparent, whereas in older languages such as Hebrew one can usually break down a word to its constituent parts and find a meaning that way.

But you are quite right this tool is not the complete answer. Let’s try it out with the word Babel/Babylon.

Type into Search Interlinear Gen 11:9
The next window will be the KVJ of Gen 11:9 in English with the Hebrew below (if it hasn’t got the Hebrew click on interlinear view).

Now you click on Babel (written in blue)

The next window tells you Strong’s number #894/895, gives you the pronunciation, how many times and where it occurs, and how it is translated in the KVJ Bible. It also gives you a definition (from 1101 balal/confusion or mixed). However this definition is not necessarily the complete answer.

If we click on Genesis (blue, in the left hand column) we find the first use of the word is at Gen 10:10 …and the beginning of his (Nimrod’s) Kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad and Calneh… This should alert us that there is more to the meaning than confusion. Since Babel was the beginning of Nimrod’s kingdom and was obviously built some time before the languages were confused, it is hardly likely that he would have named his principal city Babel if it meant confusion.

You could now check the meaning Babel in Strong’s (#894/895) if you have access to it. There it gives us the same information as online. However if we break the word down to #892 babah which means hollow(ed) (as a gate) and el #410, a shortened form of elohim/God, we get gate to/of God. Still, it’s not definitive.

Brown-Driver-Briggs, if you have it, is the next step. There we find the entry on page 93, for #894, it reads… Babel, Babylon (in Assyrian written Bab-ilu, gate of God)…then goes on to also give its connection to confound or confuse as at Gen 11:6

Ah, that sounds more like it doesn’t it? Nimrod names his principal city Gate of God, its later meaning being a play on the Hebrew verb, ballal/confound, confuse.

If you don’t have access to Brown-Driver-Briggs you could always try an online search. My quick search brought up the link below, which gives yet another slant to the meaning by looking at the meaning of ballal #1101 and how it is used in other scriptures.
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Babel.html

This all might seem a bit laborious but at times one finds that clue in the meaning of a word that gives one a completely new way of looking at related scriptures.

Let's take Babel; since we now know that Nimrod most probably named his city Gate of God (not necessarily a foreign God) and we also know that God became angry not just because they built a city and with a tower, but because of what motivated the building program.

They built a city and named it Gateway of/to God and wanted to build a tower with its top in the heavens so as to make a celebrated name for ourselves for fear we may be scattered over all the earth. Indeed Nimrod would have lost control if they had been scattered and they would have achieved nothing ...Why now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unattainable for them... Gen 11:4-6

Does this not give new dimensions as to what Babylon the Great might represent?

Love,
Coccus ilicis
PS: check out the meaning of Seraphim

coccus ilicis Wrote:
They built a city and named it Gateway of/to God and wanted to build a tower with its top in the heavens so as to make a celebrated name for ourselves for fear we may be scattered over all the earth. Indeed Nimrod would have lost control if they had been scattered and they would have achieved nothing ...Why now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unattainable for them... Gen 11:4-6

Does this not give new dimensions as to what Babylon the Great might represent?

Love,
Coccus ilicis


coccus ilicis,

Interesting!

Sure does give new dimensions as to what Babylon the Great might represent.

Is there an organization with a tower on the earth today that claims to be a gateway to God who have made a celebrated name for themselves in a greater way than those ancient Babylonians?


Daniel 8:9
And out of one of them there came forth another horn, a small one, and it kept getting very much greater toward the south and toward the sunrising and toward the Decoration. 10 And it kept getting greater all the way to the army of the heavens, so that it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it went trampling them down. 11 And all the way to the Prince of the army it put on great airs, and from him the constant [feature] was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down.


If the Prince of the army is Jesus Christ then the sanctuary that is thrown down is the Christian Temple.


What celebrated name have they created for themselves?

Could it be this:


Revelation 13
And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. 18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.


In Christ

abe

ablebodiedman Wrote:

coccus ilicis Wrote:
They built a city and named it Gateway of/to God and wanted to build a tower with its top in the heavens so as to make a celebrated name for ourselves for fear we may be scattered over all the earth. Indeed Nimrod would have lost control if they had been scattered and they would have achieved nothing ...Why now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unattainable for them... Gen 11:4-6

Does this not give new dimensions as to what Babylon the Great might represent?

Love,
Coccus ilicis


coccus ilicis,

Interesting!

Sure does give new dimensions as to what Babylon the Great might represent.

Is there an organization with a tower on the earth today that claims to be a gateway to God who have made a celebrated name for themselves in a greater way than those ancient Babylonians?


Daniel 8:9
And out of one of them there came forth another horn, a small one, and it kept getting very much greater toward the south and toward the sunrising and toward the Decoration. 10 And it kept getting greater all the way to the army of the heavens, so that it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it went trampling them down. 11 And all the way to the Prince of the army it put on great airs, and from him the constant [feature] was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down.


If the Prince of the army is Jesus Christ then the sanctuary that is thrown down is the Christian Temple.


What celebrated name have they created for themselves?

Could it be this:


Revelation 13
And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. 18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.


In Christ

abe


Hi Abe,

As a first inclination I would say B the G represents organized religions of Christendom but on reflection I think Babel is representative of all organized religious bodies who have the notion that they are the one, they have a name, they are keepers of the gate to God. They may yet form a worldwide federation at instigation of the false prophet. Besides many birds roosting in her these organized bodies hold God’s people in thrall, that's why he says ...get out of her my people.

However, I’m a little reluctant to express myself on Revelation as I believe it will not be become clear until figurative John eats and digests the little scroll and the two witnesses are given authority to do their work, Rev 10&11

The reason I say this is because of what it says at Rev 1:3.
Reading from the Greek …Blessed is the one reading, and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy, and heeding the things in it being written for the appointed time is near… On the surface this verse is nonsensical but digging a little deeper we understand that when we really hear (hear in the same sense ‘as let him that has ears hear’ as at Matt 13 and in the letters to the 7 congregations… let him that has ears hear what the spirit says to the congregations Rev 2&3) when we hear the words of the prophecy in this way so that we fully understand and can heed it, we should we be happy because the appointed time is near. In other words it will not be understood until the appropriate time. At a guess, at the latest it would be before the 7th trumpet, just prior to the start of the 42 months of the work of the 2 witnesses begins or a little earlier. Anything we have to say before then could end up being just so much hot air.
Warm love,
c.i.

ablebodiedman Wrote:
Is there an organization with a tower on the earth today that claims to be a gateway to God who have made a celebrated name for themselves in a greater way than those ancient Babylonians?


There is not, and the Gateway of God meaning of “babel” sure puts a way bigger import on the role of the harlot Babylon the Great that is seen riding on top of the seven headed ten horned beast. The small horn - the king of fierce countenance - appears to be the same or aligned with the entity pictured as the “man of lawlessness” of Thessalonians and the “antichrist” of 1 John that seats itself in the very seat of God - even declaring itself God - per 2 Thessalonians.

Honestly, this description does not fit regular old “Christendom” for a couple reasons. One, none of the religions even the Catholic Church has ever claimed to replace God – no – they claim to represent God as vicars of Christ on earth. I regularly watch one of the Catholic cable channels EWTN and the Catholics are very reverent and respectful as worshippers of God. Despite all the pagan connectives in their worship system they plain do not claim to replace God. The harlot, the antichrist (assuming these are the same entity) is something entirely different and note – that if the seven headed ten horned beast has not yet risen out of the “sea” - as being a future event - then does the harlot seen riding on the back of the beast yet exist? I don’t think so, I think these entities are yet future and are connected to the yet future seventieth week period of seven years.

If this “small horn” entity begins its rule at the “half of the week” of the seventieth week of Daniel 9, then the harlot must represent the antichrist element as the religious faction of the NWO (my theory on this). Remember that there is worship involved with the beast image and anyone who doesn’t worship the beast image cannot buy or sell.

So if the harlot is riding the beast and the beast is the NWO, then why does the beast turn on the harlot if the harlot is the antichrist religious element of the NWO working together with it? And recall that the ten kings are seen as ruling for “one hour” with the beast, so evidently the ten kings have not materialized yet either.

I have my eyes peeled for clues to these questions – looking for ideas.



v r

So if the harlot is riding the beast and the beast is the NWO, then why does the beast turn on the harlot if the harlot is the antichrist religious element of the NWO working together with it? And recall that the ten kings are seen as ruling for “one hour” with the beast, so evidently the ten kings have not materialized yet either.

I have my eyes peeled for clues to these questions – looking for ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dear vr
This is just my two cents

What I am noticing is Religion, is coming into the limelight more and more each day, always a new issue, this is including , other religions beside Christianity. Issues are appearing that are involving Church & State.
The Harlot on the beast boasts that she is not a widow but has many daughters.. tracing this Harlot back to Constantine the Great, or even the Tower of Babel ,she certainly does have many daughters, what makes her so Great is she also embraces world wide religions other then Christianity.( my opinion at present ).
They will all be under the same umbrella.

I also feel as you that the Ten Kings have not shown up on the scene yet ,nor will they until the NWO goes into its short rule of 42 mos. The Ten Kings must picture the NWO or the UN.
The number Ten also stands for earthly completeness.

My personal thought on the beast turning on her is
this , John pictures the Harlot as riding the beast This sort of indicates to me that she loves taking the lead. and she wants control,

A prophet shows up before th middle of the week and this Prophet suggest a image be made of the beast, indicating religion is still taking taking the lead.( so this prophet probably shows up before the middle of the week.. This is another reason the beast turns on the harlot. Enough is enough.!!

I say this at the moment because its during the last half or the middle of the week that all sacrifices cease.

Of course the NWO, ( the UN ) doesn't realize , their kingdom is not a everlasting kingdom.

The above are just possibilities. Nothing concrete .I really dont know the timing of or the order of any of these events, there fore being its just a possibility at present I 'm not going to search for supporting scriptures.until I get my head on straight. I am sure there are some clues missing, so this is all open for change., It all has to make sense or come together scriptually. ( Speaking only for myself )

Susanna
:grouphug:

coccus ilicis Wrote:
… generally prefer to research meanings myself.



I’ve been researching the question of Aramaic over Greek NT primacy for several years and I now am certain that the NT was originally penned in Aramaic – not Greek - and then early on translated into Greek for the Roman populations of the Gentiles. George Lamsa’s early translation work and study editions are a great start, but I recently found an Aramaic manuscript based NT translation into English that should be extremely interesting to all the gearheads out here.

The work includes comparative texts from all the various extant Greek texts - with the Aramaic Crawford text - that shows the author’s lines of reasoning as to why the Aramaic had to have been the original. Exciting stuff – we’ll worth the hard copy NT purchase, and there is lots of free research stuff on the website.

http://www.aramaicnt.com



v r

Susanna Wrote:
A prophet shows up before th middle of the week and this Prophet suggest a image be made of the beast, indicating religion is still taking taking the lead.( so this prophet probably shows up before the middle of the week.. This is another reason the beast turns on the harlot. Enough is enough.!!

I say this at the moment because its during the last half or the middle of the week that all sacrifices cease.

Of course the NWO, ( the UN ) doesn't realize , their kingdom is not a everlasting kingdom.

The above are just possibilities. Nothing concrete .I really dont know the timing of or the order of any of these events, there fore being its just a possibility at present I 'm not going to search for supporting scriptures.until I get my head on straight. I am sure there are some clues missing, so this is all open for change., It all has to make sense or come together scriptually. ( Speaking only for myself )

Susanna



I am with you on the middle of the week thing in Daniel and the NWO and the false prophet - the connectives with Daniel and Revelation seem too obvious. What I’m working on recently is “why” the time periods are given in different terms. Why use “time, times, and half a time”, “1260 days”, and “42 months”?

Why not use the same term and call it 3 ½ years? I suspect the reason is that the different terms relate to two timeframes: The beast’s timeframe (42 months), the two witnesses timeframe (1260 days), and the “remaining ones of her seed” timeframe where “the woman” flees to the wilderness.

Ideas?



v r

Quote from vr
I am with you on the middle of the week thing in Daniel and the NWO and the false prophet - the connectives with Daniel and Revelation seem too obvious. What I’m working on recently is “why” the time periods are given in different terms. Why use “time, times, and half a time”, “1260 days”, and “42 months”?

Why not use the same term and call it 3 ½ years? I suspect the reason is that the different terms relate to two timeframes: The beast’s timeframe (42 months), the two witnesses timeframe (1260 days), and the “remaining ones of her seed” timeframe where “the woman” flees to the wilderness.

Ideas?



v r
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Responce:

The way I see it is The woman being carried to the wilderness ( to earth ) pictures the remaining of her seed ( remnant of the 144,000 ) who are all pictured by the symbolic Two Witnesses.
Take Notice in Rev the 13th chapter, shows that after the dragon gives his throne to the beast along with all the dragons power , that beast conquers the woman's seed.

Revelation 13:1-2(American Standard Version)
1 and he stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns, and seven heads, and on his horns ten diadems, and upon his heads names of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his throne, and great authority.

Revelation 13:7-9 (Amplified Bible)

He was further permitted to wage war on God's holy people (the saints) and to overcome them. And power was given him to extend his authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation,

And all the inhabitants of the earth will fall down in adoration and pay him homage, everyone whose name has not been recorded in the Book of Life of the Lamb that was slain [in sacrifice] ]from the foundation of the world.

>>>>>>>>

Revelation 12:17 (21st Century King James Version)
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and he went to make war with the remnant of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
>>>>>>>>
also take notice the two witnesses ,or the remnant of the woman's seed ,or saints or holy ones (all are one and the same,) but take notice they are killed after they finish their mission which was 3.5 years, or 42 months or 1260 days. The same length of time the counterfeit Kingdom is aloud to turn on the true Christians , which will also include Christendom.
There will be no room for Christ followers or the Remnant of the seed of Gods woman to be any part of the dragons Kingdom, or socialistic government.

This counterfiet kingdom also in the middle of the week caused sacrifices to cease. That would leave 3.5 years left, which will be a great tribulation for Christians.
The two witnesses or the holy ones or the ramnant of the 144,000 will have holy spirit protection, until there mission is finished .The same as Jesus.
>>>>>

Revelation 11:7 (New King James Version)

The Witnesses Killed

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them

Daniel 7:21 (King James Version)

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Daniel seen this counterfeit Kingdom or nwo way back then.

>>>>>>>>From the above , it seems that the two witnesses may start their 3.5 mission before the law goes out for all sacrifices to cease. The reason I say this is because ,after they are killed they still must lay in the open , world wide for all to see them.After the third day as Jesus they stand up with physical bodies

If the same pattern is set for them as was Jesus, they may stay on earth ,as Jesus did for forty days this was to prove that he had risen from the dead,Jesus visited his followers to assure them he had risen from the dead.:dontknow:

isn't there some extra days that we are to be happy about ? My mind cant go into that right now, but I'm sure youll agree vr,and coccus any scriptural additions to this picture would surely be appreciated.

Galatians 3:29 (21st Century King James Version)
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

>>>>The above promise to Abraham's seed is now traced back to

Genesis 3:15 ( King James Version) which reads

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel."

>>>>>>

While writing this my initial thoughts have changed from the 3.5 years, 42mos ,or 1260 all being the same timeframe to the possibility that they overlap each other, by days ,or weeks but certainly Not years .

I must say I just was skimming thru the posts for the day and seen RV had posted , so out of curiosity I looked in and low and behold there you were quoting me, so just thought I would add to the thread.

love susanna:grouphug:

veritas re Wrote:
[quote]What I’m working on recently is “why” the time periods are given in different terms. Why use “time, times, and half a time”, “1260 days”, and “42 months”?
Why not use the same term and call it 3 ½ years? I suspect the reason is that the different terms relate to two timeframes: The beast’s timeframe (42 months), the two witnesses timeframe (1260 days), and the “remaining ones of her seed” timeframe where “the woman” flees to the wilderness.
Ideas?

Hi v.r.
One reason why he expressed the same period in two ways might be to make quite sure we know the exact time period involved as calendar disputes were still abroad well into C.E.
See link: http://www.bethelcog.org/church/worldwid...w-calender .

If you scroll down to the heading 'Did God Create the Solar System?' you will find some interesting information regarding possible reasons for the change from a 360 day year to 365 day year. I have read Velikovsky on this; his approach is well balanced and backed by extensive research.

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to post excel sheets or Word tables here? If so, how is it done.

Love,
c.i.

I just wanted to add that I very much enjoy using
http://www.blueletterbible.com

esp. to use the Greek Concordance/lexicon
I just wanted to add that I very much enjoy using
http://www.blueletterbible.com

esp. to use the Greek Concordance/lexicon

coccus ilicis Wrote:
[quote=veritas re]

Quote:
What I’m working on recently is “why” the time periods are given in different terms. Why use “time, times, and half a time”, “1260 days”, and “42 months”?
Why not use the same term and call it 3 ½ years? I suspect the reason is that the different terms relate to two timeframes: The beast’s timeframe (42 months), the two witnesses timeframe (1260 days), and the “remaining ones of her seed” timeframe where “the woman” flees to the wilderness.
Ideas?

Hi v.r.
One reason why he expressed the same period in two ways might be to make quite sure we know the exact time period involved as calendar disputes were still abroad well into C.E.
See link: http://www.bethelcog.org/church/worldwid...w-calender .

If you scroll down to the heading 'Did God Create the Solar System?' you will find some interesting information regarding possible reasons for the change from a 360 day year to 365 day year. I have read Velikovsky on this; his approach is well balanced and backed by extensive research.

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to post excel sheets or Word tables here? If so, how is it done.

Love,
c.i.


of course, the jewish year of 360 days had a built in mechanism for adjusting to the approximately 365 1/4 day solar year. that was the extra (thirteenth) month of ve-adar; an extra month also of thirty days which was added seven times every nineteen years to keep the lunar calendar from deviating too far from the solar calendar at any point in time.

malkah, if i have any of that wrong, please correct for us, ok? :giverose:

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