Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

might I add these scriptual words

A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth.

A good name is more desirable than great riches; to be esteemed is better than silver or gold.


lotsa people name their children lets say Jesus.

But we know whom the true Jesus the savior is I hope.
It is not his "actual" name nor his personal appearance that makes him who he is or GOOD for that matter.

taken from a web page about how many times he was not recognized.

"He appeared to Mary and she thought He was a gardener
He appeared, walked and talked with the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, and they did not realize it was Him
He yelled to the disciples in the boat fishing and they did not recognize Him"

So to the point about making GOD name known. I doubt it was about the word used to call to him. As has already been pointed to.

GOD has always been about seeing what we do not see with our eye's.
Hence "he will prove to be what he will prove to be"
getting to know his personal traits was and still is most important.
It is how we can become like him. We cannot become like him by calling out to the air we cannot be identified by a label that we call ourselves.

IF it were so no need of seperating the wheat from the weeds.
WE make a NAME for ourselves thru our deeds not because we are born.
GOD made a NAME for himself.
which can be decribed by many words.
Loyal, Faithfull, mercifull, powerfull as he has prvoed to be all of them and many more.

Good point td!
If a person calls himself a Jehovah's Witness, does that make him a witness for Jehovah!?!

:seehearspeak: SwordofJah, SlaveofChrist, ablebodiedman :baby::baby::baby: Aren't they all from the same cookie cutter? :huh:

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=6293

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

BeginAgain,

I too am not much of an expert in languages.

Instead I rely greatly on the expertise of very wise men who do the translations into English for me.

I trust that when they translate a word in one language into the word "name" in the English language then it is the very best word to use.

If the word really meant character in the English language then the wise translator would use the word "character" in the English language.

They did not, instead they used the English word "name".

If you think the word "name" should be translated into something that it really means then please convince the hundreds of very wise men who translated the bible into English to change it.

On the other hand if you really do trust and have faith in God you might realize that he would have been very capable at ensuring the translation was done accurately for the millions and millions of bibles printed in the English language.


If you really don't have that much faith in God then go ahead. Convolute the scriptures to mean whatever you want and spend the rest of your spiritual life arguing over words.


In Christ

abe

BeginAgain,

The video narrator goes through a very lengthy explanation of how God's name should be pronounced and what it means.

If you listen carefully while he is giving the explanation he pronounces the tetragrammation as "Yahweh" even though he gives several other options.

The narrator gives away his own personal choice in pronunciation through his own narration.


Quote: "both of these names are conveying the idea that "Yahweh" is the existing one."


The narrator spends a lot of time explaining that God's actual name has a meaning.

That is not something unusual even in the English language.

Good chance that your real name means something too!

Try this:

http://www.behindthename.com/



In Christ

abe

how about a little blast from the past regarding ... "god's spirit-directed organization"? :huh:

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=1314

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

:hibye: Hi Isomam,

This was my first time to read this thread and I thought it was brilliant! Thank you for bringing it back for those of us who missed it and for those who need to read it again. :clap:

Shalom

Hello my brother,

I will have to get back to you a little later with my reply. I have a stack of chores and errands today. And, I want to have the time I need to view the videos in your signature and visit the website you make reference to.

Shalom

Hi Abe,
After having checked out your videos and reading portions of your book, it's very clear that you need to elevate this”organization” to a level of importance, in order for you to make some sense of your DF(ing). Reminds me a little of the old watchman's rant against this organization as well. I'm sincerely sorry for their mistreatment to you. Many others like you have written blogs, books and manuscripts to vent off some of their rage. It is so hard to un-program the brain from their polluted doctrines, believe me, I know because I'm still battling it at times.
Maybe what might be good for you would be to consider another translation of the Bible besides the NT, perhaps an older version of the KJ or better yet the New Jerusalem Bible. Just a suggestion. Here's a brief cap on the constant theme through this thread.

Willa said:
"Jehovah" is not "God's actual name", Abe. It's one of many personal names that've been applied to Him - but His Name is much more than a phonetic spelling, it's His character which Jesus bore on himself as His Son. Christ Jesus is the one through whom we are gathered as God's children - not through any organization. So it doesn't matter what the wtbts says, they don't have the God-given authority to declare anyone included or rejected as "God's people". God's mercy is entirely through faith in His Son - not through any orgaization. This much, at least, I've learned from the Bible, not from the WT men who wish to glorify themselves as 'something' in God's plan.

Mavos said:
The first century Christians were never identified by the Divine Name, as the WT asserts, but they were identified with the name of Jesus. (Hence why they were called CHRISTians.)

E-magine said:
The name "Jehovah" does not identify the true church. Mavos is correct! The true Father God has not revealed an actual personal name for himself to us, only a description, "I am". There is only one personal name that has been given to humankind by which we may be saved, namely "Jesus" (in English) This name identifies the true church

Gogh said:
Re: "They still don't use God's name even today."

Are you putting importance on using the name (in english), Jehovah?

It seems others, (besides Jehovah's Witnesses), do as well.

Totaldismay said:
GOD has always been about seeing what we do not see with our eye's.
Hence "he will prove to be what he will prove to be"
getting to know his personal traits was and still is most important.
It is how we can become like him. We cannot become like him by calling out to the air we cannot be identified by a label that we call ourselves.

And so much more . . .from true Christians trying to help adjust your vision. It's out of love and not from an agenda dear one. Quit wasting your energy trying to elevate this whore. IMHO, all organized religions are dirty and vile. Satan is using your heartache to his advantage. Break FREE!

That is your opinion.

That would give "Yahowah" and not "Jehovah", right?
The divine name is not a matter of pronunciation, I hear several saying here, BUT when it comes to the form "Jehovah": that is suddenly a very bad thing BECAUSE it would not be 100 % the correct pronunciation... After all we're speaking English, French, Italian, Spanish nowadays, not ancient Hebrew.

Because NT writers cited (and not like we cut-and-paste text), paraphrased, or applied an OT scripture in the specific context and purpose of their discours, does not mean they altered existing OT text scrolls. So this forms no precedent for contemporary bible translators, who surely are NOT inspired by Holy Spirit, to alter OT texts.
Maybe it would have been rather problematic or awkward to transliterate the divine name in the Greek alphabet and tongue? And thus 'LORD' was the next best substitute? Moreover many among the Christians in those days would have been very familiar with the original Hebrew Scriptures containing the tetragram and readily understood 'LORD' in those citations stood for YHWH. However this is no longer the case if you 'retroactively' or 'retrogradily' replace YHWH with 'Lord' everywhere in the bible. A substitute is not the same as an equivalent!
"[the] Lord God" is not a very fortunate construction (there are many lords and gods); compare on the other hand "Jehovah God" and notice the similarity in form with "Jesus Christ", both uniquely identifying expressions.
"And Jehovah must become king over all the earth. In that day Jehovah will prove to be one, and his name one [or: the only one]." (Zechariah 14:9)

I don't think the WT asserts such a thing. Many of the earliest Christians were Jews anyway, they already called on the name of YHWH, they were in fact already 'Yahwists' so to speak.
Today some groups identify themselves or as known as Lutherans or Mennonites for example, named after their human founders, and they profess to be Christians as well. Those persons are long dead now, while as Habakkuk 1:12 says: "Are You not from eternity, Yahweh my God? My Holy One, You will not die."

Relevance?
__________
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His hands? Who has bound up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is the name of His Son- if you know? Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. -- Proverbs 30:4-5
Praise ye Jehovah. Praise, O ye servants of Jehovah, Praise the name of Jehovah. Blessed be the name of Jehovah From this time forth and for evermore. From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same Jehovah's name is to be praised. -- Psalm 113:1-3

abe, Im sure you are familiar with the Greek word "parousia", which means literally "presence"
However most translators know the real meaning in Greek is "coming".
So which is correct,
literal translation, or translating by meaning?
You can't trust those translators!

Does God Have An Organization On Earth Today?

I have read the Bible .

I have never found the word “organization”, nor the fact that God would ever had or has an organization on earth .
The humans want to understand through the word “organization” God’s theocratic arrangement. BUT what really would fit with this word (organization), it is found only in Heavens !

God’s Organization (theocratic arrangement) is in Heaven and it is Heavenly.

And when Jesus Christ came on earth , he did not call it “God’s organization” but God’s KINGDOM !
And he taught us that Father’s will is that this Kingdom to come on earth.
And he taught us to pray for that.
And because Father commanded to Jesus followers to “obey the Son”, they are praying until today “Let Your Kingdom come…”

That is the most powerful proof that “God’s Organization” is not on earth today, because we all admit that this Kingdom is not here yet !

Well, but then , what does God has on earth ?
He says He has a people !
But did he have always “a people” on earth ?
NO ! because the history of His chosen people did begun with God’s “pulling his people out of Egypt”.
So, before of that event God had individuals and "family" .
When the Israelites entered in Egypt they were a “family”(of seventy souls)

And what God always has on earth are “human souls” because He is the OWNER of them
4.“Behold, all souls are Mine;
the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine
The soul who sins will die.
Ezekiel 18.

What is God doing “always” is that:
2 The LORD looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
Psalm 14.

So, we can say that “always” God has been having on earth individuals who “seek after Him”, to know (understand) Him – but not organization!

Now , Jesus formed the “Christian community”, something within God’s Kingdom has to come .
And how does He did it ?
To the "two greatest commandments" (to love God…and the neighbor) Jesus has added another one through which He fixed the "center" of the "Christian community".

As a planet is formed by firstly fixing its “center/point of gravity” so did Jesus:
He gave “a new commandment” to His followers:
34.“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35.“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13

Through these words Jesus has fixed the “center of gravity” for the Christian community !
There was never need for a human organization to keep His faithful ones united !
That commandment works (like a gravitational force) in those who really have faith in Jesus and it produces unity (not uniformity).
Within this community (worldwide) the Heavenly Kingdom of God will “come on earth” in short time/at God’s established time.

==========

Regarding the much used phrase:“God doesn’t deal with individuals, only with his organization” there is an inspired scripture proving how God deals with men:

Job 34
29. When He keeps quiet, who then can condemn?
And when He hides His face, who then can behold Him,
That is, in regard to both nation and man?–
NASB

So, Jehovah deals with “both nation and man”/ individuals and group of individuals/people/nation (his people).

while He may be at peace with a certain His servant , at the same time He may be "angered" over His nation , as a "whole"

while He may be at peace with His "people" , He may manifest His anger over a certain "individual" who proves to be "law transgressor"

I hope it is understandable.

with love,
in Christ
rus v.