Christ’s presence during the conclusion of the system of things??
Matt 28:20
Another verse that is very familiar and needs closer scrutiny is Matt 28:20, in the NW bible it reads in part as follows.
…and, look I am with you until (hehos/Strong’s #2193) the conclusion of the system of things…
Again we have read and recited this verse so many times without considering what it is really saying. Notice it says until the conclusion of … In Greek as in English until/hehos, is a preposition of time and of place, until or as far as.
Now either the conclusion of the system of things means the same as the end/telos or Christ is not present with his disciples during the conclusion of the system of things.
Another bit of plastering whitewash is crumbling away Ezek 13:8-12
coccus ilicis
Hello there CI! :hibye:
Well, it is late and HOT and muggy here ...:star::desert: but I thought I would put something up before I toddle off to bed ... but probably not to sleep ... :sleepy: :shocked:
I guess I like how other translations render this verse and the meaning that clearly comes across ... that our Lord has never and never ever will desert us through the reign of the wicked one ... :devil:
Not instead of UNTIL the word is ALWAYS ... :read::giverose:
New International Version (©1984)
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
International Standard Version (©2008)
teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age."
Bible in Basic English
Teaching them to keep all the rules which I have given you: and see, I am ever with you, even to the end of the world.
Darby Bible Translation
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have enjoined you. And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age.
The word for 'always' is ...
G3956 πᾶς
pas pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
Yes, our Lord is with us to help us to cope and endure faithfully until the end of the wicked system of things until he begins a to be with us in a new and special way ... as a reigning king bringing the earth back to the way our Father intended it to be! :cheer::cheer:
Just some quick thoughts ... not sure if my brain is working on all cylinders in ths heat but I thought I would give it a go ... :blush:
Christianl love, BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
Christ’s presence during the conclusion of the system of things??
Matt 28:20
Another verse that is very familiar and needs closer scrutiny is Matt 28:20, in the NW bible it reads in part as follows.
…and, look I am with you until (hehos/Strong’s #2193) the conclusion of the system of things…
Again we have read and recited this verse so many times without considering what it is really saying. Notice it says until the conclusion of … in Greek as in English until/hehos, is preposition of time and place, until or as far as.
Now either the conclusion of the system of things means the same as the end/telos or Christ is not present with his disciples during the conclusion of the system of things.
Another bit of plastering whitewash is crumbling away Ezek 13:8-12
coccus ilicis
coccus,
At the conclusion of the system of things Jesus Christ said he would gather together the chosen ones.
When I read that scripture my own focus is on the baptismal requisites and the teaching disciples.
This commandment was given after Christ's death.
Jesus Christs death was required in order to provide the blood which inaugurated the new covenant.
Hebrew 10
Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us approach with true hearts in the full assurance of faith, having had our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water. 23 Let us hold fast the public declaration of our hope without wavering, for he is faithful that promised.
If Jesus Christ had to die for this then woe to the people who presumptuously add their own names to the public declaration and make themselves a requisite part of the contract with which a person can become a party to the new covenant.
2 Thessalonians 2
"so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god"
Will Jesus Christ be "with them" if they mess around with his baptism?
Luke 12:49
I came to start a fire on the earth, and what more is there for me to wish if it has already been lighted? 50 Indeed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am being distressed until it is finished!
He said; "until it is finished"
I think the question to ask is whether the baptism will still be required after the conclusion of this system of things?
What happens to baptism after the chosen ones have all been gathered?
In Christ
abe
ablebodiedman
coccus ilicis
Christ’s presence during the conclusion of the system of things??
Matt 28:20
Another verse that is very familiar and needs closer scrutiny is Matt 28:20, in the NW bible it reads in part as follows.
…and, look I am with you until (hehos/Strong’s #2193) the conclusion of the system of things…
Again we have read and recited this verse so many times without considering what it is really saying. Notice it says until the conclusion of … In Greek as in English until/hehos, is a preposition of time and place, until or as far as.
Now either the conclusion of the system of things means the same as the end/telos or Christ is not present with his disciples during the conclusion of the system of things.
At the conclusion of the system of things Jesus Christ said he would gather together the chosen ones.
When I read that scripture my own focus is on the baptismal requisites and the teaching disciples.
This commandment was given after Christ's death.
Jesus Christs death was required in order to provide the blood which inaugurated the new covenant.
Hebrew 10
Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us approach with true hearts in the full assurance of faith, having had our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water. 23 Let us hold fast the public declaration of our hope without wavering, for he is faithful that promised.
If Jesus Christ had to die for this then woe to the people who presumptuously add their own names to the public declaration and make themselves a requisite part of the contract with which a person can become a party to the new covenant.
2 Thessalonians 2
"so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god"
Will Jesus Christ be "with them" if they mess around with his baptism?
Luke 12:49
I came to start a fire on the earth, and what more is there for me to wish if it has already been lighted? 50 Indeed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am being distressed until it is finished!
He said; "until it is finished"
I think the question to ask is whether the baptism will still be required after the conclusion of this system of things?
What happens to baptism after the chosen ones have all been gathered?
Hi Abe,
Is it not interesting how different people have a different take on the verses.
My main focus and reason for posting this thread is to highlight that the WTBTS cannnot have a period called the conclusion of system of things and claim Jesus is with them and leading them during this perioed because it clearly statesuntil, or ujp to that time.
The translations you quote are interesting but they have added to his words and I think there is always a danger in doing that.
With regard to batism, it is an interesting point you make. and I would ask were all of Jesus' disciples, including the twelve babtized. I know the WTBTS teaches that they had no need because they came out from the Jeswish system of worship, but really we only have their word fo it. With regard to the end and will baptism still be neccessary, I add what about the great crowd out of all nations will they also all have to be babtized, and if so by whom?
Well, since Jesus had nothing to say on the matter I don't think we need worry; he's got it all under control and it will no doubt soon become clear. I wouldn't be surprised if all this business with covenants and baptisms has to do with the old world and not the new.
love,
Coccus Ilicis
At the conclusion of the system of things Jesus Christ said he would gather together the chosen ones.
When I read that scripture my own focus is on the baptismal requisites and the teaching disciples.
This commandment was given after Christ's death.
Jesus Christs death was required in order to provide the blood which inaugurated the new covenant.
Hebrew 10
Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us approach with true hearts in the full assurance of faith, having had our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water. 23 Let us hold fast the public declaration of our hope without wavering, for he is faithful that promised.
If Jesus Christ had to die for this then woe to the people who presumptuously add their own names to the public declaration and make themselves a requisite part of the contract with which a person can become a party to the new covenant.
2 Thessalonians 2
"so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god"
Will Jesus Christ be "with them" if they mess around with his baptism?
Luke 12:49
I came to start a fire on the earth, and what more is there for me to wish if it has already been lighted? 50 Indeed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am being distressed until it is finished!
He said; "until it is finished"
I think the question to ask is whether the baptism will still be required after the conclusion of this system of things?
What happens to baptism after the chosen ones have all been gathered?
In Christ
abe
Hi Abe,
I just read my reply to the above and couldn't make head nor tail of it. I then realised I was referring to bruisedreed's scripture quotes when I said that 'the quotes added to the orginal wording and there was danger in that'. Sorry but that had nothing to do with your post.
coccus ilicis