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Full Version: Does the Bible Promise Everlasting Life?
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The answer to this question is yes and no, for the words everlasting life aren’t really found in the original Hebrew or Greek texts. Take for example, the familiar words of John 3:16, ‘God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed, but have everlasting life.’ However, if you examine the Greek words that are translated everlasting life here, you’ll find that they are zoen aionion, or life ages.

Then if you look at the words that are found at John 17:3 (‘This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ’ – NW), you’ll find that the words Jesus spoke (in Greek) were aionios zoe, or, age (singular) life. So, although the words zoe aionion (life ages) could imply everlasting life, the singular use of aionos at John 17:3 cannot mean everlasting life, because Jesus wasn’t speaking of ages of life, but of life in the age. So, what was he talking about?

The Words in Greek

First, let’s discuss the meaning of the Greek words aionion or aionios. If you look up the words in an Interlinear Bible, you’ll find that the words are rendered as ζώήν άίωνίον (John 3:16) and άίώυιος ζώή (John 17:3). Take the time to learn how the Greek letters are pronounced (the pronunciations are usually found near the inside front cover), because this is important for serious Bible students.

Now turn to Matthew 24:3, and you’ll find that Jesus’ Apostles came to him and asked (in Greek), ‘κάί (and) τί (what) το (the) σημειον (sign) σης (your) πάρουσιάς (nearness) κάι (and) συντέλειάς (end) του (of the) άιώνος (age)?’

So, if aionos means forever or everlasting, how could some translate it as world or system of things? Obviously, the word means age or ages, and it’s where we get the English word eon from.

The Words in Hebrew

Now, if you’re familiar with scriptures like Ecclesiastes 1:4, which read, ‘A generation cometh and a generation goeth, but the earth abideth forever,’ you’ll find that the NWT translators have changed the word forever to read to time indefinite. The reason for this is that the Hebrew word לעולם doesn’t mean forever, it means a period of time. And in the Greek Septuagint it is translated as aionion. So, to the Jews who translated the Greek Septuagint in the Third Century B.C.E., לעולם meant the same as άιώνιον, and that is an unknown period of time.

When Aionion Probably Means Forever

However, there are probably instances when aionion does imply forever. Take for example, the scripture found at 1 Peter 4:11, which reads, ‘The glory and the might are his (God’s) forever and ever.’ There the Greek words are aionas ton aionon, or ages of/the ages. And we’ll assume that God’s glory lasts forever. So, there are instances where aionion (when doubled) can mean forever.

Is Everlasting Life on Earth Possible?

We know that anything is possible with God, so yes, it is possible… but not likely. For as science can prove that everything ends, the Bible says it too. Notice the prophecy at Hebrews 1:10-12. It says (NW), ‘And: you at the beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are the works of your hands. They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out.’

Now, one of the logical arguments that scientists have used to prove that the universe had a beginning, is that temperatures would be the same throughout the universe if it had always been, and there could be no energy, since the energy sources would be expired. So, this same argument is true of the future… the earth and the universe can’t always be. It will, as the scripture says, ‘grow old,’ which will require God to ‘wrap it up’ and change or renew it.

Then, what will happen to the faithful? The Bible simply doesn’t tell us, but we can be confident that God will never destroy those He loves.

Is Planet Earth ‘The Earth?’

Another interesting Greek word is ges, which is translated variously as earth, ground, and land. The choice of which of these English words is used to translate it is strictly up to the translator. For there are instances where the Bible is obviously talking about the globe, but in others it’s talking about a particular land, or about the ground itself (for ges is differentiated from thalassa, which means sea). So, whenever you find the words earth, ground, and land used in the Bible, recognize that they all come from the same Greek word, ges.

Why does this one word mean so many things? Well, it came from ancient non-scientific peoples, and it simply refers to what is below us. And the same thing is true of the Greek word ourano, it is translated as both sky and heaven, and it refers to everything above us. So, what Genesis 1:1 really said was, ‘In the beginning God made what is below us and what is above us.’ So, the earth in the Bible doesn’t really mean this planet, but the ground we live on, wherever that may be in some future time.

Does the Bible Ever Speak of Everlasting or Forever?

The Bible does have a word that means forever, because the related Greek word aidios, which is used at Jude 6 for example, where it speaks of the bondage of God’s Messengers who forsook their place in heaven, does mean eternal. So, Bible writers knew the word, but chose not to use it when speaking of the hope of humans.

But on the other hand, Paul did write at 1 Corinthians 15:53, 54, ‘Then that which is corruptible will put on incorruptibility, and that which is dying will put on immortality. But, when that which is dying puts on immortality, then the words that were written are fulfilled, Death is swallowed in victory.’

The Greek word that is translated as immortality there is athenasian, which means undying (not ‘incapable of death,’ as some have claimed), and Paul was simply saying that those who are deteriorating with age (corruptible) will put on an incorruptible condition, and the dying (mortal) will put on undying.

So, it appears as though some will no longer have to grow old and die. Who will this be? Well, most teach that Paul was speaking of those with the heavenly hope here. However, our research indicates that he was actually speaking of all the faithful, regardless of whether their destiny is earthly or heavenly.

So, perhaps the Bible does speak of everlasting life, but not in those words.

But What Does the Singular Word ‘Age’ Mean?

Getting back to the word aionos (age, singular) that is used at John 17:3 and in dozens of other places in the Bible, what was Jesus talking about when he said the faithful will receive life in the age? Well, this is one instance where translating the singular form aionos as forever badly distorts the meaning of Jesus’ words. Notice, for example, his promise at John 11:26, where he said, ‘Everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?’

Also, notice what Jesus said as recorded at John 5:24, ‘I tell you the truth: The one who hears what I say and believes in the One that sent me, will have life in this age. He won’t have to be judged, for he has crossed over from death to life.’

Notice that Jesus wasn’t talking about some time thousands of years in the future; he was talking about something that could happen to his listeners then and there! It wasn’t that they wouldn’t physically die, for he had just said, ‘Everyone that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life.’ However, what he was promising them was the gift of LIFE, as opposed to being counted among ‘the Dead.’

So, when Jesus spoke his prayer that’s found in John the Seventeenth Chapter, and he said, ‘This means age life (aionios zoe), their taking in knowledge of you…’ he was saying that his faithful followers would be counted among the ‘living’ during their age or lifetime, and they would thus be worthy of a resurrection to ‘life,’ not a resurrection of ‘judgment.’ So, aionos doesn’t tell us how long they will live, but when they receive the gift of life. The word life (gr. zoe) in the Bible implies undying, so no other word is required to tell us what this means for the faithful.

However, as difficult as the concept of life in the age or ages may be to us, recognize that Jesus’ ancient listeners seemed to know exactly what he was saying, for none of them are recording as saying ‘Huh?’ And they would be just as surprised to learn that we think he was talking about everlasting life.

When ‘Life’ Comes to the Faithful

But, at what point does God impart (eternal or everlasting) life to the faithful? We get an insight into God's promise concerning this in Jesus’ words found at Matthew 25:31-46, where he was talking about the separating of the sheep and the goats.

It is recorded at Matthew 25:31-33 that he said: ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory with the messengers (Armageddon?), he will sit down on his glorious throne and all the nations will be led in front of him. Then he will separate people just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right, but the goats on his left.’

And thereafter, notice the outcome of those who are judged as either goats or sheep (Matthew 25:46): ‘Then they (the goats) will leave to be cut off in that age, but the righteous ones [will receive] life in the age.’

So, from Jesus’ own words it appears as though people will be judged upon Jesus’ arrival, and they will either be granted life or death at that time… not sometime during the remaining thousand years of Jesus’ reign.

*FOOTNOTE
Different word forms and their types:
Aiōni – noun, masculine, singular, dative
Aiōna – noun, masculine, singular, accusative
Aiōnŏs – noun, masculine, singular, genitive
Aiōnas – noun, masculine, plural, accusative
Aiōnōn – noun, masculine, plural, genitive
Aiōsin – noun, masculine, plural, dative
Aiōniŏn – adjective, neuter, singular, nominative
Aiōnian – adjective, feminine, singular, accusative
Aiōniŏs – adjective, feminine, singular, nominative
Aiōniŏu – adjective, neuter, singular, genitive
Aiōniŏus – adjective, masculine, plural, dative
Aiōniōn – adjective, masculine, plural, genitive
Aiōniŏus – adjective, feminine, plural, accusative
Aiōnia – adjective, neuter, plural, nominative.

Hi, JWHVACR! :hibye: First of all, "Welcome!" :) Second of all, what a fabulous post. You express your thoughts so clearly and cogently. Your thoughts here, -- almost in their entirety, -- reflect my own. The one tiny area where we may have a slight difference of conclusion is in conjunction with what Jesus' words at Matthew 25:46 may actually mean. We certainly agree that most of these matters are grossly misinterpreted and misunderstood by "Religions," in general. Since the WTB&TS's recommended Daily Scriptural Text yesterday was from Matthew, chapter 25, here are some of the comments I offered.
__________

33 "The Son of Man will put people who are like the sheep at his right side. He will put people who are like the goats at his left side."--Matthew 25:33, Worldwide English (New Testament).

My comment: What really is the situation for "people who are like goats," who "the Son of man will put ... at his left side"? Let's see if we can manage to set aside all of our religious conditioning and examine this question objectively.

The Online Scripture Analyzer transliterates the literal Greek-to-English of Matthew 25:46 as follows:
                                                                             
                                                               kolasin      aiwnion
                                                               kolasis      aiOnios
AND SHALL-BE-FROM-COMING these INTO CHASTENing eonian
       shall-be-coming-away

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInter.../mat25.pdf

The Emphatic Diaglott reads similarly, as follows:

And shall go away these into a cutting off agelasting.

So, ... what have we here? First of all, we are talking about "ages." Actually, Jesus was talking about ages. Satan has been granted an "age" (Greek, ai'on; also transliterated directly into English as our word "eon") in which YHWH has permitted him (Satan) to exercise wide latitude in attempting to prove his fraudulent, blasphemous charges against the Almighty, Loving, Sovereign over all. (In 2 Corinthians 4:4, the expression "god of this system of things," reads, literally, "god of this age." Greek, ai'on.)

Christ Jesus, too, is Scripturally foretold to execise dominion over the earth and its inhabitants for an "age." The age of Christ Jesus will last for one thousand years; and, will be the time of restoring mankind and this earth to perfect standards. During this Millennial "Age," Christ Jesus will finish 'breaking up all the works of the Devil.' (1 John 3:8-b.) Now, although the "age" granted to Satan was six times as long as Christ's Millennium, the "age" of Jesus Christ will be sufficient for the full accomplishment of YHWH's Grand Purpose for this earth and mankind.

6,000 years of the Devil screwing things up.
1,000 years for Christ to Restore all things and persons.

So, getting back to our theme Scriptural text for today, the question becomes:

Does Jesus separating people amount to (equate to) any sort of judgment, at that particular time?

Isn't it true that "Religion" has thoroughly conditioned us to equate this "separating" with "judging"? And, until 1995, Jehovah's Witnesses were indoctrinated to think that they were doing the "separating/judging" by their door-to-door activity. How much of that is true? Well, none, actually.

31 "When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left."--Matthew 25:31-33, New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

Let me ask you a question. When a shepherd "separates" his sheep from his goats, does that lead you to conclude that he now plans to annihilate the goats? Or, does it lead reasonable persons to conclude that apparently the shepherd has determined that the sheep need one type of care and attention, while the goats may need a different type of care and attention?

Do you remember (?) Jesus asking the question:

8 ... "When the Son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?"--Luke 18:8-b, ibid.

Jesus left it as an unanswered, rhethorical question. However, the implied answer would seem to be, "Yes." With the stipulation later added by the apostle Paul:

2 ... Faith is not a possession of all people.--2 Thessalonians 3:2-b, ibid.

So, while Jesus' yoke is the kindliest thing on earth, and while Jesus' load is lighter than air (Matthew 11:28-30), it is the finding and maintaining of those things which Satan's age makes so perilously difficult. And, yet, some are able, with strength from YHWH and Christ, to do exactly that. They manage, even now, to become sheeplike in developing desirable, godly traits reflected in their thought, speech, and behavior. Jesus will say, ... "OK, you step over here, on my right." Others, who have been defeated by Satan's system of things, will need the Resuscitation awaiting them during the coming Millennium to even be able to learn godly ways; and, then, hopefully, adopt them. Oh, yes, it is quite possible, -- even likely, -- that the "people who are like the goats" may be required to lie down and sleep in She'ol for a time. But, really, won't that serve them even better, in terms of having a "fresh start," when this Satanic "age" is no more?

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...hp?tid=636
__________

Those were my comments yesterday morning. I would only add to point out the fact that the Greek word kolasin (or, kolasis), commonly translated "destruction," or something similar, has the primary meaning of CHASTENing. The footnote on Matthew 25:46 in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (with References) says concerning the main-text word "cutting-off," ... Literally, "lopping off; pruning." The footnote does call attention to the fact that the Greek word employed here is, indeed, kolasin; and links this verse and this Greek word with 1 John 4:18 and the footnote there, where the main text of the NWT says, "restraint." The footnote there says, ... Or, "checking; correction; punishment."

So, my conclusion, which differs from yours, is that Jesus separates people, -- as being either sheeplike or goatlike AT THAT TIME, -- for them to be dealt with, according to their needs; with final "judging" relegated to a point in the future after they have been spiritually restored, resuscitated, rejuvenated, and enabled to learn to know God as He wishes them to know Him.  If they have continued "goat-like" up until the coming, arrival and presence of the Son of Man, it stands to reason that they would be very much in need of CHASTENing; correction; checking. And, since the essential meaning of "punishment" is discipline by which one may be instructed, it stand to reason (imo) that this term, too, would very appropriately fit the situation of those in that category, as assessed by Jesus at his arrival. Then, at a future time, -- beyond Jesus' return, -- during or at the end of the Millennium, should they demonstrate themselves to be incorrigible, hardened resisters of YHWH's Righteous Sovereignty, they would be adversely "judged" by The Judge, Christ Jesus, and be removed from society.

I think it is wonderful that we can have these discussions. And, of course, we all know that, in the end, it doesn't matter too much what we think will be done. God and Christ will do the right things, regardless of human opinion.

I also think you will find that there are quite a few serious "scholars" of the Hebrew and Greek languages here among us. (I am not one of them.) But, I would imagine you can look forward to many stimulating interchanges of encouragement.

your friend and brother, ... isomam

First :thumbsup: Hi great job guy's.

We need to have more people with some grease cuting solvents.


Stellar!!! trully
Hmmmm ... :blush::thinking: this discussion is so very interesting ...

Hello there JWHVACR ... I was wondering which reference(s) you get your meaning for the Greek and Hebrew words ...:giverose: Some of them are very different from my Strong's and Vine's ...?

I wasn't sure where to put some questions that have always puzzled me ... and which I haven't voiced ... but after reading here "MAYBE" this is as good a place as ever ...:giverose::dontknow:

Your 'separating' thoughts spurned on my hesitatingly putting up these questions ... for which there probably isn't really any answer as it is in the future ... but I thought I'd put them up anyway ...?

These questions are not being asked to cause 'trouble' :redface:;)... but rather to see if anyone may have a Scriptural answer ...? :read:

Boy is it hard trying to put these feelings into words ...:confused:

First off ... for SO LONG I have always thought of the 1000 year reign of peace of Christ Jesus as us bringing us and the earth back to perfection and teaching the resurrected ones the ways of Jehovah and if they don't listen but reject our God or cause trouble they will be instantly destroyed ... (hopefully that's it in a nutshell?)

When Revelation speaks about New Jerusalem coming down from heaven in and the tent of God being with mankind do we not see TWO different groups of people ...?

The ones who are hungering and thirsting ... SPIRITUAL persons let's say ... and the ones who opposite in thought and deed ... the one who are WITHOUT FAITH ... murderers, fornications ... NOT SPIRITUAL people ...

Rev. 21:2-8 ...

2 I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.” 6 And he said to me: “They have come to pass! I am the Al′pha and the O·me′ga, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. 7 Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.”

Now, is this not the time frame of the thousands years ...? And could 'Christ ruling in the midst of the enemies' be also referring to this time period as well ...?

Further on in Rev. 21:24-27 it shows New Jerusalem as having 'gates' and that these gates will not ever be closed ... and that New Jerusalem will be a cause for light to all the nations to walk by ... and that only those who will bring glory and honor will be able to enter into those gates, while those as it mentioned in verse 27, who carry on lying or doing disgusting things will not be able to enter ...

24 And the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 And its gates will not be closed at all by day, for night will not exist there. 26 And they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27 But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it; only those written in the Lamb’s scroll of life [will].

Then in chapter 22 we see again two groups of people in verse 11 ...

11 He that is doing unrighteousness, let him do unrighteousness still; and let the filthy one be made filthy still; but let the righteous one do righteousness still, and let the holy one be made holy still.

Then we see a wee bit further on in verse 14 that there will be those who may have been practicing this 'evilness' ... but then 'CHANGE' by washing their robes ... and then they too will have permission to go through the gates ... while those who are practicing badness are still outside ...NOT allowed to enter ...

Rev. 22:14,15 ...

14 Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.’


I got to thinking why would anyone who had access to New Jerusalem want to 'leave' ... (or go in and out) and then thought it would be perhaps to to speak to those outside who had no spirituality and would try to help them come to the point of 'washing their robes' ...?

Also ... I don't really think ... but then again how can we know for sure ...;) that the 'walls' of "New Jerusalem" will be 'literal' ... for then how can Satan and his followers 'surround a people without walls' ... who will look helpless and undefended ... if all we would have to do is go through the 'gates' ...?

Anyway ... not sure if I made myself very clear or just confused matters more ... if so ... just ignore all the above ... for I 'think' that we have been taught that some of these things have already taken place and that they are not really speaking about the 1000 years?:giverose::huh::shocked::love: Or maybe I should just have kept my mouth tightly closed and continued to wonder in silence :quiet::thinking:

My love as always ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
Quick question BR,, I know you have been taught that the thousand years was going to be “blissfull” and from your comment those that “don't listen” will be instantly destroyed.

May I pose to you a question.. What makes you feel or think that it is going to be very much different then we have it now? I for one feel that is why we need to learn patience,, for if we are to teach people that are resurrected do we not need compassion and patience as our father has had? They will mess up, that is a given. IT says that time frame is to restore all things, the only portion in the bible that makes mention of something being instant. Was the change over in the twinkling of an eye.. All other things take time, So therefore must take patience “ which I believe is putting up with things that aren’t quite how they should be”
IF we have a King “Jesus” and all resurrected humans need to be taught as well as those that “survive” we will most likely have some form of laws to deal with things, they will be completely righteous but they will be needed. We all need rules to know when we did things that are not quite right. Could not this place be the outside? While those who understand and have made the needed changes be the spiritual?


Just keeping ya thinking

Love ya,
Sorry brothers, I don't have any strong opinions about people being "instantly destroyed" after Armageddon; my mind is still open on what will happen.
Also, most of my quotes are from the Septuagint, if they sound a bit unfamiliar. However, the point that I was trying to make is that most Bibles have misled us by the mistranslation of the words zoe aionos, and all Christians should know this.
Believe me, the translators have known about this for centuries, because it would be impossible to miss, but they kept the general public unaware.
If you look up the word aionos in a Bible dictionary, you'll see that many different words describe it. However, recognize that the people who write the dictionaries get their translated meanings from Bible translations, not from classical Greek. So, one wrong translated word begets many mistranslated words, and aionos is the poster child for such abuse.
I didn't do the research on this, it was provided by a brother who is now dead. I simply compiled it all into an article.
I'm glad that some of you enjoyed it.
JW
Just so u know jwhvacr,
My reply was to BR Brusied reed, sorry for the confusion, I know someone gave u the CR nickname and it may have been confusing

And what u say about mis trans begeting more wrong thinking.

That is the main principle I have lived by, But at the same time God can make things clear for us.
My brother,
Then yours is the wise course. While so may are dogmatic and willing to argue views that may or may not be valid, we both know to keep an open mind, for His ways aren't our ways.
JW

:clap: Greetings JWVHACR!! :clap:




:hug: Wow!! Thank you so much for your thoughts mate!! :hug: I hope to read more and more and more -- Hehehe!! :hug: I feel this forum is blessed by Jahs Spirit for it to have so many humble and knowledgeable ones here (me -- not yet humble, and definitely aint knowledgeable!! :hug:Hehehe!!). May our Father continue to bless you -- and all my fellow slaves!! :hug:




May LOVE be with you!

your bro -- beau! :friends::friends::friends:
Hello there TD ... BR here:giverose: ... da da da da ... aka ... CR also if you remember a bit back I was also named that lovely name 'bentweed' by our dear 'woofie' girl ...:funnyface::hug:

Just saw your question to me my brother ...:coffeeread:

Yeah ya got me thinking ...;):thinking:

Could you hold on a quick sec though til I get my coffee so as to share a cup with you ... then maybe my thinking processes will flow just a wee bit easier ...:huh::drinking::happyheart:

Ahhh I'm back and the coffee is delicious ... :D

Now to your question ...:confused:

I KNEW I would most likely cause more confusion than any ...:funnyface:

Since the thousand year reign of peace of our Lord Christ Jesus is also said to be one of 'peace' it would only stand to reason that VERY GOOD things are going to be happening on our home ...:thumbup::thumbsup:

After all when you look at the prophesies in Isaiah for instance you see that we will be RICHLY BLESSED by our faithful course of loyalty to our God and his Son ...

For example ...

Isa. 65:20-25
...

20 “No more will there come to be a suckling a few days old from that place, neither an old man that does not fulfill his days; for one will die as a mere boy, although a hundred years of age; and as for the sinner, although a hundred years of age he will have evil called down upon him. 21 And they will certainly build houses and have occupancy; and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat [their] fruitage. 22 They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full. 23 They will not toil for nothing, nor will they bring to birth for disturbance; because they are the offspring made up of the blessed ones of Jehovah, and their descendants with them. 24 And it will actually occur that before they call out I myself shall answer; while they are yet speaking, I myself shall hear.

25 “The wolf and the lamb themselves will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw just like the bull; and as for the serpent, his food will be dust. They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,” Jehovah has said.


So, perhaps while those who are on Jehovah's side and who wholeheartedly support the kingdom arrangement they will be BLESSED and perhaps even PROTECTED during this time ...?

As far as those that 'don't listen' ... maybe you missed what I was 'trying' to say ... wasn't hard in that I really wasn't that clear ... that in actuality ... I'm NOT sure that they are destroyed 'right away' ...:redface: For indeed it will take some TIME for these ones to perhaps come to the light ... :idea: but they can ...

Now are you even MORE confused my confused ...:huh::P

My dear br. JWHVACR ... so sorry for getting off track of your 'everlasting life' essay ...:redface: I thought the two might go hand in hand ...

I have always had a wee bit of trouble with 'grammar' ... and so have no doubt missed the sublities of your words ...

So, just to be 'clear' in my own mind ...

Do you think we will have everlasting life here on earth ... ENDLESS life?

Lots of love to all ... your sis ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

PS ... like what you said about not being dogmatic ... I hear you and we are on the same page ...:thumbup:
My brother (I just got my coffee too... flavored espresso... Ahhh), I don't wish to be dogmatic for I've had no heavenly revelations. However, if you go back and look at the subheading Is Everlasting Life on Earth Possible?, you will see where I quoted Hebrews 1:10-12, which seems to indicate what science tells us, that all things come to an end... and forever is a long time.
Does this mean that we too will come to an end? I don't know, but I doubt it.
YES BR or befuddled reasoning :D

Just was making a point of not being to quick to kill people off is all..

We have been extended mercy.. so we should intern extend mercy..
I tend to look at it from the perspective "if they were my own" what would I want done for them.. I would want to be very vry pateint and hope for the best possible outcome.

:happyheart:
Hello again ... by the way ... I am a SISTER ... in case you wanted to know ...:giverose: I know the "BR" can be kind of confusing ... but it is short for 'bruised reed' ...:happyheart:

That is what I 'thought' you might be saying ... but I wasn't quite sure ...:huh:

Yes forever IS along time ... and isn't it WONDERFUL knowing that our God is TIMELESS ...!!:thumbsup:

Since we will be his 'children' in the truest sense of the word once we have reached the state of 'perfection' that our first humans parents had ... then we will be just beginning to realize the extent of what our 'inheritance' holds out for us ...

It is obvious that you have put a LOT of time and thought into your words, so I would like to ask you something else if I may ...:giverose:

If you take a look at a very familiar Scripture to us all ... Ps. 37:28,29 we can see that the idea of ENDLESS LIFE is not a mere 'wish' or 'fancy' ... but rather a PROMISE from our God ...

28 For Jehovah is a lover of justice,
And he will not leave his loyal ones.

to time indefinite they will certainly be guarded;
But as for the offspring of the wicked ones, they will indeed be cut off.

29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

Now let us just take a peek at verse 28 for a sec ... better take another sip of that espresso my brother ... ;)

Our Bible NWT uses the word 'time indefinite' ... perhaps IMHO this isn't the 'best' word to be used here ... for it 'could' seem to indicate that it may not be 'forever' as we have to come to know 'forever' ... if you look in esword under comparison of Scriptures the other Bibles render this word as 'forever' with one using 'permanently' ...

Now WHAT is the Hebrew word that is used in the verse ...?

It is olam ... and means in part ... (just will use the pertinent definitions as its long ... but it is found in Strong's page 470 number 5769)

eternity; always; continuance, eternal, (for, [n-l] ever (lasting, -more, of old) lasting, perpetual, world (without end)

It also says to compare ad 5703 ...

eternity; ever (-lasting, -more) perpetually, + world without end.

and netsach ...

continually; always (-s), constantly, ever (more), perpetual

So, here we see that our God will protect us, or safeguard us for HOW LONG LONG ...?

I think the answer is obvious ...;)

Then in verse 29 it AGAIN uses the word 'forever' ... but it is a DIFFERENT word that is used in verse 28 and it is ...

ad

eternity, ever (-lasting, -more), perpetually, +world without end

So, AGAIN we see that Jehovah says the 'righteous man' will live on the earth for HOW LONG ... :giverose:

Now if we go the Greek Scriptures and look at another familiar Scripture at Titus 1:2 we can see what IT says ...:coffeeread::read:

2 upon the basis of a hope of the everlasting life which God, who cannot lie, promised before times long lasting,


Some other Bible translations use the word 'eternal' and the Greek word that is used is ...

aionios

perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):- eternal, for ever, everlasting


This is a VERY important Scripture for us as it speaks about our GOD'S WORD ... HIS PROMISES ... HIS VERY HONOR ...

He CANNOT LIE ... and so when he says we will have everlasting life then we can rest assured that this will come to pass!!:D

So, just based on these two Scriptures ... IMHO ... there is CLEAR evidence that the life to which we look forward to is ENDLESS ... for the names that will be written in the 'book of life' will be there FOREVER ...

Just a couple of thoughts to maybe chew on ...?:confused::eat:;)

Warm Christian love to you my brother ... your sis ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

JWHVACR Wrote:
My brother,
Then yours is the wise course. While so may are dogmatic and willing to argue views that may or may not be valid, we both know to keep an open mind, for His ways aren't our ways.
JW


Dear JWHVACR!

You are so absolute right.

It is interesting to be aware of and keep in mind that Religious leaders, in the whole world history, have done in their translations and interpretation of words from the Holy Scriptures, by being dogmatic and to fit their doctrines.

I can't get rid of be thinking of the Greek word "Eudolothutos" Paul use in 1 Corinthians 8:4 as James in Acts 15:29 where he is dealing with the subject "What have been sacrificed to idols".

It is therefore very interesting to be aware of that the Watchtower Society have translated these words different, opposite most other translators, in an attempt to make it difficult to understand for the readers that Paul and James was dealing with the same subject. By doing it different, would make it look like that Paul, in accordance to the Watchtowers reasoning, was an apostate.

The reason for that Paul he refused the Apostolic decree, by his permission for the Christians to eat what was sacrificed to idols, instead of abstain, was because he clearly understand that James comments was a strong recommendation, not a Christian Law.  

Above was only a thought, but back to the topic.

If we look at the nature it is also interesting to be aware of that everything has a circulation, dies or broken down and are re- circulated and I have for many years been wondering why everything which has life in it shall die and that have among others, raised the question, when did the animals "committed sin" and has to die of age, as we humans.

Is it because they can't think abstract like us humans or is it because we humans like to get more and can't accept that we are going to die, we have created the conception, everlasting life?

As a friend of mine said: "The life is very risky, you die the longer you live". Mostly of us like to live and get more out of everything and can't accept that our lifetime is limited, to 70 maybe 80 years when it goes high.

I personally have a dream, before Jehovah close my eyes, that I will be able to se all those persons who have found mercy in front of His eyes and as you stated "for His ways aren't our ways". living in peace and harmony on earth, as described in Revelation 21:1-8, without control of wicked men’s ideology, translations and doctrines, based at Mind Control, to control others, whether it is dogmatic Political or religious leaders, those who have sent thousands and other thousands of persons into and still do, a premature death, directly or indirectly! That was definitely not what Jesus teach us and show of examples!


Christian love to all of you.

Talkactive.

Ps.
The Watchtowers hypocrisy in the blood question can be seen and are documented at http://www.ajwrb.org

Ecclesiastes 1:18!
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
-----------------------------------------------------------
People can’t hear and carry the truth, because the lies are tickling their ears!

Jeremiah 8:8!
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

NB.
It has to be mentioned that blood as medicine or any other medicine isn't good medicine, since there will always be side effects, opposite the healing Jesus and his disciples afforded, showing what to come, but in the meantime we have to deal with the life itself as sacred and be able to make personal decisions, to sustain the most important for Jehovah and each individual, the life itself in accordance to Galatians 6:5 and not being forced by threats and sanctions into a premature death, by man made doctrines, in opposition to what comes forth in 2 Corinthians 1:24 and 1 Peter 5:3! Like Tully and thousands of others haven’t been able to do:

http://www.energeticsolutions.com.au/tully_story.pdf

Among other places documented in Awake from May 22, 1994! Thousands have died......

My sister;
I know very well what the dictionaries say and why they say it, for please notice my second post above.
I believe that the detailed evidence in the article proves that aionos doesn't mean everlasting or eternal. That's why the Society changed the Hebrew word (which is translated as ionos in the Septuagint) as time indefinite in the NWT. It's also why they translated the word as system of things at Matthew 24:3.
And as for the Society's rendering in Psalm 37:29 "they will reside FOREVER upon it, the Hebrew word translated forever there is simply ohlam once again, so this is a mistranslation if the rendering of the same word in verse 28 is correct.
Also, notice that the same word that is used to translate ohlam in the Septuagint (aionos), is what is translated as everlasting in Titus 1:2.
You might notice the same word in Aramaic. I can't write it here, but on a keyboard it translates as Ml9ld. Highlight and copy those letters, then go to the site http://www.peshitta.org/cgi-bin/lexicon.cgi, paste it in the space, select Aramaic Word, then Search. You'll find that it gives three very different meanings (which strangely are the same different meanings given for aionos and ohlam), eternity, world, and age. This proves that dictionaries simply print meanings as they are found in other Bible translations, not in the classical language.
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