Bible Translation – it ain’t necessarily so
Rev 6:12,13,14,15
On the whole the New World Bible is not a bad translation, especially if you have the New World Reference edition which has footnotes and an appendix explaining any divergence.
In translating from one language to another there are however at times insurmountable problems, because a word in the original language may be generic, whereas the translated word is specific, in which case the translator is guided by context, his or her understanding of the subject and also his or her mindset or belief. With the best will in the world they cannot be truly objective or completely accurate; at best it is a good interpretation of the original.
For instance the Greek word seismos, is most often translated as earthquake. However, whereas earthquake is limited to a quaking of the earth, seismos is a more general term meaning quaking or shaking; see how it is used at Matt 8:24 (NW agitation).
In one instance where I don’t think earthquake is the best word to use in translating seismos is at Rev 6:12, as in the very next verse it uses the verb form of the word (seismenay) to translate … as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind…. Additionally it tells us the kings, military commanders etc, hid themselves in caves and rock-masses (vs15), which they would not do if they were sheltering from earthquakes.
It may, however, well refer to a worldwide severe weather event, especially if we compare ‘the heavens being rolled up as a scroll’ (vs14) to satellite pictures of hurricane systems. If that is the case then great shaking would serve better than great earthquake.
Hi c i!
I used to love the NWT. Now I realize that every translation is an interpretation. Oh well! Even if we know the origional language, we don't have the origional text. Even the scribes that copied it were sometimes corrupt!
Bible Translation – it ain’t necessarily so
Rev 6:12,13,14,15
PS: Further to the above
Bible Translation – it ain’t necessarily so
Matt 24:28, 27; Lu 17:37,24
On the whole, the New World Bible is not a bad translation, especially if you have the New World Reference edition which has footnotes and an appendix explaining any divergence.
However, in translating from one language to another, problems do occur at times because there is no equivalent English word that has the exact same connotation as the Greek word. The translator may then use the English word that is closest in meaning and connotation, this difference, although important may well be lost on the reader.
For instance the Greek word ptoma (Strong’s#4430) is used at Matt 24:28 and is translated carcass in the NWB translation, and soma (Strong’s#4983) is used at Lu17:37, which is translated body in the NWB. So far so good, the translator has made the distinction but has the WBTS taken note of the distinction in their explanation of the text?
Soma/body can mean a body (dead or alive), or a person, whereas ptoma/carcass has a negative connotation in both the Septuagint and the New Testament Bible usage and is never used for a living body. We do not know the exact word Jesus used but his listeners clearly understood it to mean a dead body/carcass and therefore would not have applied it to a living body such as the church.
In the past the WBTS applied btoma/soma of Matt 24:28 and Lu 17:37 to the body of the living church. I don’t know if they still do, but clearly it can only apply to a dead body.
Closely allied to this verse and intensely interesting is Matt 24:27 and Lu 17:24 which reads, …for just as the lightning (a noun, astrapay) comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be …(Matt 24:27) …for even as lightning flashing, by it’s flashing (the verb form of astrapay), shines from one part under heaven to another part under heaven, so the Son of man will be… (Lu 17:24).
The word of interest in both verses is astrapay (Strong’s #796) translated lightning. In English the literal definition is limited to sheet or fork lightning with a connotation of speed and a bright flash. But does astrapay have the same implications in Greek? See how it is used at Lu 11:36 …it will all be as bright as when lamp gives you light (astrapay) by its rays. Here it certainly does not indicate a speedy brief bright flash, particularly if we keep in mind they used oil lamps. That means in Greek astrapay has a broader usage and meaning than lightning does in English.
Reading Matt 24:27 and Lu 17:24 again with this in mind we get a different picture ...for as the light(ing) comes out of east to west... . Now we see a pre-dawn sky growing lighter from east to west, a gradual process, much like the dawning of a day …so the arrival of the Son of man will be. Even as Jesus said a couple of verses earlier in Lu 17:20 …the kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness . Compare 2 Peter 1:19 …until the day dawns and a daystar (lit. light bearer) rises in your hearts…
Has this not already begun, brothers?
Love from one excited little scarlet spattered larvae
coccus
Hi c i!
I used to love the NWT. Now I realize that every translation is an interpretation. Oh well! Even if we know the origional language, we don't have the origional text. Even the scribes that copied it were sometimes corrupt!
Hey there e-magine,
Do not imagine Jehovah is unaware of our plight.
Of course our corrupt nature has played its dastardly part all throughout the ages, and also in Bible translation. But take heart there is still enough to be found in the original languages to guide us and encourage us, and like a light beacon it draws us.
PS: and you don't have to be a linguist to make sense of it. A Hebrew/English and Greek/English interlinear, a Strong's Concordance and a couple of additional lexicons go a long way. But don't take the Xperts word for it, check the etymology yourself and see if it makes sense, this is where Strong's comes in handy.
Remember what it says a Dan 12:3,9,10.
Many will cleanse themselves and will be refined... . This, and the timing (Dan 11:40;12:1 ... and during that time) are crucial factors to us gaining true understanding. Only as we put into practice and live Jesus' sayings Matt 7:24 (not necessarily the WTBS's sayings) can we begin to get true knowledge.
Take heart, the light is getting brighter and brighter.
Love
coccus
Thank you e-magine
They look interesting and deserve close scrutiny, particularly the second one. I notice that they have changed the Hebrew from left to right to make it easier for the western reader. Also instead of employing the waw consequtive it brings out the true flavour of the Hebrew verbs.
I tried to cut and paste a segment but it didn't work. Have a look at Gen 1:5
... and he is calling Elohim to the light day and to the darkness he calls night.... and he is becoming evening and he is becoming morning, day one.
Here's something I've been considering for a while. Hebrews used to count the new day from sunset to sunset, didn't they. Here in verse 5 it clearly shows day one just beginning from that point forward, rather than retrospective--just as when Jesus was born it was year one at his birth rather than 12 months later. If my supposition is correct then day seven is still to come.
These are exciting times to live in, don't you think?
coccus