Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

The American Medical Association and many other medically related societies use a version of the caduceus as a symbol. While having some origin in Greek mythology, the symbol appears to have even older roots. These roots even suggest that instead of being snakes, the coiled animals are actually a parasitic worm.




There are a few of us who hypothesize that it originated with ancient Israel as a symbol for God's ordained medical priests during the wanderings in the wilderness.



Fiery Serpent

Jehovah told him to make a figure in the form of a serpent and to place it upon a signal pole. Moses complied, and “it did occur that if a serpent had bitten a man and he gazed at the copper serpent, he then kept alive.”—Nu 21:4-9; 1Co 10:9.

*** it-1 p. 505 Copper Serpent ***

Jesus Christ made clear the prophetic meaning of the wilderness event involving the copper serpent when he told Nicodemus: “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life.” (Joh 3:13-15) Like the copper serpent that Moses placed on a pole in the wilderness, the Son of God was impaled or fastened on a stake, thus appearing to many as an evildoer and a sinner, like a snake, being in the position of one cursed. (De 21:22, 23; Ga 3:13; 1Pe 2:24)

serpents that Jehovah sent among the Israelites evidently had to gaze at the copper serpent in faith. Similarly, to gain everlasting life through Christ, it is necessary to exercise faith in him.

The two snakes represent the two polarities, male and female. You COULD say Adam and Eve. You could even say the two witnesses. The scepter represents the spinal column, and the ball at the top is the pineal gland or third eye. There's nothing demonic about it.

The Bible is DEEP.

Love and Peace,
Jimmy C.

Here is some interesting info:

When most people think of Seraphim, they think of angels, but earliest usages of the term refer to serpent demons. The concept of the serpent as a demon was well known to the Egyptians, Babylonians and Assyrians. In Persian mythology, the serpent Dahaka was the incarnation of the evil spirit Angra Mainyu.

The word Seraphim comes from the plural of the Hebrew word 'saraph' meaning 'to burn.' Initially, it probably referred to the burning sensation and inflammation caused by the venom of a snake bite. In later passages, the word 'flying' attached to the term may have referred to the quick movements snakes make.

In Numbers 21:6, for instance, Seraphim make an appearance in a passage that only makes sense in the context of serpents

And the Lord sent fiery serpents [literally 'Seraphim serpents'] among the people, and they bit the people; so that many people of Israel died.

In Numbers 21:8, The Lord commands Moses to make a 'fiery serpent' ('a saraph') and put it atop a pole. When those who were bitten looked upon the serpent, they were cured.

Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live.

Other passages that refer to fiery [seraph] serpents are:

Deuteronomy 8:15 - "He led you through the great and terrible wilderness, with its fiery serpents [saraph] and scorpions and thirsty ground where there was no water; He brought water for you out of the rock of flint."

Isaiah 14:29 - "For from the serpent's root a viper will come out, And its fruit will be a flying serpent. [lit 'a flying saraph']"

Seraphim as Winged Creatures
In Isaiah 6:1ff, Seraphim (plural of seraph) are described as creatures with six wings and they no longer retain their serpentine form. In fact, they are described as if they now take the form of humans, with faces, hands and feet, and this is what we usually think of when we hear the term Seraphim.

Also of note - Lucifer is often identified as one of the Seraphim. It's interesting that the serpent of the Garden of Eden may have some connection with the angelic term.

I think there has always been 2 ways of looking at the snake. One was as a destroyer of men and the other was as the healer of men. In mythology, he was called Aesculapius.

Here’s an excerpt from Wiki:

Greco-Roman god of medicine. He was the son of Apollo and the nymph Coronis. He learned the art of healing from the Centaur Chiron. Fearful that Asclepius would make humans immortal, Zeus slew him with a thunderbolt. His cult originated in Thessaly and spread throughout Greece. Because he was said to cure the sick in dreams, the practice of sleeping in his temples became common. Asclepius was often represented holding a staff with a serpent coiled around it.

I think Zeus is the mythological equivalent of Jehovah, but He always appears as a bully-god in mythology. In my son’s video game God of War, the demi-god Kratos opposes Zeus’ bullying outright and fights against him as the hero.

Although this is Greco Roman, I think it goes back a long way further into the past, as most of this mythology does.

I like to think that this story reflects the different ways ordinary people felt about God and His lordship, and Satan’s part in the relationship between God and man.

With Aesculapius in mind, it seems strange that such an ambiguous image was chosen to be looked upon for the healing of God’s people. It might be explained in the religious upbringing Moses had, or the religious observances that went on around him. I guess I can’t forget in all this speculation that it was serpents that were killing the people, so a symbolic propitiatory sacrifice was used to cure the people of what was killing them.

Apryl, I’m not sure how valid it is to compare the fiery snakes to the Pharisees. Although they may fit the bill, the relationship of the antitypical and typical is already made in scripture.

The Greeks took all the religious icons of the ancient world, created Greek versions of them, and pretended they had originated with them. But no, Aesculapius and so many other mythological gods date back to the beginning of time.

Interesting quote by Jesus:

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! ... Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are you to flee from the judgment of Gehenna?" (Mathew 23:29-33)

Like I said, they may fit the bill, but is that the point?

Why did Moses erect a copper serpent?

Because God told him to.

Why did God tell him to?

Quite simple actually. The whole purpose of the occasion was to be a type of Christ. Jesus compares his own death on the cross to the uplifted serpent (John 3:14–15). Looking at the serpent prefigures faith in Christ who is lifted up (John 3:14–16). The reference to the Son of Man being lifted up refers to both Jesus' death and his resurrection and exaltation to glory in heaven.

When you read the story in Numbers, notice a few things: 1) The serpent on the pole is not preventative. It is for bitten people (Num 21:8). The poison is in them, and without divine intervention they will die. 2) The snakes in the camp are from the Lord. He sent them (Num 21:6). The wrath of God is on this people for their sin of ingratitude and murmuring and rebellion. 3) The means God chooses to rescue the people from his own curse is a picture of the curse itself. 4) All they have to do in order to be saved from God’s wrath is look at his provision hanging on a pole.

We know that Jesus read the Old Testament believing that it was all pointing to him.

Jesus, in the place of the snake, is the source of healing, the source of rescue from the poison of sin, and the wrath of God. Jesus is the source of eternal life

Jesus in the place of the snake is portrayed as evil and a curse. The snake on the pole is a picture of God’s curse on the people. So it was with Jesus. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:21, “For our sake [God] made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” And in Galatians 3:13, he said, “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us.”

In becoming like the snake, he was the embodiment of our sin, and the embodiment of our curse. And in becoming sin and curse for us, he took ours away. In this comparison with the snake on a pole, what does the looking on the snake mean? It means look to Christ. Believe in him. See Christ lifted up in your place. Place your trust in him. When we place our trust in Christ, our sin and God’s wrath are taken away, and God is for us totally. And if God is for us and on our side, we will never die, but live forever with him in joy.

That is what I think the Bible tells us the message of Numbers 21 is.

As the hymn writer put it:

Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.

Matt

I thought we all knew the story and the basic idea behind it. My interest was Apryl’s introductory point about idolatry, which I feel must be a good one when you consider the copper serpent idol became a god for the Israelites over time.

I wasn't commenting on the idolatry point brendan. Idolatry was not what God had in mind. It was the Israelites who turned the serpent into an idol. It wasn't the serpent who healed them, it was God. The serpent didn't actually do anything, God did everything.

My post was more in response to this quote:

That is a very vital question that gets right to the core of the Gospel and our Christian faith. Why would Jesus be compare to something evil that was killed by God? Comparing himself with a snake is shocking. Jesus in the place of the snake is portrayed as evil and a curse. This is what is so shocking. The snake is evil. The snakes were killing people. As I said above, Jesus is compared to a an evil snake because we are evil and deserve to be killed by God. The snake on the pole is a picture of God’s curse on the people. So it was with Jesus.

"God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become God's righteousness in him." - 2 Corinthians 5:21 ISV

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written, 'A curse on everyone who is hung on a tree!'" - Galatians 3:13 ISV

This happened so that all who trust in the risen Messiah would be able to enjoy a relationship with Jehovah free from the condemnation and burden of sin.

Matt