Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

I remember when I was an active JW. Any apostate people I ever met on the doors I walked away from. When I was at Twickenham rugby stadium for the district convention and there were other Christians trying to preach to `us` how dare they they:), I walked past and ignored them. I would not read any books that were written by apostates and I refused to go to university because of higher criticism and the other potential stumbling blocks. What made the difference for me? It was no one thing but a conglomeration of things. In the end, and after a complete nervous breakdown that lasted three years with attempted suicides, I gave myself permission to look. It wasn't good logic and external facts then led me to look at good logic and external facts. It was an internal change of permissions. I reckoned God preferred a live sinner more than a dead saint. The spirit was active as well during this period, but I did not even give myself permission to listen to that before I gave myself permission to. The spirit is more powerful that logic and facts but not even that was enough until my discipline from God resulted in my correct use of my free will, namely to impartially investigate truth on the grounds of mercy and love.

The spirit actually spoke to me during my hour of tribulation. Its exact words were and I quote: "You will be redeemed!" Thats all it was, four words. When I was young at about the age of 7 or 8 thereabouts I had a dream where I was watching the TV with my mother who is a JW. At that age TV is very authoritative and in the dream there was a program that was going to announce the true religion. Every denomination known to man was systematically appearing on the screen with whatever logo to go with it, announcing at the bottom of the screen with words and writing true or false. Every screen was of course announcing false for every faith. Watching I was convinced that this was expected because only JWs have the truth. When the JW screen came up I was getting ready to hear the anticipated answer. However it announced false. I woke up at that point feeling the feeling of sick still I experienced in the dream. I never forgot that dream even now. Did i listen to it? Nah. However God made me listen in the end. All along he gave me cues and clues and never left me. God knew what would happen in my future and pre-prepared me, even though I didn't listen at the time. What God said to me I suspect is also possibly a message to all who have been through, or are going through the WT experience. "You will be redeemed!". That is if one has not been already. Only God know that I suppose.

A one way coversation is not humble. Seems to me you are afraid. That is soooo JW.

Besides, our excuses or horror stories as you put them are not even our main "gripe". It's the Society's BAD Theology.

actually--the attitude of Jehovah's Witnesses is anything but humble--they know it all. We went to the doors of strangers with all the answers to all their questions... I KNow this because it was my attitude for a long time also--right down to telling people that Jehovah will leave them if they do this, that, and thus--imagine the gall of thinking you can Now speak for the Most High-not much humility there---but friends I also remind myself that this is what most of us were--sometimes it is a good reminder :heartbeat:

ps--rejecting the organization is NOT rejecting God. Thinking that is a form of idolatry all on it's own...

The Watchtower teaching seems to be something like this. There is one true God. His name is the Watchtower Society aka Governing Body aka FDS etc.

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

[ only if you're from New Joisey, Blithe! :giggle: ]

I take exception to the narrow definitions you use, Jemima. To be humbled before God is not always something one does to one's self - it can actually be a blessing from God Himself. It doesn't feel so good at first, until you realize the source of the humbling - then it feels like a blessing!
Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, for all his works are right and his ways are just; and those who walk in pride He is able to humble. Daniel 4:37

Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, 1 Peter 5:6

Humiliation, on the other hand, is more of a public embarrassment, whether one is right or wrong. I can't really relate to that one, but to the 'fall from pride' humbling I can relate.

Rejecting lies spoken in the name of any religion is not cutting one's self off from God and I'm confident He approves of exposing falehood -
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. Ephesians 5:11

So there is a righteous hatred of all things evil that we inculcate because we love God and truth - and His Son is the only truth to which we turn, as only faith in Christ and following his commands makes us complete towards God. We should not place our faith or hope in any other person or group of persons. It's because of the name "Christ Jesus" that many are expelled from their former places of worship - just as I was told that I "used his name too much"! [I am neither disfellowshipped or disassociated from JWs, but now reside in 'the wilderness', so-to-speak] Jesus' name is the one of which we should never feel ashamed, but rather we rejoice over that name!
"Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! Luke 6:22

Acts 4:10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

If any of us express hatred, it's not towards Witnesses themselves, for we feel a special kinship with the people - but it's the misleadings and falseness of the teachings of the WT we hate.

Before God sent His Son as Messiah, to be a witness to the greatness of Almighty God was the best thing a person could be. But now, in this Christian age, we are to be, by God's decree, witnesses of His Son -
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my(Jesus') witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." Acts 1:8 This doean't diminish our love for our Heavenly Father, but it actually magnifies His glory! Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." Acts 2:36

No matter where we are on this earth, and no matter where we worship God, either in or out of any religious denomination - we stand alone before Him. No 'earthly organisation' can give us His love or redemption - those only come through His Son, our Lord - we believers are Christ's congregation - and it's a beautiful thing!

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Indeed, to speak the truth of God's love and mercy through Christ is done out of pure love, not hate!

May you find peace and profound love, dear Jemima, in the truth that is our Lord Jesus, for it is found in no one else!

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

:peace: Willa

Malkah, you took the words out of my mouth.

The B&B team are good.

Let's remember where we came from and show our spiritual growth in LOVE.

Them's fighting words Jemima, but you will find it hard to dig up a fight here.

Love vicky.


P.S. Jemima you remind me of the young passionate vicky. May the peace of the holy spirit come upon you.

Jemima reminds me of the Apostle Paul before he knew the real truth regarding Jesus :thinking: Of course, not quite the same (at least I hope not :thinking:) because Paul had Christians killed for their beliefs!! :) :shocked: Oh well, we all know he thought he was doing God a favour, as all those do who throw their brothers and sisters out of the synagogue and heap reproach on their names..:read: Fortunately Jahweh knows the heart. :heartbeat: I sincerely hope you are deeply happy, without any disturbing thoughts or doubts, within the organization Jemima.
Christian love to all
Grateful :giverose:

and--she can't understand this at this time but we understand her a whole lot better than she understands us--that's ok--we'll be here for awhile yet :love:

wolfie,

Yes, at one time we all thought as Jehovah's Witnesses we needed nothing at all.

We were given all the answers by men and blindly followed them.

Revelation 3:17
Because you say: “I am rich and have acquired riches and do not need anything at all,” but you do not know you are miserable and pitiable and poor and blind and naked, 18 I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire that you may become rich, and white outer garments that you may become dressed and that the shame of your nakedness may not become manifested, and eyesalve to rub in your eyes that you may see.


Jemima's post reflects the opinions of all Jehovah's Witnesses.

They have no idea.

As a Jehovah's Witness myself I eventually had to come to the same conclusion that Jesus Christ recommended:

but you do not know you are miserable and pitiable and poor and blind and naked

That is what takes some humility.



In Christ

abe