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This scripture has been referenced by the WTBTS to mean an invasion of apostates among the flock?
Is this accurate?
The definition of oppressive/oppression:
Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety.

So... the exercise of authority or power? Hmm :thinking:
The definition of authority/power:
In government, authority is often used interchangeably with the term "power". However, their meanings differ: while "power" is defined as "the ability to influence somebody to do something that he/she would not have done", "authority" refers to a claim of legitimacy, the justification and right to exercise that power.

Does this mean that "oppressive wolves" would actually have the authority and power over the flock ? :dontknow:

Hey there Ieremias:hibye:

I've been thinking about this scripture and how it applies in our day.

"I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, Â and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." -- Acts 20:29-30

So, there are two points of entry: from the outside and from within. Either way there is an attempt to either bully the flock or mislead them.

I'd say offhand, that it has much to do with this warning from Jesus:

â€œWho really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings. â€œBut if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, â€˜My master is delaying,â€™ and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be." -- Matthew 24:45-51

The WT likes to place the evil slave outside the organization, but the sad truth is that they are positioned right where they can beat and mislead their fellow slaves. Instead of feeding the flock, they feed themselves and get drunk (with power).

The apostle Peter likewise warned:

"However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. Also, with covetousness they will exploit YOU with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering." -- 2 Peter 2:1-3

Do you see where this might fit, bro?

cheers,:drinking:
rez

Ieremias Wrote:

This scripture has been referenced by the WTBTS to mean an invasion of apostates among the flock?
Is this accurate?
The definition of oppressive/oppression:
Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety.

So... the exercise of authority or power? Hmm :thinking:
The definition of authority/power:
In government, authority is often used interchangeably with the term "power". However, their meanings differ: while "power" is defined as "the ability to influence somebody to do something that he/she would not have done", "authority" refers to a claim of legitimacy, the justification and right to exercise that power.

Does this mean that "oppressive wolves" would actually have the authority and power over the flock ? :dontknow:

Ieremias,

This is how Micah described the rulers of God's people:

Micah 3
1 And I proceeded to say: â€œHear, please, YOU heads of Jacob and YOU commanders of the house of Israel. Is it not YOUR business to know justice? 2 YOU haters of what is good and lovers of badness, tearing off their skin from people and their organism from off their bones; 3 YOU the ones who have also eaten the organism of my people, and have stripped their very skin from off them, and smashed to pieces their very bones, and crushed [them] to pieces like what is in a widemouthed pot and like flesh in the midst of a cooking pot. 4 At that time they will call to Jehovah for aid, but he will not answer them. And he will conceal his face from them in that time, according as they committed badness in their dealings.
5 â€œThis is what Jehovah has said against the prophets that are causing my people to wander, that are biting with their teeth and that actually call out, â€˜Peace!â€™ that, when anyone does not put [something] into their mouths, also actually sanctify war against him,

Sound like oppressive wolves from the inside who would actually have the authority and power over the flock ??

The evil slave.

In Christ

abe

Ieremias Wrote:

This scripture has been referenced by the WTBTS to mean an invasion of apostates among the flock?
Is this accurate?
The definition of oppressive/oppression:
Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety.

So... the exercise of authority or power? Hmm :thinking:
The definition of authority/power:
In government, authority is often used interchangeably with the term "power". However, their meanings differ: while "power" is defined as "the ability to influence somebody to do something that he/she would not have done", "authority" refers to a claim of legitimacy, the justification and right to exercise that power.

Does this mean that "oppressive wolves" would actually have the authority and power over the flock ? :dontknow:

Hello , Jeremiah !
you are welcome !

Now , the truth is , that the wolves had entered in God's people (living at the latter days) during the Russell and Rutherford period/time .

At the death of Rutherford they were able to exalt themselves at the position of "god" in God's Temple,
so, from 1942 onward they are ruling over God's people untill today
They are composing the Biblical "Man Of Lawlessness"

regarding theirs character , Jesus said
John 8:
44. "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father
He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him
Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
--------------
These are forming the earthly side of "Abaddon" "The Destroyer" group, under the command of their god-father , the devil , who is in fact the " star from heaven which had fallen to the earth at the moment of Revelation (9:1 ) writing !

Yes , indeed , Satan had been fallen during Jesus service on earth
see Luke 10:18.

the same way, those -on earth- who are under the command of Abaddon , are stars fallen from high positions

as Jude says
12. These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves;

clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;

13. wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam;

wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

AND what have they destroyed ?
They have destroyed the "pure worship" to God , the kind of worship "with truth and with spirit"

they set the "abomination" that caused desolation , even in the Temple of YHWH - as Jesus foretold it as a sign happening before of his coming

So , not Jesus is "destroyer" , but Satan and his offspring on earth - the MOL composed by wolves.

In the next future , when Jesus will come/arrive , He will say to these ones (wolves)
Matt 7:
22. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23. "And then I will declare to them,
'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

not very good result for the wolves ....

in Christ,
rus virgil

Rus,

It is those same wolves who have scattered the sheep.

That is why you can now find the sheep in the wilderness.

These are the sheep that Jesus Christ will gather when he returns.

In Christ

abe

ablebodiedman Wrote:

Rus,

It is those same wolves who have scattered the sheep.

That is why you can now find the sheep in the wilderness.

These are the sheep that Jesus Christ will gather when he returns.

In Christ

abe

yes !

in fact these wolves have set the "abomination" that caused desolation , even in the Temple of God - as Jesus foretold it as a sign happening before of his coming

15. "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

16. then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

in Christ,
rus virgil

rus virgil Wrote:

ablebodiedman Wrote:

Rus,

It is those same wolves who have scattered the sheep.

That is why you can now find the sheep in the wilderness.

These are the sheep that Jesus Christ will gather when he returns.

In Christ

abe

yes !

in fact these wolves have set the "abomination" that caused desolation , even in the Temple of God - as Jesus foretold it as a sign happening before of his coming

15. "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

16. then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

in Christ,
rus virgil

Rus,

I have always wondered if that might be what the angel meant when he told Daniel: "But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively".

Daniel 11
and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant [feature].

â€œAnd they will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation.

32 â€œAnd those who are acting wickedly against [the] covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively.

Thing is, how will they prevail unless they know it is the proper time?

â€œWho really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

In Christ

abe

anjaandreas Wrote:

Dear Rus,
you say`
Now , the truth is , that the wolves had entered in God's people (living at the latter days) during the Russell and Rutherford period/time .

Anja says: are you kidding....

This so called `God people` you are talking about are they born of the spirit ,:confused:

Sorry Rus, as far God opened my eyes this is the truth and not what you are saying to the lams who come here and try to free them self of this cult.

Anja,

The oppressive wolves did enter in among God's people and undermine them.

Just as prophesied.

The chosen ones (born of the spirit) have been misled and continue to be misled by the man of lawlessness.

Just as prophesied.

They do need to free themselves and get out because they will be desolated.

Just as prophesied.

The Christian Temple has been profaned.

Just as prophesied.

There will be some people who see through Satan's deception.

Just as prophesied.

2nd Thessalonians 2
However, we are obligated to thank God always for YOU, brothers loved by Jehovah, because God selected YOU from [the] beginning for salvation by sanctifying YOU with spirit and by YOUR faith in the truth.

What Rus has posted above will torment a lot of people.

Just as Prophesied.

Nope, Rus is not kidding.

In Christ

abe

ablebodiedman Wrote:

........................................................

Rus,

I have always wondered if that might be what the angel meant when he told Daniel: "But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively".

Daniel 11
and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant [feature].

â€œAnd they will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation.

32 â€œAnd those who are acting wickedly against [the] covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively.

Thing is, how will they prevail unless they know it is the proper time?

â€œWho really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

In Christ

abe

Dear Abe,

always wisdom is required ...
why ?
... (14) For God does speakâ€”now one way, now anotherâ€”
though man may not perceive it. Job 33.

again it is written down :
2. It is the glory of God to conceal a matter;
to search out a matter is the glory of kings. Proverbs 25.

Regarding those who have an anointing :
1 John 2
20. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
27. ........But as his anointing teaches you about all things.....

Based on the last verses many are thinking that now they are "knowing everything"
and still Jehovah commanded to be sealed certain things / Daniel 12:4,9.

How can be reconciled these things ?

We have to go to the "teaching of Christ" for the answer , that is, to Jesus !
He said (John 16)
13. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes,
he will guide you into all truth.
He will not speak on his own;
he will speak only what he hears,
and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Do we understand ?
"the Spirit will not speak on his own" but "he will speak only what he hears"

What does that means ? will the Spirit tell to the "one with an anointing" "all things" when the man wants , or will He tell "the truth" as He hears it from Heaven ?

It is God the One of whom will is done,
and it is God the One who decide when and what the Spirit will disclose to the man having "an anointing" !

Apostle Paul , one who had "an anointing" said (for his time)
9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10. but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

So , "when the perfect comes" , that is when Jesus comes "the partial will be done away"

Once again, in the main prophecy/the Song of Moses it is written down that during "the latter days" the people of God or Yeshurun ...
.......forsook God who made him,
And scorned the Rock of his salvation.
16. "They made Him jealous with strange gods;
With abominations they provoked Him to anger.
17. "They sacrificed to demons who were not God,
To gods whom they have not known,
New gods who came lately,
Whom your fathers did not dread.

Now , as the right result for them ,
Jehovah ... said, 'I will hide My face from them,
I will see what their end shall be;
For they are a perverse generation,
Sons in whom is no faithfulness.

Now , the main point is , at the time when Jehovah is "hiding His face from them" ,
that is ,
from those having "an anointment" ,...
...what do you think,
-- will Jehovah say/reveal something with the purpose that the Spirit to hear and to transmit it to those having "an anointing" ?
Further Jehovah said:
24. 'They will be wasted by famine, and consumed by plague
And bitter destruction;
And the teeth of beasts I will send upon them,
With the venom of crawling things of the dust.

What does "the famine" may means ?

These things had to be happen with those "having an anointment" !

And these things means "Jehovah's anger against His own people (of anointed ones and those with them) "
or the Day of Jehovah . Ezekiel 34:12 / Joel 2:2

When this Day of anger is passing , Jehovah proceed toward the group of those "with an anointing" as prophecised
Isaiah 54
6. "For the LORD has called you,
Like a wife forsaken and grieved in spirit,
Even like a wife of one's youth when she is rejected,"
Says your God.
7. "For a brief moment I forsook you,
But with great compassion I will gather you.
8. "In an outburst of anger
I hid My face from you for a moment,
But with everlasting lovingkindness I will have compassion on you,"
Says the LORD your Redeemer.

So , at this time Jehovah is "calling" her , that means He is speaking again , and the Spirit of truth is "speaking what He hear" to those having "an anointing" , again !

At this point enter in scene "the faithful and wise servant" , who has the duty to ...obey Jesus who is saying :
27. "What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light;
and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.

in Christ,
rus virgil

I must conclude that while the Spirit is saying absolutely nothing to me, He is telling some people a lot of lies.

Or could it be that some people suffer from the spiritual equivalent of hearing voices?

anjaandreas Wrote:

....................................
....................................
Dear Rus,
you say`
Now , the truth is , that the wolves had entered in God's people (living at the latter days) during the Russell and Rutherford period/time .

Anja says: are you kidding....

This so called `God people` you are talking about are they born of the spirit ,:confused:

Russel and Rutherford did bring their own knowledge ,it was their studys about scripture ,they wrote them down in their books and many are following their knowledge still in 2010.
But Gods children follow Christ.:giverose:
Gods children are not guided by men ,but they are born of the holy spirit .:cheer::happyheart:

Therefore, as for you, let that remain in you which you heard from the beginning. If that which you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son, and in the Father.
This is the promise which he promised us, the eternal life
These things I have written to you concerning those who would lead you astray .

Russel did lead many sheep astray ,his teachings of the scripture are not of the Holy spirit but they are a creation of his own mind .
And Rutherford did finnish the job ,he organized a prisson house to put all the sheep in his man made organization and call them Jehovah witness .

Sorry Rus, as far God opened my eyes this is the truth and not what you are saying to the lams who come here and try to free them self of this cult.

The verses you brought up here are talking of all who are not born of the Holy spirit,this is why Jesus said :
'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

As you prophesy ,Russel did and Rutherford did ,but Jesus says in Matt 7:
22. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

Dear Anja ,

please read my previous post

then ask yourself ,
if you would have lived in the Russell days , or immediately after the first world war ,
-- what have you been done ?
I mean , would have you acted exactly as you have speak here and now ?

If the Spirit would have speak to you only some things/"in part" , as he spoke to them (at that time) ,
do you think you would have been so "faithfull and wise" then , as you are today ?

Please use wisdom and answer for yourself ....

in Christ,
rus virgil

Abe ,
I was answering to you by combining the answer with that one for Anja .

brendan Wrote:

I must conclude that while the Spirit is saying absolutely nothing to me, He is telling some people a lot of lies.

Or could it be that some people suffer from the spiritual equivalent of hearing voices?

Brendan, be at peace my brother! The Spirit has moved you to "come to a conclusion". Is this absolutely nothing? No. It is a gift for you. We all receive different gifts. Rejoice and give thanks. Let each of us give back according to what we have received. Do not be questioning the gift in others. In the end, all will be revealed for what it is. Have faith in your own discernment, and avoid cynicism. It is a faith destroyer. :happyheart:

e-magine Wrote:

Brendan, be at peace my brother! The Spirit has moved you to "come to a conclusion". Is this absolutely nothing? No. It is a gift for you. We all receive different gifts. Rejoice and give thanks. Let each of us give back according to what we have received. Do not be questioning the gift in others. In the end, all will be revealed for what it is. Have faith in your own discernment, and avoid cynicism. It is a faith destroyer. :happyheart:

e-m, you may have forgotten that forums like this started from men who questioned the 'gift' in others.

My conclusion on this matter came from human deduction rather than spirit.

Peace to you too.

Hi Anja,

Some of us threw off the oppressive Watchtower Corporation at great personal cost. Although a business venture, it is, I think, to be also viewed as a group of individuals who play their own parts in the game. Some, God bless them, may even still believe their own nonsense. And thatâ€™s OK, so long as their illusion and their insanity stays personal. The problem is when they teach you their insanity as gospel and threaten you with punishments both in this world and the next if you don't adopt their view and their self-proclaimed prominence. Someone must speak out. When we meet the same type of people online, we should challenge what they say in the hope of maintaining balance, before the inmates end up running the asylum.

Regards,
Brendan.