Yes, I think the "holy ones" who survived until around 70AD were transformed, while the dead holy ones were resurrected around that time to meet the Lord, in harmony with Paul's and Jesus' teachings:
"...the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord." (1 Thess 4:15-17)"
"And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity... // ... Truly I say to YOU that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." (Mathew 24:31-34)
Jesus promised that ALL THOSE THINGS (in Mathew 24) would occur within a generation, which is doubtless why Paul said "we the living" would be caught away, along with the dead who rise. Paul knew it would happen within HIS generation - he EXPECTED to be alive when it happened (although Nero put him to death).
So yes, I believe Jesus and Paul.
Jesus DID come around 70AD, and gathered his holy ones around that time - as he said.
This, presumably, was an initial gathering... a "firstfruits" as it were, just as Jesus' own resurrection was "firstfruits".
Based on Revelation 14:13, it seems that those who die later on do not immediately get resurrected, but "rest" in death:
"And I heard a voice out of heaven say: “Write: Happy are the dead who die in union with [the] Lord from this time onward. Yes, says the spirit, let them rest from their labors, for the things they did go right with them."
I struggle to pinpoint the exact timeframe of this particular verse - but since the Reformation (15th century), the mark (taw, T, or "cross" - compare Ezekiel 9:4, NWT footnote) lost much of its force as the Bible became published widely, and people could see the sins of the Church and make an informed choice about accepting its mark or not, and engaging in the tortures, inquisitions, conquests and indulgences in the name of Christ.
06-02-2010, 09:55 AM
06-09-2010, 12:14 AM
Interpretum Wrote:
Hi Folks
Browsing again through Revelation last night, I thought about this part of scripture in particular:
"And I saw another strong angel descending from heaven, arrayed with a cloud, and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as the sun, and his feet were as fiery pillars, and he had in his hand a little scroll opened. And he set his right foot upon the sea, but his left one upon the earth, and he cried out with a loud voice just as when a lion roars. And when he cried out, the seven thunders uttered their own voices." (Rev 10:1-3)
Now, I noticed that, a few chapters later, two wild beasts emerge from those very same places upon which this angel placed his feet:
"And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea..." (Rev 13:1)
"And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth..." (Rev 13:11)
Browsing again through Revelation last night, I thought about this part of scripture in particular:
"And I saw another strong angel descending from heaven, arrayed with a cloud, and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as the sun, and his feet were as fiery pillars, and he had in his hand a little scroll opened. And he set his right foot upon the sea, but his left one upon the earth, and he cried out with a loud voice just as when a lion roars. And when he cried out, the seven thunders uttered their own voices." (Rev 10:1-3)
Now, I noticed that, a few chapters later, two wild beasts emerge from those very same places upon which this angel placed his feet:
"And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea..." (Rev 13:1)
"And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth..." (Rev 13:11)
Interpretum,
In regard to earth (land) and sea (water) watch these two video's which seem rather profound in that regard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f6AC99Br-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxDfBpcjKgs&NR
Interesting?
In Christ
abe
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