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There are a lot of they, their, you and your in this scripture which makes it hard to break down.

Who are the they, their and you and your?

I am going to attempt to break it down and am interested to see how it fits with everybody else's perception.


Romans 11:28-32
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[a] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Like most people I think the they, you and your are either Gentiles or Jews so will indicate which in the breakdown:


As far as the gospel is concerned, they - Jews

are enemies on your - Gentiles

account; but as far as election is concerned, they - Jews

are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you - Gentiles

who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their - Jews

disobedience, so they - Gentiles

too have now become disobedient in order that they - Jews

too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you - Gentiles


For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. - Jews and Gentiles



The Jews had a chance to be God's chosen people, they blew it and so the chance was extended to Gentiles.

I believe that the Gentiles have blown their chance just as badly as the Jews did.

This is why mercy will need to be extended to all.

What I am personally perceiving is that most Gentiles don't believe that they have blown it.

They actually think they have done a better job than the Jews.

Just to be perfectly clear on this, I am a Gentile.


In Christ

abe

just a couple observations brother

you think
"disobedience, so they - Gentiles "


it reads to me that the "they" is in fact the Jews..

and as for the gentiles being disobedient.

the simple rendering to me is.

he made a promise to a few decent men. and their children as well as the "wild" children all are disobedient. and as a result all are shown mercy..

Basicsally no one child can point the finger at another and say you are not of our Father you are an illegitamate child.

All are one whom have recieved a circumcision of the heart.
two flesh are made one so to speak.

just my opinion

TotalDismay,

It is a little confusing the way I broke it down.

The reference to that they is ahead of the they.

so they - Gentiles too have now become disobedient in order that

Suggesting that Gentiles would be just as disobedient and no better than the Jews.


That is the crucial point of the way I broke it down.

It implies that the Apostle Paul was making a prophetic statement about how it is all going to end rather than accusing his Roman Christian contemporary audience.


In Christ

abe

you seem to think I missed it..

29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you "gentiles" who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their "isreals" disobedience, 31so they "isreal" too have now become disobedient in order that they "isreal" too may now[a] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you "gentile".


do you see that where "their" is in vrs 30 follows with a they in thirty one.

this seems to be the same group their / they

TotalDsimay,

That makes your interpretation clearer, thanks.

I hope you agree that both interpretations are different.

Saying the gentiles received mercy because of the Jews disobedience

and then saying: 31so they too have now become disobedient

switches it back to the Gentiles.

That is what I think saying: "they too" does. switch to the other party.

The end result of your interpretation implies that the Gentiles do indeed in the end pull off something much better than the Jews were able to do.

I personally think a lot of Gentile Christians are going to be surprised.


In Christ

abe

didn't think of it this way
"The end result of your interpretation implies that the Gentiles do indeed in the end pull off something much better than the Jews were able to do.
"

was just trying to give you the perspective of how it reads to me.

But I do actually think that the gentiles do better then the isrealites did.

and it is what makes them "isrealites" jealous and then become grafted back in.

Nope. Paul is consistently referring to "them" as the Jews, and "you" as Gentiles.

"True, with reference to the good news they [Jews] are enemies for your [Gentiles] sakes, but with reference to [God’s] choosing they [Jews] are beloved for the sake of their [Jews] forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are not things he will regret. For just as you [Gentiles] were once disobedient to God but have now been shown mercy because of their [Jews] disobedience, so also these now [Jews] have been disobedient with mercy resulting to you [Gentiles], that they [Jews] themselves also may now be shown mercy. For God has shut them [Jews] all up together in disobedience, that he might show all of them [Jews] mercy."

Gentiles were once disobedient to God, but the Romans to whom he was writing were now obedient to God, and had been shown mercy, as a result of the Jews false step in killing their Messiah, and persecuting and driving from Jerusalem his followers.

I understand why this (and many other passages) might cause you difficulty, as you rip them out of their natural time and place context... but Romans 11 was written to the Roman congregation of Paul's day, in reference to Paul's Jewish brothers, who had already made their "false step" and were about to experience their judgment, leaving only a remnant (the Jewish Christians).

Romans 11 must cause you a world of headaches :D ... but if you read it without the WT blinkers and private interpretations, Paul is speaking plainly enough.

Interpretum,

Its not so plain.

have now been shown mercy because of their [Jews] disobedience, so also these now [Jews] have been disobedient.


because of Jews disobedience, so also Jews have been disobedient.

Is saying the same thing twice!

It does not make sense.

So:

If Gentles are shown mercy because of disobedient Jews.

The disobedient Jews will once again be shown mercy because the Gentiles will also be disobedient.

Making both the Jews and the Gentiles candidates for mercy.

Suggesting that the Gentiles are going to screw up big time!

Just like the Jews did!


Works for me!


I do understand why it is not a convenient explanation for the current Gentile population on this planet.


In Christ

abe

[quote=ablebodiedman]
There are a lot of they, their, you and your in this scripture which makes it hard to break down.

Who are the they, their and you and your?

One school of thought also says that the 'they' are the 'lost ten tribes' who were scattered by Assyrians towards Asia and Europe. And Paul was especially ministering to these ten lost tribe members of the Sons of Jacob who had lost themselves among the Gentiles and did not know and still do not know who they were.

This school of thought has Scriptures to back up what they assert for example eversince the exile to Babylon and the end of the Kingdom of Judah the sons of Jacob are referred to by Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the rest of the many prophets as two groups.

These are the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel, the sons of Judah are the two sons of Jacob Judah and Benjamin and the sons of Israel refers to the lost ten tribe who were collectively referred to s Ephraim.

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' there it shall be said to them, 'You are sons of the living God.'

11 Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and appoint for themselves one head; and they shall come up out of the land, for great will be the day of Jezreel!" (NKJV) (Hos. 1:2).

It says that both these houses were married to Jehovah and He was and is their husband and soon a day will come when He will collect His renegade wife Israel from all over the nations where He deliberately scattered her.

HOSEA 2:13 I will punish her for the days of the Baals to which she burned incense. She decked herself with her earrings and jewelry, and went after her lovers; but Me she forgot," says the LORD.

14 "Therefore, behold, I will allure her, will bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfort to her. 15 I will give her her vineyards from there, and the Valley of Achor as a door of hope; she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, as in the day when she came up from the land of Egypt. 16 [b]And it shall be, in that day," says the LORD, "that you will call Me 'My Husband,' and no longer call Me 'My Master,' [/b]

19 I will betroth you to Me forever; yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and justice, in lovingkindness and mercy; 20 I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness, and you shall know the LORD.

21 It shall come to pass in that day that I will answer," says the LORD; "I will answer the heavens, and they shall answer the earth.

22 The earth shall answer with grain, with new wine, and with oil; they shall answer Jezreel.

23 Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth, and I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy; then I will say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people!' and they shall say, 'You are my God!' " (NKJV)

The those who are not my people are not the Gentiles but the lost ten tribes who by that time would all have been mingled into the gentiles and thought of themselves as gentiles there is a special expression for them in Hebrew in the book of Micah and that is the same expression Paul uses in Romans when he says that the 'fullness of the Gentiles' will come in and in this way All Israel will be saved.

This all Israel is the collective 12 tribes of Israel whose gathering and directing to the physical land of Israel in the last days. This however does not mean non-Israelites gentiles are not called into the Kingdom of God, but that the prime and foremost call of Jesus Christ was and is for the natural children of Jacob all the twelve tribes.

Would you brothers & sisters discuss the possibility of this?

Farhat Zubair

fzubair,

Trying to reconcile the tribes is a very interesting exercise.

In Genesis Chapter 49 Jacob explains to his 12 sons what will happen to them in the final part of the days.

The first thing a person will try to do is reconcile the blessings with the 12 Apostles which becomes very confusing.

Then on top of those 12, Ephraim and Manasseh are mentioned throughout the bible and in the Ezekiel/Revelation list of tribes.

Perhaps they are the double portion given to Joseph?

Ephraim and Manasseh also had an Egyptian mother however they both belong to the tribe of Joseph and yet are mentioned as separate tribes in Ezekiel at the exclusion of any mention of the tribe of Joseph. 13 tribes are mentioned in Ezekiel!

The drunkards of Ephraim have crowns however, they make a covenant with death that is dissolved by Jesus Christ after he is resurrected. Because Ephraim is singled out it makes it difficult to reconcile the covenant with death having anything to do with 1st Century Jerusalem.

I have posted much information on what I think the covenant with death is.

I therefore think that Ephraim is likely the Gentiles.

It is interesting that you mention 10 lost tribes as the book of Revelation shows there are only 2 witnesses standing before the Lord and it also mention 10 kings who give away their power.

Do the 10 lost tribes mentioned in the old testament foreshadow what will happen in the final part of the days?

If you go back to Genesis Chapter 49 and read the blessings then only 2 receive an extraordinary blessing, the prospects for the other 10 don't look good.

I also think the grafting in or removing from the olive tree is something which will be fully reconciled only after the resurrection.

Immediately before the resurrection only two leaders (Gentiles) appear to be candidates for the olive tree.

Zechariah 4
What are the two bunches of twigs of the olive trees?


I believe that after the resurrection all twelve candidates will be reconciled in something Jesus Christ called the; "re-creation".


Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life.
30 “But many that are first will be last and the last first.




In Christ

abe

Well, keep in mind that there are at least TWO times when Jews "disobedience" gave opportunity to the Gentiles.

First of all, when they rejected their Messiah. Then, when they (collectively) rejected the message of the Apostles.

For the main part, they also rejected Paul. He said to the principle men of the Jews in Rome:

"The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to YOUR forefathers, saying, ‘Go to this people and say: “By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means understand; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see... // ... Therefore let it be known to YOU that this, the means by which God saves, has been sent out to the nations; they will certainly listen to it.” (Acts 28:25-28)

His repeating of "them" makes perfect sense if you understand that the Jews were disobedient more than once. It didn't stop at the death of Jesus, did it?

That is why Paul could say what he did, right at the end of the book of Acts.

fzubair,

Trying to reconcile the tribes is a very interesting exercise.

In Genesis Chapter 49 Jacob explains to his 12 sons what will happen to them in the final part of the days.

The first thing a person will try to do is reconcile the blessings with the 12 Apostles which becomes very confusing.

Then on top of those 12, Ephraim and Manasseh are mentioned throughout the bible and in the Ezekiel/Revelation list of tribes.

Perhaps they are the double portion given to Joseph?

Ephraim and Manasseh also had an Egyptian mother however they both belong to the tribe of Joseph and yet are mentioned as separate tribes in Ezekiel at the exclusion of any mention of the tribe of Joseph. 13 tribes are mentioned in Ezekiel!

The drunkards of Ephraim have crowns however, they make a covenant with death that is dissolved by Jesus Christ after he is resurrected. Because Ephraim is singled out it makes it difficult to reconcile the covenant with death having anything to do with 1st Century Jerusalem.

Dear Abe,

I am working on these Scriptures from the understanding that is also found in Romans 11 that the calling of God is irrevocable.


The 12 tribes, from the time of their wandering in the desert after leaving Egypt, were called the "children of Israel" or the "House of Israel" (Exo. 16:31; 40:38; Lev. 10:6; Num. 20:29; Jos. 21:45).

As we know later on Kingship was established in Israel and the twelve tribes were ruled by three kings one after the other, after which the nation was split into two by divine arrangement.

I KINGS 12:19, 20 So Israel has been in rebellion against the house of David to this day.

The northern kingdom was known by several names, including: Israel, the House of Israel, Samaria, Joseph, the House of Joseph, and Ephraim.


HOSEA 1:1-9
The harlot Gomer bore Hosea three children. God had Hosea name them symbolically to show how He was going to deal with the House of Israel, which had committed harlotry by worshiping strange gods.

These three children were named [b]Jezreel, Lo-Ruhamah, and Lo-Ammi.All three of these names described God's punishment on the House of Israel, as He explained to Hosea.

JEZREEL (which literally means "God sows" in Hebrew) represented God's sowing of the House of Israel among the Gentile nations of the earth after they were carried away into captivity by the Assyrians (Hos. 8:8; Zec. 10:7-10).

LO-RUHAMAH (which is Hebrew for "no mercy") indicated that God would no longer have mercy upon the House of Israel, allowing them to be taken captive because of their sins (Hos. 1:6).

The name LO-AMMI (literally "no people" in Hebrew) pictured the gradual loss of national identity by the House of Israel. They were prophesied to lose the knowledge of who they were.

Scattered throughout the nations of the world, the House of Israel forgot that they were part of the YHVH's chosen people (Hos. 1:9) and eventually came to view themselves as part of those nations where they were living. Essentially, they came to believe that they were Gentiles.

Both Jeremiah and Ezekiel describe these two nations as two sisters married to their God Jehovah both had turned unfaithful and their husband punished them, but there is always a promise attached with the chastisement that they will be gathered together and have a single leader the Messiah as their King and will be established in the physical land of their anscestors at the end of the age.

Paul specifically speaks of a blindness caused by Jehovah on the ten tribe as well as the two tribe of Judah so that they cannot see the Messiah.

He however, repeats the promise that at the time of end the deliverer the Messiah will come out of Zion and provide liberty and unification to all Israel, this all Israel is first and foremost the natural nation of Israel ocmposed of the 12 tribes of the sons of Jacob.

The two groups henceforward from the time of the first major prophets lsaiah Jeremiah is referred to as the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

continued.

Unlike Judah, the House of Israel never returned to their homeland.The Jews have always been recognized as His people for ONE reason, they have strived to keep the sign that He said would forever identify the children of Israel: the keeping of the weekly Sabbath. EXODUS 31:16
The reunion of the House of Israel and the House of Judah are frequently mentioned in the Tanakh. Some doubt that, giving examples like Ezra 4:1:

“Now when the adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the descendants of the captivity were building the temple of the LORD God of Israel” (NKJV), it is clear that the reuniting of Judah and Ephraim had not taken place.

When God divorced the House of Israel and cast them away in 722 BCE, all the children afterward born in the 10 tribes became spiritually illegitimate.

The Torah states that illegitimate children are banned from being part of the assembly ("church") of YHVH for a period of TEN generations: DEUTERONOMY 23:2 "No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the LORD; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the LORD." (NASU)

In the Bible, a generation is defined as being 70 years (Psalm 90:10).
A small number from the northern kingdom were likely assimilated into the House of Judah before and during the conquest of Samaria. But according to the Torah, no descendant of the northern kingdom of Samaria afterward would have been eligible to be part of God's people for at least 700 years after God divorced their mother, the House of Israel (Jer. 3:8).

The Bible is basically a historical document a genealogy of a single people Israel. It discusses God’s dealings past, present and future with this ethnic group (the sons of Jacob). The books of the old testament are their history.

That the world will be saved through Jews, Jesus testified to that in John 4:22

That Jesus was sent to gather the lost sheep of the house of Israel, that His brothers are the scattered and lost ten tribes members, that unification of the twelve tribes and the opening of the eyes collectively of all Israel was the purpose of the coming of Jesus , and the writing of Bible the Word of God.

The Christianized Jews of the first century kept on waiting and waiting for Jesus to materialize and establish the Kingdom of God in Palestine. Finally, they all got tired of waiting and disappeared from history hiding in nooks and corners of the European continent.

In place of God’s Kingdom arose the Roman Papal Empire, this empire knew the Scriptures and also knew the message it contained, therefore the Scriptures were stashed away in its vaults.

It had no sympathies with the Jewish people or the lost ten tribes, it had its own agenda therefore it hijacked Christianity and turned it into a man-eating T-Rex which acted as a typical beast of the books of Daniel and Revelation.

The pope could not be sympathizers of the sons of Jacob, so it began to persecute their children, through inquisitions, mass murders and unfortunately the lost ten tribes who were forced by the empire to convert to the state Christianity also did their part in this persecution, even Martin Luther is guilty of crimes against Judah.

Therefore one of the major prophets Ezekiel, wrote vividly about the eventual reconciliation of the northern and southern kingdoms: EZEKIEL 37:15-28
………………. Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. 22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.
24 My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd, 25 and David My servant shall be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore."

But we also know from the Torah that this reunion couldn't occur until at least 700 years had passed from the beginning of Ephraim's captivity. If we count forward the prescribed amount of time from the captivity of Samaria by the Assyrians, we arrive at the general time that Yeshua the Nazarene was born.

Since many Old Testament prophecies proclaim that it will be the Messiah who reconciles the two houses, it is no coincidence that Yeshua came just after the 700-year time span of Ephraim's illegitimacy was completed. However, most do not (and have not) realized that the prophesied reconciliation would be a process would continue a long time even now. Ezekiel's prophecy of the two sticks is one of the most important, and unfortunately, one of the most overlooked, prophecies in the Bible. Although it is probably the most graphic picture of the reunifying of the two houses, there are many other similar prophecies in the Tanakh.

ISAIAH 11:11 It shall come to pass in that day that the LORD shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people who are left, from Assyria and Egypt, from Pathros and Cush, from Elam and Shinar, from Hamath and the islands of the sea. 12 He will set up a banner for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13 Also the envy of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not harass Ephraim. 14 But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west; together they shall plunder the people of the East; they shall lay their hand on Edom and Moab; and the people of Ammon shall obey them. 15 The LORD will utterly destroy the tongue of the Sea of Egypt; with His mighty wind He will shake His fist over the River, and strike it in the seven streams, and make men cross over dry-shod. 16 There will be a highway for the remnant of His people who will be left from Assyria, as it was for Israel in the day that he came up from the land of Egypt. (NKJV)

ZECHARIAH 10:3 " They shall fight because the LORD is with them, and the riders on horses shall be put to shame. 6 I will strengthen the House of Judah, and I will save the House of Joseph. I will bring them back, because I have mercy on them. They shall be as though I had not cast them aside; for I am the LORD their God, and I will hear them. 7 Those of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as if with wine. Yes, their children shall see it and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD. 8 I will whistle for them and gather them, for I will redeem them; and they shall increase as they once increased. 9 I will sow them among the peoples, and they shall remember Me in far countries; they shall live, together with their children, and they shall return. 10 I will also bring them back from the land of Egypt, and gather them from Assyria. I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon, until no more room is found for them. 11 He shall pass through the sea with affliction, and strike the waves of the sea: all the depths of the River shall dry up. Then the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the scepter of Egypt shall depart. 12 So I will strengthen them in the LORD, and they shall walk up and down in His name," says the LORD. (NKJV)

JEREMIAH 23:3 But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. 4 I will set up shepherds over them who will feed them; and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, nor shall they be lacking," says the LORD. 5 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "that I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
JEREMIAH 50: 3 For out of the north a nation comes up against her, which shall make her land desolate, and no one shall dwell therein. They shall move, they shall depart, both man and beast. 4 In those days and in that time," says the LORD, "the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together; with continual weeping they shall come, and seek the LORD their God. 5 They shall ask the way to Zion, with their faces toward it, saying, 'Come and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that will not be forgotten.' " (NKJV)

These prophecies are for the end of the age, the time when the Messiah returns from heaven and establishes the Kingdom of God here on earth. The old testament is very clear on this Jerusalem is earthly and for the sons of Israel the Kingdom of God is earthly too. As for the so called ‘Israel of God’ be that may if they are destined for a transfer to heaven.

fzubair,

Very interesting stuff!

Thanks for posting.

I get a great deal of comfort finding out that other people can see that iterations of Christianity are the wild beasts of Daniel and Revelation.

It is still very difficult for me to reconcile all of this however, please see the enormous similarities to the last wild beast of Danial Ch 7 and what Micah says about the sons of Jacob:

Micah 3
1 And I proceeded to say: “Hear, please, YOU heads of Jacob and YOU commanders of the house of Israel. Is it not YOUR business to know justice? 2 YOU haters of what is good and lovers of badness, tearing off their skin from people and their organism from off their bones; 3 YOU the ones who have also eaten the organism of my people, and have stripped their very skin from off them, and smashed to pieces their very bones, and crushed [them] to pieces like what is in a widemouthed pot and like flesh in the midst of a cooking pot. 4 At that time they will call to Jehovah for aid, but he will not answer them. And he will conceal his face from them in that time, according as they committed badness in their dealings 5 “This is what Jehovah has said against the prophets that are causing my people to wander, that are biting with their teeth


Genesis chapter 49 clearly states that the 12 sons of Jacob will have a role to play in the final part of the days:

Genesis 49
1 Later on Jacob called his sons and said: “Gather yourselves together that I may tell YOU what will happen to YOU in the final part of the days. 2 Assemble yourselves and listen, YOU sons of Jacob, yes, listen to Israel YOUR father.

Notice however, in the scripture you posted that only two of the sons mentioned in Genesis Chapter 49 are not cast off.

ZECHARIAH 10:3
" They shall fight because the LORD is with them, and the riders on horses shall be put to shame. 6 I will strengthen the House of Judah, and I will save the House of Joseph. I will bring them back, because I have mercy on them. They shall be as though I had not cast them aside;

So what happens to the other 10 sons of Jacob?

Keeping in mind that Ephraim and Manasseh (Josephs sons) are mentioned among the tribes in the last chapter of Ezekiel and yet are not mentioned in Genesis Chapter 49.


Also the wild beast of Daniel Ch 7 and Revelation has 10 horns, kings.

and

Revelation Chapter 11 says that only 2 are standing before the lord.

In order to understand who finally gets grafted in or remains in the olive tree, this all has to be reconciled.


In Christ

abe

fzubair,

In regard to Ephraim these scriptures are interesting to contemplate:


Hosea 9
8 The watchman of E´phra·im was with my God. As regards a prophet, there is the trap of a birdcatcher on all his ways; there is an animosity in the house of his God. 9 They have gone down deep in bringing ruin, as in the days of Gib´e·ah. He will remember their error; he will give attention to their sins. 10 “Like grapes in the wilderness I found Israel. Like the early fig on a fig tree in its beginning I saw the forefathers of YOU people.

John 10:2
2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.

Compare to Micah:


Micah 2
12 “‘I shall positively gather Jacob, all of you; I shall without fail collect the remaining ones of Israel together. In unity I shall set them, like a flock in the pen, like a drove in the midst of its pasture; they will be noisy with men.’
13 “The one making a breakthrough will certainly come up before them: they will actually break through. And they will pass through a gate, and they will go out by it. And their king will pass through before them, with Jehovah at the head of them.”


Immediately after this Micah describes the sons of Jacob in a way which seems very much like the wild beast in Daniel Chapter 7.

If the righteous sons of Jacob and their tribes are being led out of the city then I believe they must now be in the wilderness.

What happens when they are all led out into the wilderness?

When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them


I started a thread to consider what happens next in the wilderness:

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=6153


In Christ

abe