Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hello Everyone :)

As many of you know, I don't believe that we have the 100 percent inspired "Word of God" in our Bibles today, after JUST a few thousand revisions, interpolations, mistranslations, etc.... :thinking:

...however, :D I DO believe that infinite treasures can still be found within its pages, and that it is entirely and miraculously the "Book of Life", if you open it with the right "key" (everyone who loves the Bible KNOWS that, don't they?) :read:

One of those occasions where I believe the truth escaped the pen of the lying scribes at Nicea is at Matthew 6:22. Since most of us have been affiliated with The CULT :D, we have been reading the Cult Bible, designed to keep its readers FAST ASLEEP :sleepy: There we read:

“The lamp of the body is the eye. If, then, your eye is simple, your whole body will be bright." (NWT)

The word "simple" is accompanied by a footnote that says:

"Or, 'sincere; all one way; in focus; generous.'”

Nice try, but I will attempt to demonstrate that this is nothing short of the usual "artfully contrived" Botchtower nonsense.

The KJV says:

"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light."

Now, there IS a clue in the next verse that sheds light on what Jesus meant, where he says:

23 "But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"

Interesting that Jesus is using the word "evil" ("wicked", according to the NWT, I'm ok with that :ok:) as an opposite to "single" in the previous verse.

Is this a clue that Jesus meant that if our right eye is making us stumble, we should literally pluck it out? :shocked:

No, it is not :)

The Greek word translated as "simple" by the PhariseeTower is:

G573
ἁπλοῦς
haplous
hap-looce'
Probably from G1 (as a particle of union) and the base of G4120; properly folded together, that is, single (figuratively clear): - single.

Now let's look at the base word from which it is derived:

G4120
πλέκω
plekō
plek'-o
A primary word; to twine or braid: - plait.

If Jesus had meant to say "clear", he would have used this word:

katharos kath-ar-os' of uncertain affinity; clean (literally or figuratively):--clean, clear, pure.

If Jesus meant "simple", he would have said:

akakos ak'-ak-os from 1 (as a negative particle) and 2556; not bad, i.e. (objectively) innocent or (subjectively) unsuspecting:--harmless, simple.

OR

akeraios ak-er'-ah-yos from 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of 2767; unmixed, i.e. (figuratively) innocent:--harmless, simple.

"Sincere" would be:

adolos ad'-ol-os from 1 (as a negative particle}; and 1388; undeceitful, i.e. (figuratively) unadulterated:--sincere.

Or,

anupokritos an-oo-pok'-ree-tos from 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of 5271; undissembled, i.e. sincere:--without dissimulation (hypocrisy), unfeigned.

Or,

eilikrines i-lik-ree-nace' from heile (the sun's ray) and 2919; judged by sunlight, i.e. tested as genuine (figuratively):--pure, sincere.

"Generous" would be:

eugenes yoog-en'-ace from 2095 and 1096; well born, i.e. (literally) high in rank, or (figuratively) generous:--more noble, nobleman.

So much for the "Faithful Slave" rendition...:readthis:

Now my question is, based on the above information, what do YOU derive from this statement of our Lord and Master?

Looking forward to your input!

Love and Peace!
Jimmy C.

Here are the verses from the few translations that I like:

"The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, abut if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" - Matthew 5:22-23 ESV

"The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" - Matthew 5:22-23 NASB

"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!" - Matthew 5:22-23 TNIV

"The eye is the lamp of the body. If then your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is diseased, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" - Matthew 5:22-23 NET

Here's my take on it:

The eye could be similar to the “heart” in Jewish literature. It is a lamp that reveals the quality of a person's inner life. A healthy eye (clear vision) suggests loyal devotion to God, while a bad eye (impaired vision) connotes moral corruption.

Matt

Thanks Matt! I really appreciate your input!

I like the idea and the thought behind this, but I'm looking to nail a specific meaning to this one. I think that if Jesus meant a "healthy" eye, he would have said:

5199. hugies hoog-ee-ace' from the base of 837; healthy, i.e. well (in body); figuratively, true (in doctrine):--sound, whole.

And as I pointed out before, if Jesus meant simply "clear" vision, he would have used the word for "clear". :D

Love and Peace,
Jimmy C.

You were using Strong's I take it?

Here is the definition from Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament which I like better then Strong's.

ἁπλοῦς
haplous
Adjective

1. simple, single
2. whole
3. good fulfilling its office, sound
3a. of the eye

KJV (2) - single, 2;

NAS (2) - clear, 2;

So according to Thayer's it would seem that simple, single, whole, or sound are possible translations.

#3 carries the meaning that we want, "if the eye fulfills its office" or perhaps "if the eye does it's job". Perhaps the translation of "healthy" or "clear" is an attempt to make this more plain without the use of many words. Also, it just occurred to me that the phrase "if your eye is haplous" could be a Jewish idiom referring to a healthy eye with clear vision. If this is so, that would explain why many translations render it "healthy". They would be telling us what the idiom means instead of translating it literally.

Also we can't divorce this verse from it's immediate context.

"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness! No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money." - Matthew 6:19-24 ESV

Perhaps my initial assessment was wrong. I read the verses before and after. Notice that the verses before and after are about money and our relationship to it. So it is obvious that Jesus is using the eye illustration to make some point about our use of and relation to money.

The question is what is Jesus trying to tell us about Money and how does "haplous" figure into this?

Matt

I don't get it. I thought you guys had nailed it - that if your eye is not simple, or your mind is not focused, you will be wicked. There is also the saying 'if a man put his hand to the plough but keeps looking behind'.

Is there an extra something there?

Yeah, I think that the context indicates that Jesus has a specific focus in this parable of the eye. This focus seems to be something about the Christians and their use of and relation to money. So somehow this little parable about the eye has something specifically to do with money.

Grace and peace,

Matt

In Judaism, having an 'ayin ra'ah - an "evil eye" means to be stingy, or mean with money, and having an ayim tovah - a "good eye" is to be generous. They're really run-of-the-mill figures of speech you'll find in any Jewish community. like saying to an english person "you look like you've been sucking lemons" means you look miserable, no-one thinks they've got lemon-juice around their mouths, or "its raining cats and dogs" doesn't have anything to do with animals.

Jesus was Jewish, and so was his audience.

Jimmy,

I think single and simple are both good ways to look at it.


A person with a single, simple eye is straightforward.

His yes means yes, and his no means no.

There is no duplicity.

He does not play the game of "bait and switch" for his own selfish interest.

When he asks a question, he simply wants the answer, he has no ulterior motive unless the answer is so obvious that it becomes a (rhetorical) statement instead.

When he buys a car, it is to get him from A to B, it's not to impress his friends and neighbors.

When he works, it is to buy food and clothing and perhaps a little left over which he can use for hospitality and not for storing up riches for his own future.

When he says; "Hello, how are you?" it is because he wants to know how you are.

When you pass him on the street, and he looks you in the eye, it is because he wants to see you.


In Christ

abe

If it is true that a focus on money and a tendency towards stinginess is what is going on here, Jesus' feelings about it are extremely negative.

"The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" - Matthew 5:22-23 NASB

Genesis 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” -KJV

Peace & Awakenings!
Jimmy C.

Hi guys,

I love the Message Bible for its no-nonsense interpretation of scripture. I believe it is not the best when you really need an accurate literal translation. But take a look at this:

"Don't hoard treasure down here where it gets eaten by moths and corroded by rust or--worse!--stolen by burglars. Stockpile treasure in heaven, where it's safe from moth and rust and burglars. It's obvious, isn't it? The place where your treasure is, is the place you will most want to be, and end up being. "Your eyes are windows into your body. If you open your eyes wide in wonder and belief, your body fills up with light. If you live squinty-eyed in greed and distrust, your body is a dank cellar. If you pull the blinds on your windows, what a dark life you will have! Matt 6:19-23

Now I can't say how accurate the translation is, but it does seem to be talking about treasures in heaven and hopeful thoughts as opposed to narrow-mindedness and worldly values.

Regards,
Brendan.