Paradise Café Discussions A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi everyone, Jem here.

I am looking forward to talking and debating with you all. I love the Bible and love talking about God and his purposes for the earth and the people on it.

I will read a while and get to know how the site works and who the posters are.

Love the smileys!!

Look forward to meeting you all.

Agape, Jem

Hey Jemima!!


Hows it going mate?


Im a Kiwi, living in Australia - Melbourne, to be exact. There are a couple of other aussies on here too....good to see you, and hopefully your stay here will be fruitful and enjoyable!

I dont know where you are in Australia, but down here in Melbourne, it is blemin' cold!!!! I cant wait for summer to come back....although...could always do a trip up to the Gold Coast!...gotta love Australia!!


Cheers mate!

your friend and brother, Beau!

Welcome Jemima.

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

G'day to you too, Jem.

I'm from Nova Scotia, Canada myself but my dad was born in Sydney. I think he may have stuck me with a faint Australian accent, eh?

Hope you enjoy our little cafe. Lookin' forward to reading your posts.

love,
Rez

Thanks guys...I'm feelin at home already.

Still feeling my way a bit.

I have to warn you, I am not an orthodox believer and have been booted off a few forums because "you can't say that here".

I was born and raised in the Anglican Church, but nothing made sense to me. I am one who needs proof from the word of God for my beliefs and the church failed me miserably on that score...too many "mysteries."

I have to tell you right off the bat that I have investigated many churches in my life and pretty much found them all to be generics of the mother church. (there are a few odd exceptions) They all generally have one set of core beliefs in common...which happen to be the ones I cannot swallow.

I always knew I would know the truth when I heard it and that it would not need credulity on my part to accept it. It would be stated clearly in the word of God...it would be logical (I am a logic freak ) and it would strike a chord within me that would ring bells.

I had studied enough of the Bible to know that Christians would not be liked much. In fact, Jesus said they would be 'hated and persecuted'. The churches do nothing for which to be hated....unless it's for child abuse, love of money or meddling in politics. (taking sides) Aren't we supposed to be NO part of the world?

And Christians would not be involved in bloodshed by participating in the wars of the nations. In the two world wars, Christian fought Christian...that is something that is in direct violation of 1 John 4:20, 21.
The other 'identifier' to me was that they would be preachers, not just in one geographical location, but "in all the inhabited earth" (Matt 24:14)

So I was looking for the Christians who matched the criteria.
It took me a while but I found them. Guess who?

So, anyhow, that's the perspective I will be coming from....no offence intended to anyone, I will just try and speak the truth as I see it, but respect that my truth may not be your truth.

I'll keep reading a while till I get a feel for the place.

You all seem a nice bunch.

Talk later,

Jem

Greetings and welcome Jemima



Christian love,

gogh

G'day Jemima,

Good to have you here...an Aussie 'sheila'.

Just reading through your introduction, that you are a 'logic freak'. Don't forget the emotions that are equally as powerful. Quite a struggle can occur between the brain - logic - and our heart

Enjoy yourself here at the Cafe.


Tessa

(Another Melbournite outer South East)

Hi Tessa. Nice to meet a fellow Aussie.

I don't go for the emotional stuff really. I see some getting all carried away with emotion...tears and outbursts...clapping of hands and expletives, but their faith has little to do with knowledge. Emotions can blind people to the truth. Appealing to the emotions is ok up to a point, (as Jesus illustrated in his teachings) but that's not what he said would gain us life. We actually need to be careful of that 'treacherous' heart. (Jer 17:9, 10)

Jesus said " This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you the only true God and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3) He didn't say one gained everlasting life solely on the basis of what one 'feels'.

Knowledge is the thing that allows us to evaluate what we take in from God's word; we meditate on it and analyse how we feel about what it says.
The first 'port of call' is the mind, then it gets down to the heart and then we are motivated to act.

Those who only take emotions into consideration are wide open to manipulation. Without logic, the heart can run away, without heart, we cannot feel the love of God...so both are important. But Jesus said 'knowledge' leads to life.

Hi Jemima!

Welcome!

About that scripture, I would try reading it from a REAL Bible, the message is totally different. You get much closer to the truth when you ditch the NWT. Knowledge from a book is one thing, knowledge from experience is another thing entirely. The last thing the Watchtower wants for their army of sub-slaves.

Peace,
Jimmy C.

Thanks for presenting some accuracy Prod.

John 17:3...

" And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ."

Coming to know and knowing our Father through Jesus Christ our Lord is by far more important than a knowledge based view. (A mistake of religion to emphasis written code/knowledge to gain "favour" of our Lord.) The religious leaders of our Shepherds day were full of knowledge/accurate knowledge....where did it get them from Jesus point of view?

I find it beneficial to reference the Orgs. very own (printed by the Watchtower Bible @ Tract Society) Interlinear, which often clarifies when/where the NW Translation has added word(s) or changed phrases that alter meaning......thus inhibiting taking in knowledge...grin.

Christian love,

gogh

I see a lot of people getting all hung up on the "organization" thing. What's with that? Anyone would think God never used an organized people in the history of the world!

Jehovah is a God of order. He has never not had an organized people.
Were all of the people within that organized body somehow free from faults and imperfection? Did God make known to them that they were not doing the right thing through his word and his representatives? What happened to those who could not be corrected? They were removed!

I know what credentials Christians are expected to have....and it doesn't mean "belonging to an organization". It means belonging to God as a baptized disciple of his son. It means following through on all the commands Jesus gave.....which includes "preaching the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth, for a witness to all the nations." (Matt 24:14)
Jesus and his apostles demonstrated how that preaching was to be done. They went "house to house", "searching out" "deserving ones", 'teaching them and baptizing them.'(Acts 5:42, 20:20; Matt. 10:11; 28:19, 20)

God knows who belongs to him, regardless of what label they are wearing. (2 Tim. 2:19)
In Rev 18:4, God commanded his "people" to get out of "Babylon the Great". In order to "get out", these ones had to be IN the organizations represented by "the Harlot." If you can't identify "Babylon the Great", then you can't do what God tells his "people" to do.
All who are still IN Babylon the Great will "share with her in her sins and receive part of her plagues". God's words, not mine.

Obedient ones have responded and have recognised the activities of the 'harlot' for what they are and have removed themselves. God would not tell his people to get out of one "organization" unless he had somewhere for them to go. His "people" today are organized as they always have been, but simply belonging to an organization is not the way to salvation. We each have to "carry our own load" of responsibility.
Each will render an individual accounting of himself to God. (Rom 14:12)

There is only ONE road to life and "few" are on it. (Matt 7:13, 14)
There are "many" on the other road but they do not know where they are headed. Why? Because they want to worship God THEIR way. Their hearts are not inclined towards obedience at all. So God will allow these ones to go on in a wrong course....because they like it that way. (2 Thess. 2:9-12) These are the ones Jesus will reject on the day he comes to judge the "sheep and the goats."
They protest, claiming Jesus as their "Lord", enumerating all the things they did "in his name", yet he tells them, "I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness." (Matt 7:21-23)

I go on the evidence not hearsay. The evidence is clear to me. There is no other world-wide brotherhood preaching the good news in all the earth as one united body of Christians. They truly love their brothers and will not tolerate dissenters among their ranks who will destroy that unity. These dissenters sometimes band together and form what the Bible calls "the evil slave" who cannot please the Master, so they go and beat up on their former brothers. (Matthew 24:48-51)

Nothing changes. This has been going on since the days of the apostles, when Jesus said the the "weeds" of false Christianity would be sown.

The 'wheat' and the 'weeds' have 'grown together' and now it is time for the 'harvest'. The "wheat" is clearly distinguishable from the "weeds". There is no similarity any more.

Sorry, I did not mean to post this lengthy response here as it is not the correct thread, but you get my drift.

Jem

P.S. for those who want to pull the "real Bible" card. Show me any Bible and I can teach you the truth, just as anyone can teach falsehood from the very same book. It is not the translation that makes the difference, it is the heart condition of the one reading it that matters.

I came to a knowledge of the truth with the KJV.

Howdy Jem

Re: "I came to a knowledge of the truth with the KJV."

Would your reference to "the truth" happen to be reference to our Lord Jesus? ("I am the way, the truth....."). Somehow, I think not. May I presume you are referencing "the Truth" as...???what???...grin.

Re: "...It means following through on all the commands Jesus gave."

One of Jesus commands is..."Keep doing this in remembrance of me" (Luke 22:19...). Do you feel,Jem, that all followers of our Lord Jesus should keep this command.? While focusing on the word "keep", may I explain, please, that, imo, most here take seriously this scripture:

"...Keep on asking, and it will be given YOU; keep on seeking, and YOU will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to YOU.  For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking it will be opened." ( Luke 11:9...)

I have learned much and have enjoyed the association of many here...asking, seeking and knocking with fellow, like minded, hearts. Please enjoy your participation here Jem.

Christian love,

gogh

I notice that you don't use the smileys gogh, they are so much nicer than words. IMO

"The truth" is indeed the truth of God's word".

Emphasising the word "keep" is ok, but how about asking to whom were the words addressed? Those who were taken into "the covenant for a kingdom" were told that they would eat and drink with Christ in his kingdom. These "chosen ones" are to be "joint heirs" with Christ. (Rom 8:17) Rev 20 :6 says that they are to be "kings and priests" and will reign with Christ for the thousand years of kingdom rule. As these ones alone are parties to the covenant, to rule with Christ in his kingdom, they are "first" to be chosen, "first" to be invited and "first" to be resurrected. They are to live a life like Christ's and die a death like his. (1 Peter 3:18) Their partaking of the emblems representing Christ's flesh and blood are confirmation of their choosing for this role.

There are two groups seen attributing salvation to God and the Lamb. One smaller group who are numbered are sealed first and another much larger, unnumbered group who are seen coming out of the great tribulation, which occurs on earth. (Rev 7:4, 9, 10, 14-17; Matt 24:21, 22)

If the first group are to be kings...then, over whom shall they reign? And if they are to be priests, then for who do they perform their priestly duties?
How does Rev 21:3, 4 fit the idea that all Christians are going to heaven? If they are all chiefs and no Indians, what is the point?

Who is "everyone" mentioned here? And how does that fit with those mentioned in Matt 7:21-23? Did these ones "knock and seek"? They claimed Jesus as their "Lord"; to perform even "powerful works" in Jesus name. If they suffered rejection and the door was closed to them, what did they do wrong?

Thank you gogh. I have a very clear view of what the scriptures say determined by many years of study. Like I said I was born and raised in Christendom. I see the view of others quite clearly because I was once on their side of the fence. I know how Christendom was formed. I know what it teaches and I know where these beliefs originated.

History has so much to teach us because as you know...it has a habit of repeating. Are we alert to the lessons? Or are we doomed to repeat the mistakes?

I look forward to discussion, but will not participate in fruitless debates over trivial issues. There are those here I see who have an agenda and I am not interested in furthering their cause. I will speak truth and I will discuss issues. I will not debate with those whose only agenda is to cause friction or to downgrade anyone personally.

Jemima,


Yep, I'm really hung up about the "organization" thing.

I was disfellowshipped because I fully agree with this Watchtower magazine!

Excluded by my own brothers who hate me, persecute me, reproach me and lyingly say wicked things about me because I want to obey and take a stand for Jesus Christ and his commandments.

The hour has come:

John 16:1
“I have spoken these things to YOU that YOU may not be stumbled. 2 Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.



In Christ

abe