Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Concerning recent posts...(sorry this is so long, but it's so important).(Also, please note that I'm not singling any certain person out as this is for all of us). With love.

We disagree with certain people. Some believe in Jesus being the only truth, some believe you have to be a JW to have truth. Some in the trinity, others in Jesus the Son and God the Father. Some in all "one flock, one shepherd", others in two flocks, I guess.

Whatever the differences are we feel that we have to defend what is right to us. We all think we are basically right, even if we admit that we can be wrong and change. We all think we're standing up for God and Jesus.

I don't know about everybody, but there comes a point in a discussion, where we have to leave it behind before it turns into an arguement. Jesus told the truth and whoever wanted to listen, listened. Whoever didn't, didn't. Sometimes he seemed harsh. But he wasn't abusive. The truth can hurt, but the truth should come in a loving way. Love isn't puffed up, it builds up. Love doesn't brag. Are we? Love doesn't become provoked. Do we?

It's not what we say, so much as it's how we say it. Say everything with peace and love, not with a "I'll show them" or a "I've got one better" attitude. It's not about how clever we can be, and I know we can really think up some great comebacks. It's about love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. If you aren't displaying these fruits, do you really have the spirit? Jesus displayed these fruits in much worse circimstances than we ever have to. While he was hanging up, slowly dying, in excruciating pain, he displayed EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE FRUITS. Shouldn't we be able to do the same under FAR less upsetting circumstances?

It's one thing to boast in Jesus and God, but it's another to brag or be haughty. Love moves us to show our love for our Father, but it doesn't provoke us to argue. Love hopes for the best. Love rejoices in the good and doesn't look for and attack the bad. Love doesn't fail. God loved and gave his Son to die. And still, many didn't believe. But God didn't fail.

Do we think that we will fail if we don't keep arguing for God? All we can do is talk lovingly, without sarcasm, without demeaning people, and let them know what we are standing up for and why we're standing up for it. Arguing doesn't win people over. Love does. And not just love for God and Jesus. But love for the person we're trying to help. Jesus didn't and won't win them all, neither will we. But that doesn't mean we should be less loving to the ones who don't agree with us.

We don't need to belittle people, even if we are right.;)

I read some of the comments and this is what I see.:argue: I can just imagine people at their homes, actually getting mad and the hearts beating fasterwith anger. It IS NOT building up. It it hurting their relationship with God and they are hurting not only their own relationship, but by inciting the other person to argue back, we are also hurting the other persons relationship with God too. We are then guilty of causing division. With eachother and with God.

No one here wants to do that. All of us want to have a strong relationship with God and His Son. We can have that and still discuss what we believe. But when someone starts arguing with us, we have to be peaceable. Even if they're wrong and they started it. Turn the other cheek. If it turns into an argument, neither person can win.

Because arguing isn't loving.

And only LOVE never fails.

Please, everyone, consider this, prayerfully, before we tear down everything that Jesus suffered for.

Before we tear down Jesus.:cry:

You are so right,

I hope I never seems like this, if a topic really bothers me I try to say nothing....

We are learning....we are learning how to listen and follow and feed from the scriptures for ourselves....now add to that, learning how to deal with differences when we come from a place that trained us to all be the same....

Digging ;)

Hi Nami,

What a thoughtful post.  

Many people who have been hurt may find it hard to work through their pain, and move on as quickly as others.  Still this does not mean they should be dogmatic in their views or hard hearted.  This is a choice and not loving as you say and certainly not the way Jehovah and Jesus conduct themselves.

Some folks just have a very argumentative personaltiy  for whatever it is they  have had to try to process  and perhaps have not worked through all it is they are feeling.  Everyone is not on the same page, which causes friction from time to time.

It is good though to step back from time to time to make sure our thoughts are in line with Jehovah's and his son.

There are always going to be those who chose to be shocking, blunt, abrasive and just TELL IT AS THEY THINK IT SHOULD BE TOLD.   I would not worry too much about it (just my opinion)  

What I do, is I step back, observe and listen.  If things continue to stay ugly, I keep them all in prayer and move on.  I choose to have peace and make peace.  

It took me a long time to work through my spiritual and personal issues, and many here helped me and listened to me.   So I try to be understanding and loving, but when folks are just plain not nice, I distance myself for awhile, if things do not change or improve I move on, perhaps checking in on them from time to time to see who may need love and encouragement.    

The main point is we are living in critical times and we need the love and encouragement of each other.  We need to hold and build each other up, some things are just not necessary even though we may have the right to express these issues.  The question I always ask is will this build up my family or tear it down, is it loving and is it necessary.

I certainly do not think I am anyone - just a person who has suffered a great deal of pain and have received lots of help from everyone and want to give the help back.  I stay out of topics that cause me stress.  I have always felt that some folks know exactly why they do what they do and enjoy doing it, others are just being led about by their pain and past issues.  Been there done all of that.  

May love always be the reason we do and say things and our love for our heavenly father and his son.

I enjoyed your post Nami.

Love out to everyone on this board.

E & E

Ephesians 4:2 with complete lowliness of mind and mildness, with long suffering, putting up with one another IN LOVE.

Colossians 4:6
1John 4:8

:hibye:

Hi, nami! :hibye: What a beautiful post! Thanks for the timely reminders. As you say, it really is all about the fruitage of the holy spirit, -- of which you clearly give evidence, -- and whether we manifest it in our own lives. If we do, it will come beaming through in the words and thoughts we type. Thanks for such a great post.

your friend and brother, ... isomam

Thank you for the beautiful post, Nami. We should all be mindful of how we say or write things and how these things come across. If a post comes across as sarcastic, hurtful or downright mean and offensive, the readers will not react to the message behind it but to the feelings such hurtful words cause. We should also refrain from name-calling.

Love to you all.. Salam, sis Lou:hibye:

:clap: Hey Nami!! :clap:

Hows it going Sister? Thank you very much for your post today! (tonight?). I count myself as one of the 'argumentative ones'. I have been acting rather self righteously over the last few months (maybe longer -- :dontknow:), so I thank you for what I perceive to be a message prompted, by not only what you have perceived, but also, what our Father has moved you to do!

Thanks Sis Nami! It takes guts to write posts like these -- and it takes a Life Force, that resonates with the Spirit to do so, as well! May you be blessed!! May you feel Loved!!

May LOVE be with you!!

your bro -- beau! :friends::friends::friends:

Hello my bold Sister...

Thank you for your loving post.. Sometimes we need reminded that we are a family and need to display understanding and love.  

It is easy to type words that we would not personally say to another person.  Sometimes this is good, as it allows us to open up and share some of our deeper emotions.  Other times, it is an outlet for anger or harshness.  As we all grow in Christ we learn how to display love, real love, without all the "fleshly" attachments.

Christ showed us many types of love, one such kind was boldness, and bluntness.  If these qualties are tempered with love, they can be very effective.  It is always important to run our words through a "love filter" to see if we are perhaps being overly critical.  For I think it is all of our goal to be more like our savior.

Love to all
Lynn

"And the Lord’s slave must not engage in heated disputes but be kind toward all, an apt teacher, patient," - 2 Timothy 2:24

Powerful words that don't leave a lot of wiggle-room; but, prove difficult to live by at times.

"You have heard that it was said `Eye for eye and tooth for tooth´ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well." Matthew 5; 38-41

AR

Happy are the peacemakers as they will be called the sons of God. Matt. 5:9

Excellent advice! :thumbsup:

I know how easy it is to get carried away with something we believe strongly in, and I agree, we need to think before we type, not always easy to do, but something we "should" do! :hug:

Take care.

Andy

Dear nami

Thank you so much for your presentation.

Re: "All we can do is talk lovingly, without sarcasm, without demeaning people, and let them know what we are standing up for and why we're standing up for it."

The way we present our ideas, questions and comments is very important. There is always room for appropriate lightheartedness/spontaneity etc.,imo; yet when being facetious or humorous, etc.,balance must be employed. Cultures vary, so we cannot assume everyone 'gets' our meaning when trying to make a statement employing.....sarcasm, for example. In particular, with regard to sarcasm (to many,unacceptable most of the time), I find myself having to stop myself from following/falling into a similar pattern of expression. It can be like poison/be contagious and is ,imo, one of the first causes of upset and hurt feelings..(I know, because I have upset other using this...although unintentionally..sorry sad face.).

Colossians 4:6...

"Let YOUR utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned with salt, so as to know how YOU ought to give an answer to each one."

Christian love to seekers of/for truth, lovers of YHWH our Lord Jesus...the Way, the Truth, the Life.

gogh

Dear Nami,
I agree with you, and particularly on some forums, there is hurtful dialogue and utterances that are not at all 'seasoned with salt'.

I have a habit of asking questions to get at the core ideas that are presented.  Some find this off putting, but if we present a concept or an understanding of scripture we may well be questioned about it. How else can we searchers for truth get at the kernel that reside in our fellow believers scriptural thoughts we may not understand? However, we still should love them as Christ does and treat them with respect.

I guess there is a subtle difference between discussion and argument?
I find using wit and sarcasm a problem at times, as brother gogh said, I think, it depends very much on our background culture. We males in the North of England have always used a lot of banter...it sometimes sounds harsh....but beneath the words it displays affinity and affection between people.

Regarding our atitude to each other: Until we know otherwise, I think we should accept all Christians we meet on the net as our Christian brothers and sisters, but at the same time be cautious yet innocent.  

I hope and pray all the ones I have met love God the Father and look to Jesus as Lord, Saviour and friend. I find the vast majority are fine and sincere believers even if they have as many 'bees in the bonnet' as I have!

At the side of the centrality of Love of God and fellowman and the role of the Lord Jesus Christ in our lives, many other things mentioned on forums pale into insignificance by comparison. We should all recognise what we say may not be the ultimate truth of YHWH but interesting thoughts on scripture we personally may have.:D
Warm Christian love
Christ's peace to you and all
Derek

Amen to all the thoughts,

Just to point out.  if we are aware of it we are capable of working on it..

So thanks,,

Also as has been pointed out,, For some it is not really an argument it is more of their way of expression.  we cannot trully know who or what is on the other side of the keyboard..
I personally tend not to take things to heart. and try to see as much of ones personality thru written word as is possible.

This will allow us to write to each one in a diff manner..  Just as when people are face to face.. you know who you have alittle tension with and who you can joke with..
Culture/geographic areas have as much to do with this as beliefs and upbringing..

Peace to u all