Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

It seems they have reverted to the old doctrin most of us grew up with, except with a twist. The twist being, that insted of the generation (singular) alive in 1914 who 'saw and understood that Jesus is near at the door", it's that that generation will OVERLAP with the generation alive at the end. (2 generations, plural)
In their attempt to redefine what "generation" means, they come up with this;
"“generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period;"
This, of course, is their own definition!
Taken at that, if a "anointed" person was 20 years old in 1914, and lived to be 100, he would die in 2014. An "anointed" person who is 20 years old in 2014, overlapping with the older generation, and lives to be 100, would die by 2094.
That friends, would be the latest date that the Great tribulation could happen.......................:thinking:...:huh:

I can't help but wonder what I would be thinking about this "new light" if I myself were still a believing Jehovah's Witness.

Would this have opened my eyes?

If I hadn't found out about the NGO thing, would this have been it?

This is such a leap from what I was taught when I was younger...and so many left when they had their last "great leap"....how did they perform their "damage control" this time?

Dear Melancholymuse

It seems to be the same pattern as in every Cult. The Watchtower Society use the same techniques as in Mind Control and the Rank & Files behaviour, are like every other cult member.

That is why they have 5 meetings in a week, where they have their Watchtower, Awake and other huge amount of Magazines as blinkers, as recommended to have them at the table in the bed room too :cry:

One of the best examples is Jim Jones, he was succesfully in his use of Mind Control, conviencing normally loving parrents to give themselves and their children poisen, whith the tragically result that apox. 950 persons committed suicide.

Members of The Watchtower Society do ecactly the same, where parrents send themselves and their children, into a premature death, in question of their ban on vaccinations, organs and the blood, opposite having a free choise to chose medical treatments where help was at hand.

I have found this article and maybe you can understand now why and recognize The Watchtowers repeated indoctrination processes inserted, in the example given and it can give you a little idea of how dangerous Mind Control is and belonging to a cult.

From Dissociation: Clinical and Theoretical Perspectives. Lynn, SJ and Rhue JW, eds. ©1994 The Guilford Press. Reprinted with permission.

http://earthops.org/cult/dissociation1.html

A totalist cult is defined as follows: "Cult (totalist type): a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing, and employing unethical, manipulative or coercive techniques of persuasion and control:

E.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressure, information management, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, suspension of individuality and critical judgment, and so on, designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders, to the possible or actual detriment of members, their families, or the community."

The basis for this definition, and a general discussion of the cult problem, is given elsewhere (West, 1983). Among various totalist cults, there may be some differences as to how intense the persuasive activities are, and in the degree to which recruits can be separated from their previous social networks. Even though he may have been attracted to the cult by elaborate and deceptive recruiting techniques, the neophyte cultist enters it "voluntarily." With rare exceptions, nobody puts a gun to his head. Yet, successful indoctrination of a cult member often includes many elements similar to the political indoctrination by such groups as the Chinese communists, which Schein (1961) described as coercive persuasion. In cults, as in the Chinese "brainwashing," "thought reform," or "coercive persuasion," people are often encouraged to criticize themselves in small-group confessionals as a means of strengthening their dependence on the group. As the process continues, members are systematically trained to relinquish independent action and thought, since only obedient behaviors and passive attitudes are rewarded, while resistance or self-assertion is punished.


Dear e-magine

Yes the history force The Watchtower Society to change their false Generation doctrine, in opposition to what Jesus stated in Matthew chapter 24 verse 36 and I really like and to show what Propmin posted in another thread "to better understand" their falsehood and predictions about the last days. :D

So when it comes to people who actually will be living in 2035 or 2095, whatsoever, they will prove you wrong about their false 1914 Generation doctrine, with reference to the latest Watchtower Magazine from April 15, 2010, as they have done so many times before in their litterature.

Instead they try to prove you wrong, by their twists and manipulations, e.g. in form of omitting part of a statement or text, in newer revisions of their printings, so the meaning will be totally different and possible for them to suppport their latest and changed doctrines and teachings.

There was a lawyer one, who tried to give me a wierd advice. If you intend to lie, then lie as close as the truth as possibe, then it will be difficult to prove you wrong. Maybe he is one of the many lawyers within the Watchtower Society :thinking:

I'm sorry that I can't avoid be thinking of who the Scriptures tells us is the father of the liers, in John chapter 8 verse 44:

Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

RE: Five Minute 1914 Workout

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...hp?tid=402

Just to "pile on"...

Here is a 1914 1 minute math lesson:

2007 (current year) - 1914 (alleged "presence) = 93 years

93 X 360 ("jewish" days per year) = 33,480 "Last Days"

So, When the Bible says "Last Days";

DID IT MEAN 33,480 OF THEM ????

Hmmmmm.... :eat:

Prop-You can carve up 1914 like a Thanksgiving day Turkey-Min

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When you stand before God you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do 'thus', or that 'virtue wasn't convenient at the time'", this will not suffice" - King Baldwin IV, 1184 A.D.

I personally believe anyone receiving a wake-up call from this will be few and far between. Mostly 'New Light' is received gratefully and admiringly and appreciatively.... If one is resistant to accepting this ''new ''understanding they either don't dare discuss it--feel guilty they don't understand or accept it--but ultimately learn to live with it.

An elder explained to me a couple of years ago the ''absolute perfection'of the organization.'' He also said the only thing wrong with the organization is the 'deplorable condition of its members.''
Render me speechless but that also means any flaws are within You the member --not the headship...

The night after a date line show featuring child abuse among the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses was on there was an assembly. As I stood in a line with a group of sisters two were whispering about it--very afraid to get caught--and it was overwhelming the fear there was to even mention this show and admit any had watched it--It took me a long time to recognize this but it is a cult indeed and they have pretty much full control of their people...very sad :(

and may I add--if they can't control you they will then get rid of you and everyone knows that--making it very difficult to even point out the obvious... :(

Dear Wolfie

I believe you and all others can recognize the patterns in the following article about Cults:

From Dissociation: Clinical and Theoretical Perspectives. Lynn, SJ and Rhue JW, eds. ©1994 The Guilford Press. Reprinted with permission.

http://earthops.org/cult/dissociation1.html

A totalist cult is defined as follows: "Cult (totalist type): a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing, and employing unethical, manipulative or coercive techniques of persuasion and control:

E.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressure, information management, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, suspension of individuality and critical judgment, and so on, designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders, to the possible or actual detriment of members, their families, or the community."

The basis for this definition, and a general discussion of the cult problem, is given elsewhere (West, 1983). Among various totalist cults, there may be some differences as to how intense the persuasive activities are, and in the degree to which recruits can be separated from their previous social networks. Even though he may have been attracted to the cult by elaborate and deceptive recruiting techniques, the neophyte cultist enters it "voluntarily." With rare exceptions, nobody puts a gun to his head. Yet, successful indoctrination of a cult member often includes many elements similar to the political indoctrination by such groups as the Chinese communists, which Schein (1961) described as coercive persuasion. In cults, as in the Chinese "brainwashing," "thought reform," or "coercive persuasion," people are often encouraged to criticize themselves in small-group confessionals as a means of strengthening their dependence on the group. As the process continues, members are systematically trained to relinquish independent action and thought, since only obedient behaviors and passive attitudes are rewarded, while resistance or self-assertion is punished.

yup--and it is pretty sad too. I thought I had found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow :(

Me and you both Wolfie, but by God's kindness we've got it now. :giverose:

Acts5v29

Of course, now this get me curious about other things:

The modern day Bible Students....what exactly is their stand on the 1914 thing?
(Roland???) :bouncy:

Dear Wolfie

I believe that you have been set free, if you listen to Jesus and I'm sure you remember his words to his followers, that the way wasn't through any man created organisation, a new mediator and doctrines of men, in John chapter 14:

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus ask Simon; Do you love me, and you know the answer, even that he denied him, because he was afraid, but what did Jesus, did he condemned him, No, not at all because he saw and understand Peters personality and that is the same with us. Therefore it is interesting to listen further to Jesus words, what it means to love him, in verse 23:

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Jesus maked it more easyer for us, than the religious leaders, which Jesus in very strong words condams in Matthew chapter 23, because they put burdons on people, when he gave these 2 commandments, insted of a written law and doctrines of men, as described in Matthew chapter 22:

Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

It is therefore my sincerely hope that nobody will bring them selves into any man created organisation and religious slavery again, but only listen to Jesus Christ, follow him as our only reference in life.

No man and their man created organisations, has their origin, ordinance or approval from Jehovah, as long as part or all of their teachings deviate from Jesus Christs examples of love, compassion and words. Definitive not as long as they are responsible for that there are sheps that has and will be sent into a premature death, based at their doctrines, as described in Matthew chapter 25 verse 40.

Jesus Christ is the only shepherd that will collect all sheps in one fold and what did Jehovah said, This is my son listen to him.. :heartbeat:

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

Not two folds, but only one fold (with Jews and Gentiles ) where we all can be inherit in, if we really listen to, love and follow Jesus Christ, not men or their man created organisations. :eat:

Dear Matt

Maybe we should look at and what Jesus Christ he told his followers in Acts chapter 1 versus 7-11, this instead of focusing at any doctrine of man, even that the Gospel also was preached to the end of the existing world in the past, but we haven't seen Jesus coming "visible out of the clods yet", or do we?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Do you belive Jesus Christ was invisible when he departed into the clouds and become invisible for the eyes of the men and also was comming back invisible when Jerusalem was destroyed :thinking:

Maybe we all have something left from our time with The Watchtower Society and their indoctrination processes and our hearts isn't still, as childrens so we can listen to and understand Jesus words, teaching and examples, by taking single verse our of its context to support our stand and doctrines :whistle: