Hi all
Noticing this subject arrise on another thread, I thought I might like a topic all its own.
We are given the promise in the Bible of Dwelling with Christ. Many wonder where and how this will be?
What are your thoughts friends? Since this is our hope, I thought it would be great to examine it.
A few scriptures I feel that could be considered here may be some of the promises in the Following:
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth. And the things before will not be remembered, nor come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. Isa 65:17,18
looking for and rushing the coming of the Day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will melt away, and the elements will melt, burning with heat? But according to His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Therefore, beloved, looking for these things, be diligent, spotless, and without blemish, to be found by Him in peace. -2Pe 3:12-14
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. And the sea no longer is. And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband. And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. -Rev 21:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, so that where I am, you may be also. Joh 14:1-3
Any thoughts?
Love
Lynn
Hi Lynn,
My thoughts are we have to go back to the drawing-board on this one. Personally, I would feel that some verses we accepted as gospel as meaning eternal life on earth were not so certain. Like Psalm 37:11
But the meek shall inherit the land; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Looking at it in context, I wonder...
I have a gut feeling that the new heavens and new earth will be a whole new ball game where the earth will be linked to heaven as a footstool is linked to a seat. I'm sure you know the point I'm trying to make. God really will be with His people as His figurative body extends from the throne to the footstool.
The scriptures, at least at face value, don't really support my opinion so the earthly hope is personal to me and I feel 'each to their opinion' on this topic.
Regards,
Brendan.
Hi Brenden. :-)
Thanks for your thoughts. You said:
The scriptures, at least at face value, don't really support my opinion
I would not be so quick to decide this. Like you said, I think wiping the slate clean and starting over is a good idea. It clears our mind to see what is actually said, in scripture and spirit.
So with a clean slate, I think a relook is in order. You know my friend I am in agreement. I think we are talking about a whole new ballgame. And does it say? A new heaven and Earth?
His promise to us if that we will be with him. And where will he be? The scriptures teach that his throne will be in New Jerusalem. Now come the next logical step. Where is New Jerusalem? It comes down out of heaven to Earth. It becomes like a new Eden. Where Men dwell with God. For the text further says. His tent will dwell with Man. So this will truly be something that has never existed before! The heavens as we know it, and the concept that we have of earth will be NEW!
It sure takes out alot of the debate on who goes to heaven who lives on earth huh?!
With Christian Love
Lynn
Any thoughts?
Quantum physics!
Sis Lynn,
There are just a few things I’m pretty sure I know – the Jews were looking forward to a resurrection in the way we understood it as JWs. The world of Christendom looks on our planet as a kind of testing ground to see whether we should go up to heaven or down to hell, and the WS sees everybody righteous living on a new earth except a tiny few who rule as kings with Christ from heaven.
Me, I think the fence between earth and heaven will be mended, allowing God and His Son (or God through His Son) to freely inhabit both worlds. Why, someone might ask? It sounds a bit like Jacob’s ladder, with divine creatures crossing the divide between the two realms. The next logical question might be why God would not extend His figurative body toward the footstool because of sin in the first place, and why did He not do it after the ransom sacrifice, leaving it until a future time when what...enough has occurred on earth to fulfil what some of us see as end-time prophecy?
I think a lot of us here would put our money on the last option, if we thought betting was OK.
But getting back to the scriptures – I can’t help but think that a lot of individual scriptures would indicate the promotion to heaven for the anointed who have endured, but the gist of it indicates otherwise to me, and I guess, to you too. I feel sure that Spiritual Israel, and the chosen ones taken from that group, will occupy positions on earth. In short, I think human beings were made for the earth, no matter how holy they are.
Please give my regards to Matt, who I haven’t spoken to for some time now.
Regards,
Brendan.
We keep hoping for a new heavens and a new earth and yet there does seem to be a formula in the scriptures which indicates that we need to actively participate in something before the hoped for blessings actually start to happen.
Compare these scriptures:
Isaiah 60:1
1 “Arise, O woman, shed forth light, for your light has come and upon you the very glory of Jehovah has shone forth. 2 For, look! darkness itself will cover the earth, and thick gloom the national groups; but upon you Jehovah will shine forth, and upon you his own glory will be seen. 3 And nations will certainly go to your light, and kings to the brightness of your shining forth.
The question which begs to be answered after reading the above scripture is;... ....... shed forth what light?
There is a kind of formula which explains this "light shed forth" mentioned in this scripture:
Isaiah 58:6
“Is not this the fast that I choose? To loosen the fetters of wickedness, to release the bands of the yoke bar, and to send away the crushed ones free, and that YOU people should tear in two every yoke bar? 7 Is it not the dividing of your bread out to the hungry one, and that you should bring the afflicted, homeless people into [your] house? That, in case you should see someone naked, you must cover him, and that you should not hide yourself from your own flesh? 8 “In that case your light would break forth just like the dawn; and speedily would recuperation spring up for you. And before you your righteousness would certainly walk; the very glory of Jehovah would be your rear guard. 9 In that case you would call, and Jehovah himself would answer; you would cry for help, and he would say, ‘Here I am!’
Now compare it to a scripture in Malachi:
Malachi 3:10
Bring all the tenth parts into the storehouse, that there may come to be food in my house; and test me out, please, in this respect,” Jehovah of armies has said, “whether I shall not open to YOU people the floodgates of the heavens and actually empty out upon YOU a blessing until there is no more want.”
In my opinion Christians are waiting around for a new heaven and a new earth however, if we really do want a new heaven and a new earth the scriptures seem to indicate that we need to do something in order to realize the new heaven and the new earth.
I think as Christians we should be living our lives in a completely different way than the rest of the world or nations live their lives.
and then:
upon you Jehovah will shine forth
In Christ
abe
Hello Abe,
You said:
In my opinion Christians are waiting around for a new heaven and a new earth however, if we really do want a new heaven and a new earth the scriptures seem to indicate that we need to do something in order to realize the new heaven and the new earth.
When you said this I thought of these words of Jesus
Therefore by their fruits you shall know them.
Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works? And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!
And what is his fathers Will?
" He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him. ...
......This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. "
Lynn
ABE,
"I think as Christians we should be living our lives in a completely different way than the rest of the world or nations live their lives."
I can sink my teeth into this brother..
WE need to be light in a dark place...
many have heard the lyrics
"who's that girl"
we we walk in the building people should take note. not becasue we are rich not because we have social status.
BUt becuase we are trully not the norm. we are extending the strong arm of GOD himself as we are a tool he can use.
we need to stand firm and never shrink back.
We give mercy and yet hold accountable those whom give no mercy
we allow the books to be written as we walk and make our father happy to know us.
Our Brother and Lord said it would be torture and I believe him.
easily spoken,
yet on our own stenght nearly impossible
we are not alone thou
we see the results all the time of those that harbor resentment and let wounds fester.
WE have to push thru and allow our LOVE light shine as our Fathers LOVE shines down on us
......This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. "
Lynn
Lynn,
It is very hard to imagine what the world would actually be like if everybody did that.
Eventually I believe that the world will see it start to happen and the people participating being showered with enormous blessings from Jehovah.
They will see the light being shed forth
In Christ
abe
ABE,
"I think as Christians we should be living our lives in a completely different way than the rest of the world or nations live their lives."
I can sink my teeth into this brother..
WE need to be light in a dark place...
many have heard the lyrics
"who's that girl"
we we walk in the building people should take note. not becasue we are rich not because we have social status.
BUt becuase we are trully not the norm. we are extending the strong arm of GOD himself as we are a tool he can use.
we need to stand firm and never shrink back.
We give mercy and yet hold accountable those whom give no mercy
we allow the books to be written as we walk and make our father happy to know us.
Our Brother and Lord said it would be torture and I believe him.
easily spoken,
yet on our own stenght nearly impossible
we are not alone thou
we see the results all the time of those that harbor resentment and let wounds fester.
WE have to push thru and allow our LOVE light shine as our Fathers LOVE shines down on us
TotalDismay,
Yes, it seems to me that as Christians we should be doing the exact opposite of what everybody else will be doing.
Swimming against the current.
I understand all this love your neighbour stuff however, the loosening the fetters of wickedness and setting the crushed ones free is a little confusing.
What does that really mean?
What are the fetters of wickedness?
What are the yoke bands?
and
Who are the crushed ones?
In Christ
abe
I am with ya,,
great questions
I am with ya,,
great questions
And they deserve answers.
This is what God wants us to do!
I think a bible research forum should collaborate together to find the answers.
Then do it!
The blessings are too enormous to ignore.
In Christ
abe
Hi Abe,
I think you are leaning in the New Age direction of interpreting 'the kingdom of God is within you'. I'm not sure that you are, but I instantly thought of what Beau writes at the end of a post 'Live the kingdom now!' and what life would be like if everybody came on board and gave it their best shot.
If it happened, then we would need to re-interpret how we understand end-times prophecies with the basic current understanding that the Lord comes into a world that has deteriorated drastically, where as Paul says 'there is no agreement between people' and John says 'He will bring to ruin those who are ruining the earth'.
Your idea of collaboration is spot on, I think, but I don't see the demand for it, yet. It may be as Leonard Cohen wrote, 'we will come to love, but like a refugee'.
Regards,
Brendan.
We keep hoping for a new heavens and a new earth and yet there does seem to be a formula in the scriptures which indicates that we need to actively participate in something before the hoped for blessings actually start to happen.
Compare these scriptures:
Isaiah 60:1
1 “Arise, O woman, shed forth light, for your light has come and upon you the very glory of Jehovah has shone forth. 2 For, look! darkness itself will cover the earth, and thick gloom the national groups; but upon you Jehovah will shine forth, and upon you his own glory will be seen. 3 And nations will certainly go to your light, and kings to the brightness of your shining forth.
The question which begs to be answered after reading the above scripture is;... ....... shed forth what light?
There is a kind of formula which explains this "light shed forth" mentioned in this scripture:
Isaiah 58:6
“Is not this the fast that I choose? To loosen the fetters of wickedness, to release the bands of the yoke bar, and to send away the crushed ones free, and that YOU people should tear in two every yoke bar? 7 Is it not the dividing of your bread out to the hungry one, and that you should bring the afflicted, homeless people into [your] house? That, in case you should see someone naked, you must cover him, and that you should not hide yourself from your own flesh? 8 “In that case your light would break forth just like the dawn; and speedily would recuperation spring up for you. And before you your righteousness would certainly walk; the very glory of Jehovah would be your rear guard. 9 In that case you would call, and Jehovah himself would answer; you would cry for help, and he would say, ‘Here I am!’
Now compare it to a scripture in Malachi:
Malachi 3:10
Bring all the tenth parts into the storehouse, that there may come to be food in my house; and test me out, please, in this respect,” Jehovah of armies has said, “whether I shall not open to YOU people the floodgates of the heavens and actually empty out upon YOU a blessing until there is no more want.”
In my opinion Christians are waiting around for a new heaven and a new earth however, if we really do want a new heaven and a new earth the scriptures seem to indicate that we need to do something in order to realize the new heaven and the new earth.
I think as Christians we should be living our lives in a completely different way than the rest of the world or nations live their lives.
and then:
upon you Jehovah will shine forth
In Christ
abe
Oh ABE!! THE BEST POST YOU HAVE EVER POSTED!!!!
Light is LOVE! Spread the LOVE!! Send your light!! You HAVE the power because God is IN YOU.
(Exactly the opposite of spreading Armageddon FEAR PORN!!)
Google the word "Lightworker" (Caution, it's viewed here as demonism) 
Hey Brendan, New Age my ARSE 
Stop demonizing Light and Love!!
Peace, Light and Love,
Jimmy C,
We keep hoping for a new heavens and a new earth and yet there does seem to be a formula in the scriptures which indicates that we need to actively participate in something before the hoped for blessings actually start to happen.
Isaiah 60:1
1 “Arise, O woman, shed forth light, for your light has come and upon you the very glory of Jehovah has shone forth. 2 For, look! darkness itself will cover the earth, and thick gloom the national groups; but upon you Jehovah will shine forth, and upon you his own glory will be seen. 3 And nations will certainly go to your light, and kings to the brightness of your shining forth.
The question which begs to be answered after reading the above scripture is;... ....... shed forth what light?
There is a kind of formula which explains this "light shed forth" mentioned in this scripture:
Isaiah 58:6
“Is not this the fast that I choose? To loosen the fetters of wickedness, to release the bands of the yoke bar, and to send away the crushed ones free, and that YOU people should tear in two every yoke bar? 7 Is it not the dividing of your bread out to the hungry one, and that you should bring the afflicted, homeless people into [your] house? That, in case you should see someone naked, you must cover him, and that you should not hide yourself from your own flesh? 8 “In that case your light would break forth just like the dawn; and speedily would recuperation spring up for you. And before you your righteousness would certainly walk; the very glory of Jehovah would be your rear guard. 9 In that case you would call, and Jehovah himself would answer; you would cry for help, and he would say, ‘Here I am!’
Malachi 3:10
Bring all the tenth parts into the storehouse, that there may come to be food in my house; and test me out, please, in this respect,” Jehovah of armies has said, “whether I shall not open to YOU people the floodgates of the heavens and actually empty out upon YOU a blessing until there is no more want.”
In my opinion Christians are waiting around for a new heaven and a new earth however, if we really do want a new heaven and a new earth the scriptures seem to indicate that we need to do something in order to realize the new heaven and the new earth.
We're not "just waiting around" - we're doing what we ought to be doing - witnessing to God's Kingdom with our Lord Jesus at the helm! The answers to your questions about those scriptures are right there in them - "is it not" the bolded words? There is no 'formula', it's simply allowing God's Spirit to guide us in "doing good".
Feed the hungry and clothe the poor - literally. And figuratively, feed them by sharing with them the bread of life, Christ Jesus; and clothe them within his protective body of believers, for when they're repentant they are as we all are - covered by his blood of redemption! In a world that's only concern is self gratification, those who give selflessly truly do shine as workers for God and His Christ. It's not an endeavor we accomplish on our own, but only with the help of the Holy Spirit.
Able, it seems you're looking for some difficult to discern, underlying meanings to these scriptures, while the real meanings are well articulated right within them.
His peace to you, Able. 