Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Is the True God’s name YHWH?

Or is YHWH someone else - masking as the True God?

I’ve been researching this question off and on for a couple years from a number of different sources, after bumping into an odd read one day that claimed that YHWH is not God’s name, but Satan’s. This has been a tough topic to confront to be sure, to think that the world has been cleverly deceived as to God’s real name, and that the name being used based on YHWH is in reality Satan, the God of this system.

The below link is the first of fifteen utube *segments that is well worth the watch. I ran across this accidently the other day while googling another topic, and it rekindled me looking into this issue. These guys do one of the better presentations I’ve seen for technical and scriptural detail and line of reasoning and approach, with the apparent lack of an axe to grind or an agenda to promote other than the finding of truth. Depending on how well this thread goes, there is another link from another source that offers corroboration.

I still have a couple questions yet to research, but the argument is convincing - and I’m stunned. Hopefully persons responding to this thread will offer comment only after watching the entire presentation, with the basis for the discussion - the finding of flaws in the line of reasoning based on solid counter points. Suggestion: Frame comments referencing the segment #'s so everyone can note where counterpoints are being directed.

What IS God’s name? Part 3 begins the alleged answer – EHYEH - Ahayah.


THE TRUE NAME OF GOD & THE ORIGIN OF ''YHWH''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK9IfLfhz...re=related


v r



* Use the sidebar to the right in utube to see the next clip since the auto presentation doesn’t automatically bring them up on the main screen as the sections complete.

:cry: I can't watch videos onthis dial-up connection :crybaby: - and this is a subject that's always fascinated me no end!

It just seems so implausible to me that the true name could be 'lost' by scribes. :scratchhead:

Are there any links to text references?

'Melancolymuse', Malkah and some others have presented some good info about the name 'Jehovah' also.

I wish I could watch! :whine:

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Rev. 3:12

What do you think about this? "I will write upon him my [/b]new[/b] name?"

Very interesting indeed!

I have watched the first video, and would like to watch them all.

Some thoughts:

The pronunciation of YHWH was revealed to Abraham ruffly 2000 yrs before Christ and was firstly preserved in holy scripture by Moses but was then eventually lost, especially after the exile.

So the name was lost within at least 1500 yrs. Obviously the Most High has the ability to preserve whatever He feels is important, yet the exact pronunciation is lost.

Now consider the name Jesus, it has been preserved for over 2000 yrs and has existed for even longer in the Hebrew: יהושע‎ "Yehoshua," meaning "Yahweh is salvation".

Notice that the name of Christ is formed from the YHWH as are many other bible names. This fact makes it hard for me to believe that the YHWH is refering to any other than the Most High God.

As for the exact pronunciation of the ancient name as revealed to Abraham and Moses, it must not be vital to know, otherwise it would have been preserved just as the name and pronunciation of Jesus has been.

Actually it has been preserved thru the name of Jesus, as that very name, Yehoshua, refers to that One (YHWH) as our salvation.

This is the Most Highs will, the name that He has preserved, the only name that it is vital we know and speak and understand:


Acts 4 (American Standard Version)
10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ
12 And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved.

Philippians 2:9-11 (American Standard Version)

9 Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;

10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,

11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


In quoting Joel 2:32, Peter clearly applies calling on the "name" YHWH to Jesus. From this we can clearly understand the will of the Most High as to the name that is vital to be known and understood for salvation.

Acts 2:21 (New International Version)

21And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved.

38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Joel 2:32 (New International Version)

32 And everyone who calls
on the name of the LORD (YHWH) will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the LORD (YHWH) has said,
among the survivors
whom the LORD (YHWH) calls.

And again, Paul quoting Joel 2:32 points to Jesus.

Romans 10:13,14,17 (New International Version)

13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved."

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

This new name is the new arrangement of God. In the past God has revealed Himself to men in many differant ways but lastly He is completly revealed in Jesus, thus this is the name which is vital.


Hebrews 1:1-3 (Amplified Bible)

1IN MANY separate revelations [each of which set forth a portion of the Truth] and in different ways God spoke of old to [our] forefathers in and by the prophets,
2[But] in the last of these days He has spoken to us in [the person of a] Son, Whom He appointed Heir and lawful Owner of all things, also by and through Whom He created the worlds and the reaches of space and the ages of time [He made, produced, built, operated, and arranged them in order].

3He is the sole expression of the glory of God [the Light-being, the out-raying or radiance of the divine], and He is the perfect imprint and very image of [God's] nature, upholding and maintaining and guiding and propelling the universe by His mighty word of power. When He had by offering Himself accomplished our cleansing of sins and riddance of guilt, He sat down at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high

All of these things we know and understand so possibly the debate on the YHWH is not so important. But as for this topic on the YHWH not representing the Most High, I am as yet not convinced especially considering how greatly that name plays in the names of so many thruout scripture including the very name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Now as for the transliterated names of God which men have formed from the YHWH such as "Jehovah", that is a differant story completly!;)

:heartbeat:

Jayme

Malkah says to remind everyone that the letters YHWH are found throughout the OT, forwards and backwards, worked into the Hebrew of every book. Don't ask me the details, she's studied this stuff, but its there thousands of times. Its one of the ways the Jews know what is, and isn't scripture apparently.

thank you muchly moh and malkah :friends:

I am taking this to mean YHWH is correct for God's name? ANd may Malkah please know she is dear to this group of peoples and wish her company asap :hug:

John 7:28...

"At this point Jesus, still teaching in the temple, shouted, "So you know me and know where I have come from? I have not come on my own accord. But the one who sent me is true, and he is the one you do not know.
I know him because I have come from him and he sent me."


:coffeeread:

Excellent points Jayme and Benyamin (did I spell that right? - no "j"? please give Malkah my love :love: )

Is the "W" right too - as I've seen it written YHVH - I was thinking ancient Hebrew had no "J" or "W" - but I get confused easily, lol!

Wish I could watch the videos anyway :whine: oh well :surrender:

:peace:

Thanks to Jesus it is FATHER!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5-6gwssX...re=related


Let's look at Exodus 3 and see what is being said.



11 But Moses said to God, "Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the Israelites out of Egypt?"

12 And God said, "I will be with you (the Hebrew is Plural ). And this will be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you will worship God on this mountain."

( Doesn't this language sound strange? "God said" " you will worship God" )

13 Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"

14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . ( In other words I am the self existent one, I need nothing outside myself for my exsistence, I AM the only GOD in existence why ask my name? ) This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

15 God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

16 "Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said:

I would have to say God has MANY names "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" " I AM " " Savior" " Lord " " The First and the Last "

Why should sinful men know Him in such a personal way?

For Israel whose sin was only attoned for or covered there was no way that they could call GOD " Father " or "ABBA" that could not happen without the removal of sin the just for the unjust.

________________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________


As I see it the OT reveals " The Son " when Christ says, over and over " the Scriptures " He is talking about the OT and what does the OT reveal?


Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘ The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.This was the LORD’s doing,And it is marvelous in our eyes’?


Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Luke 24:32
And they said to one another, “Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?”

Luke 24:44
Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

Luke 24:45
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

John 5:39
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.




Matthew 26:54
How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?”

Matthew 26:56
But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples forsook Him and fled.


________________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________

The NT reveals " The Father ", the one who no one has ever seen is now revealed in the the person of The Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11:27
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.


John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

John 10:38
but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

John 12:50
And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?

The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. ( He does what only GOD can do )

________________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________

The Holy Spirit Reveals " Jesus Christ " in the NT and both Father and Son in the OT.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

Mark 12:36
For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: ‘ The LORD said to my Lord,“ Sit at My right hand,Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”’

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:8
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.


And of course in the Future Jesus will be revealed so differently than His first manifestation as " The lamb " " suffering servant ".

The Revelation ( or unveiling of Jesus Christ )

when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man,"dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Rev 19

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.


1 John 1:2
the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2qm3eD4akM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QQgq7j4o8M

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

The Guys in that video scare the daylights out of me if those faces are the faces of followers of Jesus.Where is the Love?

My gut instinct says RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN that is Another Spirit at work there.

Scarey:devil:


BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

Unfortunately, I'm also on dial up, so I can't watch the vids either. :crybaby:

I'm thinking that the the most earliest writings used Yahweh, such as in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Also, in many many archaeological finds, the name of Yahweh as the true God comes up quite often.

I have also run across internet Satanism sites; one in particular claimed that SATAN is the name of the true God, and that Yahweh is the evil one trying to usurp Satan's position.

If Satan could convince people that Yahweh is an imposter, imagine the havoc he could wreak with that! :shocked:
I think a person should use EXTREME caution with what you're looking at, as I tend to think it's Satan's ploy to destroy men's faith in the True God. :readthis:

If anyone cares to see my article about God's Name, here it is:
http://www.commontruth.com/GodsName.html