Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi all,
For anyone interested in science, particularly astronomy, I can recommend the new BBC4 series on beautiful minds.

You should be able to pick up on the BBC iplayer.
This week it was regarding the young woman scientist who discovered Pulsars.

Jocelyn Bell Burnell

She is a lifelong Quaker and has some interesting things to say about science and certainty,
regards
Derek

Hi Derek,

I saw that programme. She discovered the pulsing energy from stars that came at regular intervals at certain times of the month (or was it year?) This isn’t usually my cup o’ tea but she spoke in such a clear way about complicated stuff, I thought I could keep up.

I think the gist was that we used to think that the solar system was made of the interactions between planets that were based on perfect circles, with the earth in the centre. Then with better equipment, they saw that the arrangement was not so neat as we would like. The sun was put in its proper place and ovals replaced circles. Then this lady discovered the pulsing stars, that seemed to replace the idea that all stars and planets were static in their own right.

So I’m drawing the conclusion that we have a solar system that is anything but constant mathematically and is also not constant in essence either, yet the whole structure does not collapse. I guess it makes it that bit more miraculous.

It was nice to see that her career in science had no negative effect on her faith, and it was sad to see how her discovery was credited to her male department head instead of herself.

Regards,
Brendan.

Hi Brendan,
She was some lady, totally lacking in negative feelings over being set aside for the Nobel Prize when she worked so hard and others took the credit.

I thought it was good how she explained science was not about the search for truth, but a search for understanding.

She felt, I think, the present speculation about the universe expanding due to dark matter and dark energy was overcomplicated fiddling of the the data with no evidence to back it up.

I found the programme quite insightful into the way science should work.

I thought it funny how her superiors wanted to ban the discovery of the first pulsar because they thought the pulsar was aliens trying communicate. She just went out and found another one!
It says something for practicing Quaker belief.

regards
Derek

Hi Derek,

Maybe the same program spoke about how people’s faith in scripture was knocked a bit by the discovery of people in the New World – I’m not sure. I wonder if this lady also thought that the pulsing light might be aliens, and if she did, would that trouble her faith. I wonder what I would think. Of course, I don’t think the issue will ever present itself, but...?

I didn’t quite understand what you meant by

She just went out and found another one!
It says something for practicing Quaker belief.

Regards,
Brendan.

Hi Brendan,
No, she herself did not think the pulsar was aliens trying to contact earth, it was her bosses that did.

She studied the records and went to the observatory and found another pulsar in a different area of the sky....then another....and another....etc..etc

It was hardly likely there were a number of different alien civilizations in different parts of our universe trying to contact earth with the same radio signature.
Logic demands a different explanation to little green men. :) :)
Regards
Derek

Ah, I get it. Thanks!

Hi guys,Just to clear things up, Pulsars don't pulse, like a blinking light, they rotate with a steady beam of light energy, like a light house beam. One more thing, its not incorrect to say that the Earth is the center of the Universe, because if we peer into space in any direction, the perceived distance to the "edge" of space is always the same. Another strange conventional belief that needs to be put to rest, is that the Moon rotates around the Earth. The truth is that they rotate around each other, but because the Earth's mass is greater, the Moons orbit is larger then the Earth's orbit. Thats why the Earth's orbit around the sun in not smooth, but wobbles. :P

Hi Imagine,
Of course, you are dead right. The 'stream' of electromagnetic radiation (that produces the pulses) is emitted from the end of the magnetic axis, which at one point faces to earth and when the star rotates on its actual axis, the centre of the magnetic axis faces earth with an inherent periodicity.
The effect is a series of pulses to an observer on the earth. We all use 'short hand' every day when we talk of sunrise and sunset.

Yes, the 'light house light', is a good analogy since the mirror assembly blocks the light when the mirror is facing away from the observer.
I suppose the same system, a physically rotating 'field', is used by man in the radar scanner, but in that case the reflected signal is also detected.

The moon/earth pair orbit is an interesting one! I think I read the centre of the binary rotation is deep inside earth's crust.

You must post more astronomy stuff, e-magine, my main field of science interest, outside my work, is ornithology.
best regards
Derek

Ok guys, slow it down a bit for me - are you saying that while the sun is the centre of the solar system, the earth is at the centre of the universe. (you know they say that the only stupid question is the one not asked, so bear with me)

The truth is that they rotate around each other

sorta like a bolas huh E?

Hi Brendan,
No, Brendan, I think imagine was talking about it from the human observers perspective. The 'horizon', where the most distant light comes from, is like looking from inside the centre of a sphere to its perimeter, omni-directionally. Distant galaxies are receding from us as they would anywhere in an expanding universe, but we are not positioned where the Big-Bang took place.....at the actual centre.....I don't think so, anyway?
I have grossly oversimplified, cos I know no better. :)

We are about two thirds the way out from the centre of our Milky Way, if I remember correctly, on one 'arm' of stars.
Our galaxy is not a special one physically, it has c.100,000,000,000 stars (roughly 20X more than the number of persons on planet earth.
Our milky way is just one galaxy of c.100,000,000,000 galaxies all of c.100,000,000,000 stars.
Old Iso will correct me if I am wrong. :) He may know if we could see beyond the so called 'event horizon', if the actual theoretical centre of the universe could be calculated?

So we may not be at the centre of the Universe, physically.
But we are at the centre of God's plan and I guess that is more important for us.

Hi Frank,
You have lost me in your metaphysics! :)

E said they revolve around each other..

IF I take the weapon bolas ,, it can have two objects that revolve around eachother when thrown.. do you see why it sounds the same to me..

they are conected by a cord btw

Hi Frank,
Yep, gotcha, I realize now, the gauchos use them all the time.
e-magine was talking about the earth and moon pair not the sun.

If you had a bolas with the relative mass's at the ends proportional to the earth and moon, I would have thought they would rotate in a similar way!

I wonder if it would work as a bolas? :)

But we are at the centre of God's plan and I guess that is more important for us.

Hi Derek,

This was my focus on the Beautiful Minds program – the relationship of a scientist and her faith, and extending the possible dilemmas (or confirmations) between the two fields to myself.

I believe this lady’s data on pulsars led the way towards Stephen Hawking’s theory about black holes being given some credibility – something to do with a relationship between dying stars and black holes.
I would love to understand more about energy creating matter and dying matter possibly converting back to energy and all the possible implications that could lead towards a better understanding of, and appreciation for God’s universe. But I don’t have the aptitude, worse luck.

Regards,
Brendan.