That..... is..... evil. :rant: The Bible has quite a different message.
"For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors." - Isaiah 53:2-12 :read: :readthis:
03-29-2010, 09:50 PM
04-01-2010, 06:28 PM
Why i am not a Calvinist - Taken from insearchoftruth.org
"Two central problems exist with the doctrines of Calvinism. They indite God's character by accusing Him of mass injustice and selfish egotism. These implications are unavoidable and necessarily implied by the beliefs that God arbitrarily judges mankind based on God's predestination and for His own glory.
These beliefs and their derivatives are impossible for me to accept. Why? Not because I personally find them offensive or distasteful, but because God condemns such behavior from his creation. Would Calvinism teach that the creation is more responsible and capable than its Creator? Not without contradicting its fundamental premise of God's absolute sovereignty."
"Two central problems exist with the doctrines of Calvinism. They indite God's character by accusing Him of mass injustice and selfish egotism. These implications are unavoidable and necessarily implied by the beliefs that God arbitrarily judges mankind based on God's predestination and for His own glory.
These beliefs and their derivatives are impossible for me to accept. Why? Not because I personally find them offensive or distasteful, but because God condemns such behavior from his creation. Would Calvinism teach that the creation is more responsible and capable than its Creator? Not without contradicting its fundamental premise of God's absolute sovereignty."
04-05-2010, 12:34 PM
Yannis Wrote:
Why i am not a Calvinist - Taken from insearchoftruth.org
"Two central problems exist with the doctrines of Calvinism. They indite God's character by accusing Him of mass injustice and selfish egotism.
"Two central problems exist with the doctrines of Calvinism. They indite God's character by accusing Him of mass injustice and selfish egotism.
Really? How is this so? Please provide evidence, not claims.
Yannis Wrote:
These implications are unavoidable and necessarily implied by the beliefs that God arbitrarily judges mankind based on God's predestination and for His own glory.
"Calvinism" teaches that God judges mankind because of their sin and rebellion, not because of predestination. God is just and holy and righteous and must punish sin and rebellion against his rule. Obviously, when God judges sin, it is to the Glory of his justice. In fact everything God does is to his own glory. Whoever wrote this article doesn't understand what he is arguing against. Perhaps this can move to a different thread. What were your thoughts Yannis on the quote on Catholicism?
04-05-2010, 03:49 PM
Mavos Wrote:
What were your thoughts Yannis on the quote on Catholicism?
I agree with your assessment. Catholicism seems to be a works based religion.
04-05-2010, 08:05 PM
I agree with you, Yannis.
A couple of years ago, when I was working overnights, I worked with a male RN (Registered Nurse) who was as homosexual as anyone could be...HOWEVER, he would never actually admit to being one. And, he was more Roman Catholic than I ever knew anyone to be. Although he never outwardly admitted to his homosexuality, his constant references to his "friend" was very illuminating, to say the least (I won't go into details now).
And this RN could have been a Roman Catholic priest if he wanted to be: He went to confession every single day (either before or after work, according to schedule), He knew the Feast Day of everysaint for each day of the year, he'd take time out each night at work to read prayers and devotions from his book (even when he wasn't on break time), he gave communion to the patients each morning if they wanted it....and he was a veritable walking encyclopedia for Roman Catholicism! I'm serious, he was tons better than the "Catholicism For Dummies" book (which is a real book, btw)
HOWEVER....many of us wondered how much he did all these "works" to atone for his homosexual behaviour. It really seemed that he lived as though his "works" would redeem him of his behaviour.
A couple of years ago, when I was working overnights, I worked with a male RN (Registered Nurse) who was as homosexual as anyone could be...HOWEVER, he would never actually admit to being one. And, he was more Roman Catholic than I ever knew anyone to be. Although he never outwardly admitted to his homosexuality, his constant references to his "friend" was very illuminating, to say the least (I won't go into details now).
And this RN could have been a Roman Catholic priest if he wanted to be: He went to confession every single day (either before or after work, according to schedule), He knew the Feast Day of everysaint for each day of the year, he'd take time out each night at work to read prayers and devotions from his book (even when he wasn't on break time), he gave communion to the patients each morning if they wanted it....and he was a veritable walking encyclopedia for Roman Catholicism! I'm serious, he was tons better than the "Catholicism For Dummies" book (which is a real book, btw)
HOWEVER....many of us wondered how much he did all these "works" to atone for his homosexual behaviour. It really seemed that he lived as though his "works" would redeem him of his behaviour.
04-20-2010, 05:40 PM
Taken from the NY Times:
"In my travels around the world, I encounter two Catholic Churches. One is the rigid all-male Vatican hierarchy that seems out of touch when it bans condoms even among married couples where one partner is H.I.V.-positive. To me at least, this church — obsessed with dogma and rules and distracted from social justice — is a modern echo of the Pharisees whom Jesus criticized.
Yet there’s another Catholic Church as well, one I admire intensely. This is the grass-roots Catholic Church that does far more good in the world than it ever gets credit for. This is the church that supports extraordinary aid organizations like Catholic Relief Services and Caritas, saving lives every day, and that operates superb schools that provide needy children an escalator out of poverty.
This is the church of the nuns and priests in Congo, toiling in obscurity to feed and educate children. This is the church of the Brazilian priest fighting AIDS who told me that if he were pope, he would build a condom factory in the Vatican to save lives.
This is the church of the Maryknoll Sisters in Central America and the Cabrini Sisters in Africa. There’s a stereotype of nuns as stodgy Victorian traditionalists. I learned otherwise while hanging on for my life in a passenger seat as an American nun with a lead foot drove her jeep over ruts and through a creek in Swaziland to visit AIDS orphans. After a number of encounters like that, I’ve come to believe that the very coolest people in the world today may be nuns.
So when you read about the scandals, remember that the Vatican is not the same as the Catholic Church. Ordinary lepers, prostitutes and slum-dwellers may never see a cardinal, but they daily encounter a truly noble Catholic Church in the form of priests, nuns and lay workers toiling to make a difference."
Even though i am not Catholic, THAT is the Catholic Church I admire. :thumbup:
"In my travels around the world, I encounter two Catholic Churches. One is the rigid all-male Vatican hierarchy that seems out of touch when it bans condoms even among married couples where one partner is H.I.V.-positive. To me at least, this church — obsessed with dogma and rules and distracted from social justice — is a modern echo of the Pharisees whom Jesus criticized.
Yet there’s another Catholic Church as well, one I admire intensely. This is the grass-roots Catholic Church that does far more good in the world than it ever gets credit for. This is the church that supports extraordinary aid organizations like Catholic Relief Services and Caritas, saving lives every day, and that operates superb schools that provide needy children an escalator out of poverty.
This is the church of the nuns and priests in Congo, toiling in obscurity to feed and educate children. This is the church of the Brazilian priest fighting AIDS who told me that if he were pope, he would build a condom factory in the Vatican to save lives.
This is the church of the Maryknoll Sisters in Central America and the Cabrini Sisters in Africa. There’s a stereotype of nuns as stodgy Victorian traditionalists. I learned otherwise while hanging on for my life in a passenger seat as an American nun with a lead foot drove her jeep over ruts and through a creek in Swaziland to visit AIDS orphans. After a number of encounters like that, I’ve come to believe that the very coolest people in the world today may be nuns.
So when you read about the scandals, remember that the Vatican is not the same as the Catholic Church. Ordinary lepers, prostitutes and slum-dwellers may never see a cardinal, but they daily encounter a truly noble Catholic Church in the form of priests, nuns and lay workers toiling to make a difference."
Even though i am not Catholic, THAT is the Catholic Church I admire. :thumbup: