Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

I was aware of the one change of the JW baptismal declaration - so I was very surprised to learn there've been 3 revisions from the original -

Baptismal questions from the August 1, 1966 Watchtower, p. 465:
(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

Baptismal questions from the May 15, 1970 Watchtower, p. 309:
(1) Have you recognized yourself as a sinner and needing salvation from Jehovah God? And have you acknowledged that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus?

(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through God's Word as his holy spirit makes it plain?

Baptismal questions from the May 1, 1973 Watchtower, p. 280:
(1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

The newest baptismal questions, from the June 1, 1985 Watchtower:
(1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/baptism.php

Willa,

Compare the newest baptismal vows to what they said in this Watchtower Magazine:

w55 7/1 p. 411 Christian Baptism for the New World Society

15 A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit.


In Christ

abe

The newest question #1 is a combination and dumbing down of the older #1 & #2 questions.
The newest #2 question is entirely new and different, and was advised by the legal department to protect the society. By agreeing to it, they can DF you for disagreeing with the "Spirit Directed Org".
Also, the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" was copyrighted, so they can legally say, "so and so is no longer one of "Jehovah's witnesses"!!!!!!!!
:readthis:

:shocked:Isn't that wild? Do other churches copyright their members' titles like that - like if you're baptized as a Freewill Baptist, then decide to change and go to a Church of God - are you legally deleted as a member of the Freewill Baptists? Or are JWs the only ones to hold that 'legality' over their members? That seems so odd to me!

Also - for anyone who might not know - the WTBTS is incorporated, which is a legal attachment to the government, or so I understand.
Here's a list of the corporations and their incorporation dates - this may be only a partial list, but I've discovered this stuff is a little hard to find on the internet. Anyone who has more information, would you please post your findings? I find this so incredibly interesting, and disturbing, for a religion that's so seemingly opposed to any governmental attachments, pledges, etc... I thought the UN/NGO thing was a recent and solitary... um... indiscretion.:whistle:

Each of these corporations have separate presidents, vice-presidents, secretary/treasurers and boards of directors ---

Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania - 1884

Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York - 1909

Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New Jersey, Inc. - 1955

Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Florida, Inc. - 1986

Valley Farms Corporation - 1987

Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses - 2000

Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses - 2000

Kingdom Support Services, Inc. - 2000

Maybe some of you brothers with a mind for legal things can shed some light on the whys and wherefores? Would be much appreciated!

:heartbeat::peace:

Im no lawer, but a corporation is a legal entity, like an indivigual, and can be sued. By having many corporation, only the one involved can be sued, not the whole bunch. This limits their liability. By working under a corporation, the people in the corporation cannot be sued directly.

Also to add the legal corporation allows for owning land property, intelectual rights.

The new world translation is a version that they can copy right so they can actually defend and or sue based on the copyright.


One thing I remember from being young I always wondered why the scripture said if you recieve free give free. acording to Gods word I find it funny that they used to more or less sell the bible..

IF it was GOD's word how can any man have a copy write on it?

Funny thing about law is Satan seems to be very lawyer like.
He accuses "US" what did he use to bring accusation against us?
Law? GOD's law that he introduced to mankind.
before law no sin was counted as far as I can tell.

I wonder if the VOW is considered a "law" or contract.
People worry about pledging allegance to the flag and the us!
What about dedication to a manmade false kingdom of GOD?

Makes me sick

Looks like the Watchtower Society has exclusive rights to the memorial as well!

Maybe they have the Holy Spirit copyrighted too!

Acts 1:8
but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth.


In Christ

abe

TotalDismay,

The baptismal vows are a sworn statement to a binding contract.

A contract between Jehovah, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit and the new disciple.

The contract IS the New Holy Covenant.

Do you see why this scripture was fullfilled when the JWs changed their baptismal vows on the 1st June, 1985:


Daniel 11
“And he will actually go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will have to go back and will give consideration to those leaving the holy covenant. 31 And there will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant [feature].
“And they will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation.

It makes me sick too!

It is a disgusting thing, an abomination, an appalling sacrilege.

The removal of the constant feature needs a milestone date in order to do the required calculations in Daniel Chapter 12.

Do you see the date?


In Christ

abe

Abe,

I am not good with the details. So dates and things just frustrate me..
I lose track too easily.

Abe that is why I never made it as a JW.. I have always been a big picture person. Getting the minute details in order and following things to the strick degree isn't my thing.

we all have a part thou. So thank GOD I may be of some use..

FYI, I do think that you have some valid points that others may not see brother. BUt I think like many things that it is in part only.

we need to all keep praying for the HS to guide us into all truths together and prove the LOVE is not dead.
Alot of sharp tongues around here. I think it may not help. but we are a family. So I expect it.

TotalDismay,

Here are some of the details you can expect in regard to understanding what happens after the New Holy Covenant is undermined and the profaning of the Christian Temple:

Daniel 11
But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively. 33 And as regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many. And they will certainly be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for [some] days. 34 But when they are made to stumble they will be helped with a little help; and many will certainly join themselves to them by means of smoothness. 35 And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of [the] end; because it is yet for the time appointed.

There is a very large concern that people will stumble over these events.

I was disfellowshipped over exposing these very same things.

Did I stumble or prevail?

Am I still captive or emancipated?

Am I being refined?

If I look at my financial circumstances I can most certainly tell you that I am being plundered.

I think the important thing to learn is how to prevail and act effectively.

What should the people knowing their God now do in order to act effectively?

Gods temple has been profaned.

What can mere men do about that circumstance in order to act effectively?

Without stumbling.


If all this happened 25 years ago then how close to the end are we?

until the time of [the] end; because it is yet for the time appointed.

For this reason I really do think the people involved in this understanding will see the end.


or stumble.


In Christ

abe

e-magine,

This was a new disfellowshipping procedure instituted in the year 2005 and published in the "Organized to do Jehovah's Will" book.

The year 2005 is the first time people were excluded from amongst their brothers through the use of God`s actual name.

Please carefully consider what it says in Isaiah Chapter 66.

Isaiah 66:5-6
5 Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”
6 There is a sound of uproar out of the city, a sound out of the temple! It is the sound of Jehovah repaying what is deserved to his enemies.


If these are contiguous events then what happens next?

and

If the people who are knowing their God understand this then what should they now do to prevail and act effectively, keeping in mind that the city and its temple are about to be desolated?


Daniel 11
But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively.


and


How close are we to the end?

Daniel 12
And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.


In Christ


abe

Hi e-magine.
The following scriptures are being posted for serious meditation

(Exodus 20:7) 7 “You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way.

(Leviticus 19:12) 12 And YOU must not swear in my name to a lie, so that you do profane the name of your God. I am Jehovah.

Since the watchtower teachings are being changed and what was "true" one year is "false" the next and "Jehovah's witnesses" are required to (believe / obey) every teaching without question how will they know if they are bearing true or false testimony in Jehovah's name?

There's some deep, deep doo doo

P.S. I was baptized March of 1984, just under the wire.

Yes, the Watchtower Society's change of baptismal vows sends a message that in order to benefit from the new covenant that Jehovah's son Jesus Christ came to this earth to die for you have to make a vow to us mere men as well.

Do you see why 7 million people are about to be desolated?

In Christ

abe

Hi ab and Thinking! Yes, it's all coming to a boil. The deep doo doo is about to hit the mother of all winds!