If you believe that this "Man" is Jehovah, himself, then why would he even need help from another man? Remember this person is appalled and evidently is very concerned that no one would help him in his holy efforts. This doesn't seem to me to be a fitting description of the "awesome" power of the "The Most High",does it?
Good point, Abe. As I pointed out here and in other places, Jesus if often being spoken of when our Bible translations indicate that it is Jehovah. So, it could be him. However, the text clearly indicates that the individual is not just a man.
Good afternoon br. abe ... :hibye:
Just wanted to say a quick hello and comment before I take my kids off to town ... :giverose:
Isn't it amazing brother how we continue to GROW :rose: ... to learn ...!! :grad:
When we think we have all the answers :albert: ... we read something ... :read: go ... :huh: :scratchhead: ... and off we go on running on a continue search for truth ... :innocent: :jogging:
May we never giver up searching, seeking, knocking, sighing and groaning ... for it not our Lord looking for such like ones ... :thumbsup:
May all of our hearts ... :bouncyhearts: ... including yours my brother ... :heartbeat: continue to seek to join together in fellowship and learning :grouphug: ... remaining soft and pliable :rose: and never hard and inflexible ... :strong:
So much to learn ... and all the time in the world to do so!! :thumbup:
Keep the faith my dear brother ... remain steadfast and unmoveable in the work of our Lord!
Your sis ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
Meant to sound encouraging not counselling ... I hope you know that ... :friends:;):whistle:
Good afternoon br. abe ... :hibye:
Isn't it amazing brother how we continue to GROW :rose: ... to learn ...!! :grad:
When we think we have all the answers :albert: ... we read something ... :read: go ... :huh: :scratchhead: ... and off we go on running on a continue search for truth ... :innocent: :jogging:
BR,
When I was a JW I did indeed think I had all the answers.
I am continually dismayed at my former self.
Since being disfellowshipped I have learned an enormous amount.
Those same people in the Kingdom Hall however, continue ro reproach and persecute me.
I have reached the point where I realize that it is they who need to be emancipated.
I think that peaceable collaboration is necessary for everyones spiritual advancement including my own.
Every single part of the body is absolutely necessary.
Thinking about this I look at the thread above and wonder about Fugitive1.
Perhaps he is sincerely looking for answers too?
In Christ
abe
I hope so too abe ... about fugitive1 I mean ... :thumbup:
We have a lot to learn from each other ... I guess one of the keys to the learning is trying not to be dogmatic nor pushy in our views ... for as you and me and others have found out ... our 'views' can be wrong the more we learn and grow ...
Talk later bro ... and may this special day be one of peace, :peace: joy :cheer: brotherhood, :grouphug: and reflection:thinking: for us all ... :thumbsup::hug:
Your sis in the faith ... BR :sheepy::bouncyhearts:
Hi JWHVACR:
If you believe that this "Man" is Jehovah, himself, then why would he even need help from another man? Remember this person is appalled and evidently is very concerned that no one would help him in his holy efforts. This doesn't seem to me to be a fitting description of the "awesome" power of the "The Most High",does it?
Fugitive1/Detroit Intellect
Fugitive1,
I was in bed reading my favorite book last night when I came across this scripture.
It immediately made me think of what you replied to JWHVACR.
Please notice what Jehovah is asking a man to do for him:
Ezekiel 22:1
And the word of Jehovah continued to occur to me, saying: 2 “And as for you, O son of man, will you judge, will you judge the bloodguilty city and certainly cause her to know all her detestable things?
Now please notice what Jehovah says a few verses later after he had asked the man to help him.
Ezekiel 22:30
“‘And I kept looking for a man from among them who would be repairing the stone wall and standing in the gap before me in behalf of the land, in order [for me] not to bring it to ruin; and I found no one.
This scripture does indeed make me rethink the things I have posted above.
It does not change my conviction however, that the profaned Christian temple needs to be restored!
and
Those held captive by the unrighteous deception need to be emancipated!
It is a very good idea to read Ezekiel Chapter 22 and understand what the man is being asked to do.
In Christ
abe
Fugitive1,
I have read through several threads which imply that a man called Donald Burney and his associates have a view about the one from Bozrah which might be based on the premise that Jehovah (or Jesus Christ) is not looking for any man to help them.
That premise seems to be flawed through examining Ezekiel Chapter 22.
If you know how to contact Donald or his associates please help them understand this also.
Thank you for initiating this discussion.
I have learned a great deal.
Jehovah and Jesus Christ really do want men to help them.
Imagine the reply Jehovah and Jesus Christ could give to Satan if they could find men to help them!
Imagine however, what Satan might say if Jehovah found that no man was willing to help him.
This issue is now keeping me awake at night.
Is Jehovah looking for a man, any man to step forward, to get up and help him tred the same winepress?
Micah 4:13
“Get up and thresh, O daughter of Zion; for your horn I shall change into iron, and your hoofs I shall change into copper, and you will certainly pulverize many peoples; and by a ban you will actually devote to Jehovah their unjust profit, and their resources to the [true] Lord of the whole earth.â€
In Christ
abe
"And I saw the heaven opened, and, look! a white horse. And the one seated upon it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. His eyes are a fiery flame, and upon his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, and he is arrayed with an outer garment sprinkled with blood, and the name he is called is The Word of God. Also, the armies that were in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty. And upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords." -- Revelation 19:11-16
To me, this scripture says it all, simply and plainly.:read:
Rez:siskiss:
Who does the winepress belong to?
Lamentations 1
15 All my powerful ones Jehovah has tossed aside from the midst of me.
He has called against me a meeting, in order to break my young men to pieces.
Jehovah has trodden the very winepress belonging to the virgin daughter of Judah.
16 Over these things I am weeping as a woman. My eye, my eye is running down with waters.
For a comforter has become far away from me, someone to refresh my soul.
My sons have become those laid desolate, for the enemy has put on great airs.
In Christ
abe
JWHVACR,
I recently found a reference to Bozrah which I do not understand.
The reference was in the NWT, Micah Chapter 2:12.
Micah 2:12
“‘I shall positively gather Jacob, all of you; I shall without fail collect the remaining ones of Israel together. In unity I shall set them, like a flock in the pen, like a drove in the midst of its pasture; they will be noisy with men.’
Here is what the footnote reference says:
“In the pen,†by a change of vowel pointing in agreement with TVg; M, “Bozrah.â€
Can you elaborate on the reference?
In Christ
abe
I recently found a reference to Bozrah which I do not understand.
Hi Abe;
You probably know that we used the Septuagint when translating.
We rendered this verse as:
"In the [time when] they are re-gathered, Jacob will be gathered along with the rest… for the remnants of Israel I’ll search. I’ll bring them together and return them, as sheep that have gone through hard times… they’ll jump away from the men, and then in the midst of their pasture, they will all live as one flock."
Hi again, Abe (still in El Paso, Texas).
Got up early this morning and did a bit more research. It appears as though the word BoZrah is sometimes translated as BoSer in the Greek text.
Anyhow, if it is the same city, Isaiah 34:5, 6 clarifies the reason why this name is used:
"For, My sword will then become drunk in the sky, and {Look!} upon the land of Edom it will fall… upon the people who’ve been judged for destruction. In Boser the sword of the Lord will be filled, with blood that has become thick, upon the fat of lambs, goats, and rams, which will serve as a sacrifice to God, when a great slaughter is brought upon Edom."
As I said, I'm here in a motel room and don't have my research materials at hand, so I could be wrong. But the reference seems to be about a destruction of a related people, and the city may just refer to their capital.
More when I get back.