Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Time for thinking caps I think ... ;):grad::albert:

I just noticed a 'discrepancy' in translations and am hoping for some clarification input ...

I will try to just put down the scriptures without commenting to see how you look at it first ... :love:

Rev. 22:14 ...

(NWT) Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates.

(Murdock) Blessed are they who do his commandments, that they may have a right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

(WNT) Blessed are those who wash their robes clean, that they may have a right to the Tree of Life, and may go through the gates into the city.

(GNB) Happy are those who wash their robes clean and so have the right to eat the fruit from the tree of life and to go through the gates into the city.

Now lets go to some other scriptures ... :read:

see no comments ... :P:whistle:

Rev. 22:2 ...

(ALT) in the middle of its open street. And the river from here and from there [fig., On each side of the river] [was] a tree of life, producing twelve fruits, according to each month [fig., monthly] yielding its fruits. And the leaves of the tree [are] for [the] healing of the nations.

(BBE) In the middle of its street. And on this side of the river and on that was the tree of life, having twelve sorts of fruits, giving its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree give life to the nations.

(NWT) down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations.

Now we go to Rev.2:7 ...

(ALT) 'The one having an ear, let him hear [or, pay attention to, and throughout book] what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To one overcoming, I will give to him to eat from the tree of life which is in [the] middle of the Paradise of My God.'

(EMTV) He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of My God." '

(Geneva) Let him that hath an eare, heare, what the Spirite saith vnto the Churches, To him that ouercommeth, will I giue to eate of the tree of life which is in the middes of the Paradise of God.

(KJV-1611) Hee that hath an eare, let him heare what the Spirit saith vnto the Churches: To him that ouercommeth will I giue to eate of the tree of life, which is in the middest of the Paradise of God.

So, now I am wondering ...:huh::confused:

Is there more than ONE tree or not ...? :dontknow:

Are these verses all referring to same tree/trees or are they different ...? :dontknow:

What do ya'll think ....??? :scratchhead::thinking:

Luv me ... :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

One tree - There is only one from who we can eat and have everlasting life.

This one testifies - "He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal"

One tree or perhaps more accurately a vine as he says- "I am the true vine".

Excellent question!

The problem is that the Bible doesn't say, "tree" or "TreeS," it says, "woods."

The scripture from which this is taken is Ezekiel 47:12, which reads (2001 - LXX): "And on both sides of the banks of the river, will grow trees bearing fruit that will never grow old, nor will they ever fail to bear fruit. From the beginning they will start doing this; for, from the Holy Place these waters will flow. And as these waters flow past them, they’ll produce fruit [to be eaten], and their leaves will all bring [good] health."

The word in both cases is xylon, which means "woodS." And the fact that they are on both sides of the river confirms the plural form

Again we come to the timeframe of the prophecy :

It is "the end" , that is the judgement time

Why judgement ?

because through the judgement the Kingdom authority is to be given to the "people of saints" Daniel 7 .

Other scriptures
Isaiah 49
11. And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.

Ezekiel 36
8. But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people Israel; for they are at hand to come.
---------------

woodS ??

Indeed , yes !

"your word is truth" !

Isaiah 61:

3. to appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them a garland for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
that they may be called trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, that he may be glorified.

4. And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

........this "way" the Kingdom "comes" on earth !

........in fact , they (the woodS ) are also "the Jew" of Zechariah 8:23 !

in Christ,
rus v.

Hi all ... it seems we have a variety of ideas so far ... :thinking::blush:;)

When I looked up the word for 'tree' I found the word you mentioned br. jim, but it added some of these definitions ...

G3586 ξύλον

xulon xoo'-lon

From another form of the base of G3582; timber (as fuel or material); by implication a stick, club or tree or other wooden article or substance: - staff, stocks, tree, wood.

So, it would appear that this word on its own is in the 'singular' maybe, and would depend on the context and what may come before it to show if it is 'plural' or not ...? :dontknow::confused:

Ah grammar ... gotta love it ... especially in another language ... :P

It would appear that possibly there are indeed many trees in Rev. 22:2 ...

(ALT) in the middle of its open street. And the river from here and from there [fig., On each side of the river] [was] a tree of life, producing twelve fruits, according to each month [fig., monthly] yielding its fruits. And the leaves of the tree [are] for [the] healing of the nations.

(Darby) In the midst of its street, and of the river, on this side and on that side, the tree of life, producing twelve fruits, in each month yielding its fruit; and the leaves of the tree for healing of the nations.

In reading over this verse it is amazing what new angles we can come to ponder about ... :thinking: :scratchhead:

For example, is each tree bearing DIFFERENT FRUIT ... that is ... since a tree bears fruit 'according to its kind' wouldn't it make sense that each tree has its own special fruit ...?

It would appear then that there are possibly 12 trees? 6 on each side?

Also interesting to think about is the meaning of the word for 'curing' or 'healing' ... :thinking:

G2322 θεραπεία

therapeia ther-ap-i'-ah

From G2323; attendance (specifically medical, that is, cure); figuratively and collectively domestics: - healing, household.

G2323 θεραπεύω

therapeuō ther-ap-yoo'-o

From the same as G2324; to wait upon menially, that is, (figuratively) to adore (God), or (specifically) to relieve (of disease): - cure, heal, worship.


I'm guessing that this word is maybe where we get 'therapy' from?

But on point though ...

What I find something of interest is that this has the meaning of 'domestics' ... is this tied in with the scripture at ... oh my ... :shocked: :whistle: Matt. 24:45 ...?

(CEV) Who are faithful and wise servants? Who are the ones the master will put in charge of giving the other servants their food supplies at the proper time?

(EMTV) "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master appointed over his household, to give them food in due season?

(New World Translation) "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

So, now ... here is where my head is going right now ... trying to make sense or connection ... but not sure if it is the RIGHT connections ...

What if these 'TREES' were the 'faithful and discreet slave' who are to feed the domestics (those who are cured/healed) at the proper time which is yet future ... possibly the time spoken of here in Revelation?

Is it 'possible' that these 'trees' are those that sit on the '12 thrones' helping our Lord ...?

For where do these trees get their water from ...?

Rev. 22:1 ...

(ASV) And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb,

So, would it then mean that these 'trees', each tree, work in conjunction with God and the Lamb?

Also, since it MAY be possible that each tree bears it own particular 'fruit' ... could that be a special gift or quality that each tree would have to help us grow ... sort of like 'fruitages' of the spirit?

I am totally writing this off the cuff as ideas are just flowing into my mind and I don't want to lose the gist ... :love:

Maybe I'll stop there for now ... because I'm probably waaay out in left field somewhere ... could someone help me find the ball ...? :juggle:

Luv to a sitting and thinking BR :sheepy::bouncyhearts:

Dear BR

And what about this scripture in Isaiah 61:

"To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified"

And in the same chapter these verses speak of these trees as separate from the Gentile believers in the LORD.

" 061:004 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
061:005 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
061:006 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves."

Does this not mean the apostles shall come and physically rule on this earth and heal the Earth as well as Mankind???:friends:

LOL friends - why do we need other trees other than Jesus? He is the source of life isn't he? Why would we want to eat from the apostles or any other men?

Jesus answers :

4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


in Christ,
rus virgil

Oops, you're right! The scripture at Ezekiel 47:7 says dendra (trees) and at 47:12 pan xylon (all wood - singular). The plural of wood is xyla (the Greek U can be pronounced as a U or a Y depending on its use). Note that xylophone comes from this word.

If you agree that the description of the Temple and the river described in Ezekiel are the same as of those in Revelation, then we must assume that they are treeS. It is also noteworthy that at Ezekiel 47:7 (LXX) the trees are describes as "all wood edible [fruit]," so they don't appear to be all of the same type (nor do they appear to be Jesus).

Why the differences? The Septuagint (from which I quoted) is a translation from Hebrew to Greek, and there is strong evidence that Revelation was originally written in Aramaic and translated to Greek. And if this is so, there are likely some translating errors (as in the book of Matthew).

My mistake with the letters stem from the fact that an N suffix in Greek often denotes PLURAL, and I was in a bit of a hurry with my last post. Sorry.

Hey Jim, no problem ... :friends: no need to apologize my bro ... :thumbup:

Hey anthony ... :hibye:

I totally understand the fact that we get our LIFE our HOPE and such from our Lord ... for isn't that why he came? :thumbsup:

However, is he a 'one man show' during his reign of peace ...?

I cannot help but think on such scriptures as ...

Matt. 19:28 ...

(BBE) And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that in the time when all things are made new, and the Son of man is seated in his glory, you who have come after me will be seated on twelve seats, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev. 2:26 ...

(ALT) 'And the one overcoming and the one keeping My works until the end, "I will give to him authority over the nations;

(BBE) He who overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him I will give rule over the nations,

(DRB) And he that shall overcome and keep my words unto the end, I will give him power over the nations.

Greek word for 'power', 'authority', and 'rule' ...

G1849 ἐξουσία

exousia ex-oo-see'-ah

From G1832 (in the sense of ability); privilege, that is, (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence: - authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.

Rev. 20:6 ...

(ASV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Greek word for 'reign' ...

G936 βασιλεύω

basileuō bas-il-yoo'-o

From G935; to rule (literally or figuratively): - king, reign.

G935 βασιλεύς

basileus bas-il-yooce'

Probably from G939 (through the notion of a foundation of power); a sovereign (abstractly, relatively or figuratively): - king.

G939 βάσις

basis bas'-ece

From βαίνω bainō (to walk); a pace (“base”), that is, (by implication) the foot: - foot.

So, with these scriptures in minds as to the possible setup of New Jerusalem in its 'authority' aspect ... is it not possible that these 'conquerors' might be the 'trees' spoken of here ...? :dontknow::thinking:

I find it kind of interesting, and am not sure that this isn't connected, in the fact that these ones 'judge the nations' ... when in fact hasn't that been done BEFORE the 1000 years? :dontknow:

BUT ...

If there are STILL wicked on the earth ... and those who HAVE been judged RIGHTEOUS are INSIDE New Jerusalem while they are WITHOUT ... then it could make sense couldn't it?

The word used for Greek word for nations is ...

G1484 ἔθνος

ethnos eth'-nos

Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

The LEAVES of these TREES were for the HEALING of the NATIONS were they not ...?

So, if those inside were ALREADY 'healed' ... then why would they need continuous curing ...

So, maybe this means something else for SOMEONE else ...?

Those OUTSIDE as is spoken of at Rev. 22:14,15 ...

(ASV)14 Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right to come to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.
15 Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.

Well, I guess I should stop there for now to give ya'll time to digest and sort through my ramblings ... :love: if indeed you did continue to read on ... :P:whistle::giverose:

I am pretty sure that there is a scripture :read: that says we will be able to go in and out of New Jerusalem ...? :scratchhead: perhaps to help teach these ones outside so that they too can come in ...? :dontknow::grouphug:

Luv to all, BR :sheepy::bouncyhearts:

Revelation 22:15
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.


To me sis this is why it is a "BIG" deal..

To run the race all the way to the gate and not get inside?

yes extreme gnashing of the teeth would be in order..
how woefull that would be.

it is the difference of walking freely on the face of the earth or being in general population in a prison..
something to be feared in my opionion.

they will not gain access until the rule ends and Satan is let loose as far as I can tell.
this is how they will actually surround the holy city.. because they are outside of it.


IT may be just sybolic but maybe not.
The farmers/ general people of old were actualy outside the gates of a walled city.

BR -

That these ones are said to be kings and judges doesn't imply that they are the source of life and healing.

Did you know that Adam was to be a ruler on the Earth?

Yet he was not a tree of life. Neither did he have life in himself because he died. Through this one came sickness and death.

When it comes to the Tree of Life - why desire to eat from anyone other than Jesus? Here or then?

Hi justin ...:hibye:

I think you are misunderstanding me and my intent perhaps ...? :giverose:

I am not in anyway seeking to undermine nor minimize our Lord's role in our present life or in our future one ... :)

However, in reading over the verse I started with I noticed a discrepancy of the word 'trees' ... and the conversation sort of went from there ... :giverose:

That being said ...

If indeed there more than one tree being spoken of here ... those on either side of the river ... then what do you think their purpose is ...? :dontknow:

Does not these verses say that the leaves are for the 'curing or healing of the nations' ...? :scratchhead:

And are these trees not different from the 'tree of life' that is standing in the middle of the strret or broadway as some translations say ...?:thinking:

And what kind of 'fruit' and for what 'purpose' would those of the nations eat from them ...? :dontknow:

ya gotta love the future don't ya ... for the questions that our wondering about it rends ... :love:

Luv ya bro ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

A couple of questions ... :confused::blush:

Are the trees mentioned in Revelation 22:2 that are on either side of the river on the OUTSIDE of the city BEFORE you go through the gates ... or INSIDE the city ...?

Also

Is there more than ONE TREE OF LIFE ...?

New Living Translation (©2007)

It flowed down the center of the main street. On each side of the river grew a tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, with a fresh crop each month. The leaves were used for medicine to heal the nations.

Any thoughts ...?

gotta go and hang out some clothes ...

me :sheepy: :bouncyhearts: