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Full Version: The Resurrection of the Righteous/Unrighteous-When?
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Hey willa ... I'm with you on the wait and see kind of thinking when it comes to 'knowing' what all the future will bring ...

I tend to think of Jesus' words when he said to his disciples in essence those famous words of a movie ... don't know the name ...

You can't handle the truth ... ! :P

... YET ...

Won't it be a glorious day when we will SEE, HEAR, TASTE, SMELL and FEEL all the rich and innumerable blessings, literal, physical, material, and spiritual from above ...!! :present:

Luv ya sis ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:


Hi Mavos Matt,

The firstfruits are Christ and the anointed. But the expression 'first' fruit implies that there are 2nd or 3rd or 4th fruits as well. Like a tree: In the spring, you have the first fruits and then the tree get more fruit as the days pass. I think there is alot of support to the notion of one group catching on quicker than the average christian.

I do think you may be correct about the faithful of old possibly being resurrected to heaven and then coming to the earth to the holy city. Therefore 2 resurrections for the faithful of old.

BR.. I do not think the thousand years will be a reign of peace necessarily. But just an interval where Satan isn't able to decieve. Christ will be ruling @ this time in an undercover kind of way and the light would be so bright that Satan's lies would hold no water. I think the thousand years is actually only like a watch, 3 1/2 years long. Then Satan gains strength again. And the war of Armaggedon is fought. And yes, the world of Satan And all his folowers are still here during that time, but this period where Satan can't decieve gives good hearted ones an opportunity tosee things more clearly.

I do think that the Rev. 22 scriptures are actually after the 'millenium' and into the paradise and yes the evil doers appear to be still on the earth.

Any thoughts?:eek:

BruisedReed Wrote:
Hi fugitive1 ...

Since you said this is of 'special interest' to you ... may I ask about why this is so ...?

Just curious is all ... :happyheart:

Christian love to you ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:


Hi Bruised Reed,

Well, after I lost my father in death a few years back, this is a topic that became close to my heart. I'd like to know as much as I can about it.:(

Also, I noticed the WTBTS made an interesting comment on the earthly resurrection occurring during the 1,000-year reign. On page 793 Volume 2 of the publication "Insight On The Scriptures," they state the resurrection and the emptying of the graves could take as much as 300 years into the thousand year reign period. They state in paragraph #1 on that page:

"...Since a yearly increase of three percent, compounded, doubles the number about every 24 years, the entire 20 billion could be resurrected before 300 years of Christ's Thousand Year Reign had elapsed, giving ample time for training and judging the resurrected ones without disrupting harmony and order on earth."

I was wondering, if this were true wouldn't this mean those individuals who were resurrected last, could not get the full 1,000 years of peace from Satan's world, because over 300 years would have already been used up before they were resurrected?

And, I welcome any thoughts on the topic. Thanks!

Fugitive1/Detroit Intellect

Hey fugitive1 ... :hibye:

So sorry to hear about your dad ... :( My parents are not well either and I expect to hear such news myself in the not too distant future ... but that will be the only time they will speak to me since 'I left the truth' don't ya know ... :(

You know, when it came to the resurrection idea you cited I used to think the very same thing!!:thumbup:

It just didn't seem FAIR to me that those ones wouldn't get the WHOLE benefit of the 1000 years ... :confused:

I am so thankful now that I have shed some of the doctrines that were 'man-made' and made on human thinking and reasoning and presented as facts and a fait accompli as they say ... :bow:

When it comes to the idea of a resurrection I think the Bible speaks about TWO kinds as has been mentioned I think ...

A spiritual kind ... and a literal one ...

As i sit here trying to think of what to say all I can come up with is this kind of reasoning ... :giverose:

For a certainty we do not know what the future will hold in every aspect of the resurrection except that it WILL occur ... and that thought alone gives us much hope :friends:and comfort doesn't it!! :hug:

I cannot help but think of the resurrections that the Bible speaks about that we have as a sort 'guide' perhaps ...? :dontknow:

Not much fanfare or time had to happen ... it was just done ...

In Lazurus' case Jesus prayed :pray: and called out his name and voila, out he came! :cheer:

It would seem this 'hearing of Jesus' voice is the 'key' that opens the door of death to life isn't it!!

John 5:28,29a ...


(Amplified Bible) 28Do not be surprised and wonder at this, for the time is coming when all those who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, 29And they shall come out-

At the time of the resurrection our Lord and Redeemer will be second only to his heavenly Father ... his powers beyond compare ...

Would it make sense for him to have to speak to every individual who died individually in order for them to 'hear his voice' ...? :dontknow:

Indeed would it even make sense for 'inanimate dust' to 'hear' his voice either ...? :huh:

Why then cannot ALL those in the memorial tombs come out at once, does not our Lord already know who did what, is it not recorded in the book, thus letting him know who were in the 'memorial tombs' deserving of a resurrection ...? :read:

If our Father knows what we are thinking even before we think it, then how difficult would it be for his son to know what has already been done?

So, could not all those asleep 'hear his voice' at the SAME TIME to 'come out' ... could they not all 'hear his voice' as to 'what' judgment they were to have at the SAME TIME as well ...?

With God EVERYTHING is possible, and since he gives such power to his Son during his reign of peace, then is this outside the realm of possibilty?

With all the complexities involved, and yet for Jesus not so complex at all if all he has to do is raise and voice and speak, ;) I truly think there is much we do not know or cannot know ... :blush:

Not sure if any of this helps ... :love: but it might start some stew pot thinking ... :chef::thinking:

Luv BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

Fugitive1 Wrote:
Hi All,

I wanted to open this particular bible discussion up about a question I’ve had for some time, taken from Acts 24:15. I am sure you are all very familiar with this verse, as it has been cited oftentimes at the kingdom hall. It states:

“15 and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15)

At the kingdom hall, I’ve have heard the WTBTS and the Jehovah’s Witnesses say this resurrection would be an earthly one, that will occur during the one-thousand year reign of Christ. I take it most of you feel the same way. My question on this is,

How can we prove it will take a thousand years to empty the graves, based on what the bible actually says on the topic? In other words, does the bible actually teach this? (I’ve provided below relevant bible texts that I believe, actually speak on this subject.)


Okay fudge sweetie, I'll take a crack at the bat.:D BTW....so sorry for the loss of your father:( Hope you'll find comfort from this discussion.:giverose:

Laying all the complicated WT teachings aside, I've come to appreciate that the first resurrection will include many more besides the 144,000 who are initially raised to heaven. There are those like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who are said to be living to our Father. I also have come to believe that "first" is not speaking of timing as if it was a singular event. But rather it is the "first" in a qualitative sense. In other words: first = the righteous

"As regards the resurrection of the dead, did YOU not read what was spoken to YOU by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob’? He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living." -- Matthew 22:31-32

"But that the dead are raised up even Moses disclosed, in the account about the thornbush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.”" -- Luke 20:37-38

So, when speaking about the dead standing before the Great White Throne, it would never in my mind include the faithful men and women of old who are living to God. It says that it is "the dead" (not living to God) standing there for judgment.

As for timing of the Great White Throne judgment, it might likely be after the first resurrection and after our Father has put into place His means of bringing mankind to righteousness -- namely, the New Jerusalem with its trees of life and the leaves for the healing of the nations.

If we try to put all of Revelation in chronological order (like we linear thinkers love to do) we can get mighty confused as to the timing of events. Sometimes things are stated from one view and then another passage gives us the same event from a different perspective. Think of it as building a three-dimensional puzzle -- it goes up and down as well as sideways.

Example: the creation account. In Genesis chapter one we get an all over picture of the order of creation, including the first human pair. Chapter two zooms in on a particular aspect of the creation of man. For some "linear thinkers" this is talking about two "different" creations.

Many of the events in Revelation are taking place simultaneously. Some things happening on earth and others in heaven. It means leaving "linear" thinking and going for "global" or "packet" thought.

The Great White Throne scenario is an over view of something that is taking place from the time that the human political machine is crushed and the kingdom rule by our lord Jesus begins on earth all the way to the point where it "fills the whole earth" and accomplishes the bringing to life those "dead" who do good deeds and gain entry to the New Jerusalem to partake of the trees of life. Here's how Daniel puts it:

"You kept on looking until a stone was cut out not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of molded clay and crushed them. At that time the iron, the molded clay, the copper, the silver and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that no trace at all was found of them. And as for the stone that struck the image, it became a large mountain and filled the whole earth." -- Daniel 2:34-35

"“And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."" -- Daniel 2:44

I think this scripture you've quoted here fits very well in this picture of human recovery.

Quote:
“And Jehovah of armies will certainly make for all the peoples, in this mountain, a banquet of well-oiled dishes, a banquet of [wine kept on] the dregs, of well-oiled dishes filled with marrow, of [wine kept on] the dregs, filtered. 7 And in this mountain he will certainly swallow up the face of the envelopment that is enveloping over all the peoples, and the woven work that is interwoven upon all the nations. 8 He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken [it].” (Isaiah 25:6-8)


More could be said regarding these things but this post would become overlong. Perhaps more later.

love,:siskiss:
Rez

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