Has anyone else here studied or read anything by or about the Puritans?
I recently studied them, and I think the Puritans are one of the greatest expressions of biblical Christianity the world has ever known. You may not agree with all their teachings. But the Puritans sought to reform the Church of England from within by purifying it from Catholic superstition and tradition via a return to Scripture. When that failed, and they were kicked out of the Anglican Church, they had to form their own congregations. Eventually, because of persecution, they founded the first settlement in America. I love their stress on personal holiness and on the sovereignty of God.
Any thoughts?
Has anyone else here studied or read anything by or about the Puritans?
I recently studied them, and I think the Puritans are one of the greatest expressions of biblical Christianity the world has ever known. You may not agree with all their teachings. But the Puritans sought to reform the Church of England from within by purifying it from Catholic superstition and tradition via a return to Scripture. When that failed, and they were kicked out of the Anglican Church, they had to form their own congregations. Eventually, because of persecution, they founded the first settlement in America. I love their stress on personal holiness and on the sovereignty of God.
Any thoughts?
what you say is true, o plucky one. :D i also recall that [because they were a ReLiGiOn] they were behind the salem witch hunts, too, weren't they? :whistle:
what you say is true, o plucky one. :D i also recall that [because they were a ReLiGiOn] they were behind the salem witch hunts, too, weren't they? :whistle:
Yes, but I think it was only the North American Puritan/Pilgrims that did that. My studies were more focused on the English Puritans, and even then it focused on Puritan Pastors and Theologians. Every movement has it's flaws and imperfections, as it is made up of imperfect people. For example, many, though not all, Puritans were Paedobaptists (they baptized babies). There were a few (like John Bunyan famous for the story Pilgrim's Progress) who were Credobaptists (baptized believers).
I have a book that is a collection of their prayers. It's quite good actually. There has been much renewed interest and republication of puritan works. Most have been published through Banner of Truth Trust. There is a book out there called "Meet the Puritans". It's got a few pages of biography on each one of the more famous puritans and a list of all current works in publication today.
Yes, no matter how well a religion starts out, it immediately starts to devolve.
Yes, no matter how well a religion starts out, it immediately starts to devolve.
However, in many cases, there is no need for us to reinvent the wheel so to speak. We can learn many things, both good and bad, from almost all forms of Christianity.
There can be this tendency to say, "This group did this bad thing." or "This group believed this thing which I don't like." Then we go and throw the baby out with the bath water and refuse to learn anything from them.
Perhaps we should not be so quick to emphasize the bad, before extracting the good.:dontknow:
William Brown, an English M.P. 1887 - 1960 had some interesting things to say about 'organizations' of any sorts.
Whether the organization be political, religious or social is immaterial to my present argument. The point is that, the idea having embodied itself in organization, the organization then proceeds gradually to slay the idea which gave it birth... In the case of a religious organization, it's message will crystallize into a creed.
Before long, the principal concern of the church will be to sustain itself as an organization. To this end, any departure from the creed must be controverted and, if necessary suppressed as heresy. In a few score or few hundred years what was conceived as a vehicle of a new and higher truth has become a prison for the souls of men.
...
The organization develops a self interest which has no connection with, and becomes inimical to the idea with which it began. Now the thing which permits this process of diversion to take place, so that the organization comes to stand for the opposite of the idea which originally inspired it, is the tendency of men and women to become Prisoners of the Organization, instead of being Servants of the Spirit... the organization becomes ..a channel through which particular
interests must be served.
And Ironically
Beware of "organization" It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word to-day..
(Charles Taze Russell - Watchtower 1895 p 216 )
Unfortunately Russell was to change. And the rest, as they say, is history.
Isn't it wonderfull and simple, how Jesus explained it in Matthew chapter 22 versus 32-40 to find out what is right or wrong without religious leaders dogmas :read:
32: I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33: And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
34: But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35: Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38: This is the first and great commandment.
39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
great post, talkactive! :thumbup: thanks for that. :ok:
my favorite line:
:devil: :devil: :devil: The organization develops a self interest which has no connection with, and becomes inimical to [the enemy of], the idea with which it began. :devil: :devil: :devil:
I don't think the Puritan's were an organization per say. It was a religious movement, which is far different from an official organization. They were part of an organization, namely the Anglican Church. But they attempted to reform that organization, and ultimately failed from a human standpoint.
I don't think the Puritan's were an organization per se. It was a religious movement, which is far different from an official organization. They were part of an organization, namely the Anglican Church. But they attempted to reform that organization, and ultimately failed from a human standpoint.
hi, maverick. :D (isn't that what gus always called you?) nobody is trying to steal your joy in having found what you obviously consider worthy role models. it goes almost without saying that any role models we choose will be unable to perfectly measure up to the christ, our ultimate role model. there were and are many individuals in many movements who are devout, sincere, zealous, and all the rest. it is perfectly fine to adopt the attitude, as paul expressed it: "become imitators of me, even as i am of the christ."
it's good to have you back here, mavos. :drinking:
I don't think the Puritan's were an organization per se. It was a religious movement, which is far different from an official organization. They were part of an organization, namely the Anglican Church. But they attempted to reform that organization, and ultimately failed from a human standpoint.
hi, maverick. :D (isn't that what gus always called you?) nobody is trying to steal your joy in having found what you obviously consider worthy role models. it goes almost without saying that any role models we choose will be unable to perfectly measure up to the christ, our ultimate role model. there were and are many individuals in many movements who are devout, sincere, zealous, and all the rest. it is perfectly fine to adopt the attitude, as paul expressed it: "become imitators of me, even as i am of the christ."
it's good to have you back here, mavos. :drinking:
Indeed. We have to defiantly watch out for partisan Christianity. Another "role model" of mine said this:
"There is no soul living who holds more firmly to the doctrines of grace than I do, and if any man asks me whether I am ashamed to be called a Calvinist, I answer—I wish to be called nothing but a Christian; but if you ask me, do I hold the doctrinal views which were held by John Calvin, I reply, I do in the main hold them, and rejoice to avow it. But far be it from me even to imagine that Zion contains none but Calvinistic Christians within her walls, or that there are none saved who do not hold our views." - Charles Haddon Spurgeon
Did they not also forbid the celebration of Christmas because of its pagan origins?
Warm Christian Love
Bangalore
Hi Mavos & welcome back, ( though I joined too late to remember you)
I've studied the Puritans only as far as our American History studies. An amazing group of Christians we Americans owe much to.
In time I hope to read more about them.
As to their burning people at the stake, well I think it was the usual punishment at the time. Stoning, hanging on a tree/cross, beheading, hanging, fireing squad,we humans seem to come up with different ways for different times, to end a life.I do not judge people for how they lawfully administered judgement in times past. I'm sure there are pleanty of things we will be thought crude & barbaric for in the years to come.
The burning of witches was done , not just here in the USA, but all over Europe at the time. I doubt any of us with out the scientific knowledge we have now, would better understand what was happening and would probably react much the same .It is now thought these outbreaks of seeing witches were caused by ergot poisoning. Truely a horrible experience for both the poisened, accused, & those who had the burden of judging what was happening.
I love the quote by Spurgeon, he's on my reading list.
Looking forward to more of your posts.
Blithe
Did they not also forbid the celebration of Christmas because of its pagan origins?
Warm Christian Love
Bangalore
I don't think it was necessarily because of the Pagan roots, but because of the lewd practices, carousing, and debauchery that were common during "Christmas" practices up until the 19th century.
Did they not also forbid the celebration of Christmas because of its pagan origins?
Warm Christian Love
Bangalore
I don't think it was necessarily because of the Pagan roots, but because of the lewd practices, carousing, and debauchery that were common during "Christmas" practices up until the 19th century.
You seem to be correct. I found this article which indicates the same.
Concord & Christmas: Regardeth the Day
-- Or Not
Warm Christian Love
Bangalore
An excerpt from the above mentioned article.
Thirdly and of major importance to Puritans, Christmas was mostly devoid of devotion to Christ and more dedicated to gluttony, drink, sin, misrule (social order change for a day), dance, gaming, weapons firing and mummery (disguise, begging of food and drink under threat of violence). The festivities sometimes lasted two months but often twelve days as a year-end respite from work and at a time of abundant food/drink stocks for winter. New World examples of such activities were prevalent in the Anglican dominated colonies of New York and Virginia.
Warm Christian Love
Bangalore