Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

I know that most have formed their opinions of what the future holds for righteous mankind. As for me; I'm still searching the scriptures. And during some editing in the book of Ezekiel, I found the following (at Ezekiel 42:14), concerning the conduct of Priests when they enter the "Holy Place" of the Temple that Ezekiel saw in a vision:

‘No one can enter except for the Priests, and they cannot leave the Holy Place, to go to the outer courtyard, so these who are leading will always be holy. Nor may anyone touch the garments they wear, for they are also most holy. So, when touching the people they must wear other clothes.’

Since, according to the Law, these Priests had to be 'anointed,' they appear to picture a special group of people who will have direct access between heaven (the Holy Place) and earth. Yet, they are obviously not the majority, and they obviously have direct contact with humans, for whom they serve as Priests.

Any thoughts?

Hey JIm,
I do have athought but don't recall the scripture.

IT goes something like " they will come and go from the holy city as they please."

I think these are in fact the ones who will not be harmed by the second test of mankind.

Yep, that sounds about right. But then, there are those who won't be able to do this.

Hiya JWH :hibye: :hug: What is this temple? Animals are still sacrificed, Eze 43:18 And He said to me, Son of man, so says the Lord Jehovah: These are the statutes of the altar in the day of its being made to offer on it burnt offerings, and to sprinkle on it blood. :read: :confused: Any ideas? Sister LOWlee

I wish that I knew. The scripture hasn't been fulfilled yet, so it must be future. But animal offerings? I don't think so... good question.

Hey Jim :wave:

I've been trying to sort this out for a few years now. Dont' have all the answers by any means, but here is what I figure at this point. (need more puzzle pieces):help:

Please forgive me if I have problems sorting out my thoughts. This is very complex (for me):D

Starting with the priesthood.

The sons of Aaron, from which group the high priest was selected, were of the tribe of Levi. They were separate from the Levites in that they (the Aaronic priests) were the only ones to serve within the Holy of the temple. Only the high priest could enter the Most Holy, and only once a year on atonement day. The Levitical priests served in the inner courtyard which contained the Altar of sacrifice as well as the Basin.

The Levites were an interesting group. They were assigned to 48 cities with pasture grounds but they had no other land allotment, whereas the rest of the nation of Israel did have land inheritance.

The Levites were helpers at the Temple, assisting the Aaronic priesthood in preparing the animal sacrifices, etc. This they did in rotation. After their stint at the Temple they returned home where they had other duties. An important responsibility of Levites was to teach the Law to the people.

Here is an example of this teaching work during the reign of David:

"And in the third year of his reigning he sent for his princes, namely, Ben-ha′il and O·ba·di′ah and Zech·a·ri′ah and Ne·than′el and Mi·cai′ah, to teach in the cities of Judah, and with them the Levites, She·mai′ah and Neth·a·ni′ah and Zeb·a·di′ah and As′a·hel and She·mir′a·moth and Je·hon′a·than and Ad·o·ni′jah and To·bi′jah and Tob-ad·o·ni′jah the Levites, and with them E·lish′a·ma and Je·ho′ram the priests. And they began teaching in Judah, and with them there was the book of Jehovah’s law; and they kept going around through all the cities of Judah and teaching among the people." -- 2 Chronicles 17:7-9

When Malachi was written this complaint was lodged by Yahweh against the Levites for their failure to carry out this duty faithfully:

“Look! I am rebuking on YOUR account the [sown] seed, and I will scatter dung upon YOUR faces, the dung of YOUR festivals; and someone will actually carry YOU away to it. And YOU will have to know that I have sent to YOU this commandment, in order that my covenant with Le′vi may continue,” Jehovah of armies has said. “As for my covenant, it proved to be with him, [one] of life and of peace, and I kept giving them to him, with fear. And he continued fearing me; yes, because of my name he himself was struck with terror. The very law of truth proved to be in his mouth, and there was no unrighteousness to be found on his lips. In peace and in uprightness he walked with me, and many were those whom he turned back from error. For the lips of a priest are the ones that should keep knowledge, and [the] law is what people should seek from his mouth; for he is the messenger of Jehovah of armies. “But YOU men—YOU have turned aside from the way. YOU have caused many to stumble in the law. YOU have ruined the covenant of Le′vi,” Jehovah of armies has said. “And I also, for my part, shall certainly make YOU to be despised and low to all the people, according as YOU were not keeping my ways, but were showing partiality in the law.” -- Malachi 2:3-9

Sorry to be rambling on:redface:

In Ezekiel 44, Yahweh chastises the unfaithful Levites for leading the people into idolatry:

"And they will not approach to me to act as priest to me or to approach to any holy things of mine, to the most holy things, and they must bear their humiliation and their detestable things that they did. And I shall certainly make them caretakers of the obligation of the House, as regards all its service and as regards all that should be done in it.’" -- Ezekiel 44:13-14

They would not be allowed to teach. The sons of Zadok who had been faithful would be the ones to stand before Yahweh to present the sacrifices:

"And as for the Levitical priests, the sons of Za′dok, who took care of the obligation of my sanctuary when the sons of Israel wandered away from me, they themselves will come near to me to minister to me, and they must stand before me to present to me fat and the blood,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘They are the ones that will come into my sanctuary, and they themselves will come near to my table to minister to me, and they must take care of the obligation to me." -- Ezekiel 44:15-16

I'm thinking that these "sons of Zadok" may well represent those to whom Jesus made this promise:

“‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine. Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’" -- Revelation 3:12-13

Is this saying that there will be those belonging to Christ who, once they are a permanent part of God's temple, will never leave the New Jerusalem? Are they a part of the New Jerusalem before it descends from heaven to dwell with mankind? That would make sense to me.

And the Levites, would they be a much larger group who could go in and out of the holy city in order to teach and minister to the people yet outside? I find these scriptures interesting in this regard.

"And its gates will not be closed at all by day, for night will not exist there. And they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it; only those written in the Lamb’s scroll of life [will]." -- Revelation 21:25-27

"Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie." -- Revelation 22:14-15

I know that the WT teaches that the NJ stays in heaven and simply "turns its attention to the earth", but that's not what the scriptures say. In three different places it talks about the New Jerusalem "coming down out of heaven".

And why would the city have gates if no one was able to go in and out? According to the scriptures a person would have to have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb in order to gain entrance.

From all this I'm deducing that there is a relatively small group that will serve in a permanent capacity in that city -- fixtures, as it were. There appears to be a much larger group who, having washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, will be able to enter the city by its gates.

". . .at the gates twelve angels, and names were inscribed which are those of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. . ." -- Revelation 21:12

Since the gates are inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel, I'm thinking that all those who enter will be part of Israel, either those natural Israelites who have accepted Christ or those who have been "grafted in", as in Romans 8 and Ezekiel 47:21.

Since the leaves of the trees/wood of life in the city can only be approached by those who have washed their robes, it seems logical that they carry out the "healing of the nations" outside the city gates. Wouldn't this correspond to the temple visions of Ezekiel where the river runs out of the sanctuary and heals even the dead sea?

Jes musin',:P

Rez

Hi sis Lowlee:)

I'm thinking that Ezekiel's prophesy mentions animal sacrifices to emphasize the need for sacrifice. To say at that time that Jesus would fulfill that need may have been more than the average Israelite would be able to comprehend.

Perhaps now that we have that wonderful dissertation on the temple and its sacrifices in the book of Hebrews with its explanation of how Jesus was sacrificed once for all time, we can better understand what Ezekiel prophesied.

Just a thoughty ::2cents:

Rez:siskiss:

Good, well-thought-out and accurate reply. I agree.

The reason why I brought this up, is because many question whether some will have access to heaven and Jehovah, and whether there will still be life on earth. This scripture seems to answer those questions.

Also, since they are "the anointed" Priests, it does seem appropriate to speak of a special group as "the anointed."

I guess the only question I have is: are they called "the anointed" now, or after their resurrection?:confused:

When I read about New Jerusalem I get a mental picture of a conduit between heaven and earth....some sort of a connecting portal.

The temple prophesy in Ezekiel talks of the priests changing their garments when going in or out (sacred garments and street cloths) I wonder if this may have reference of a change of nature that may occur at the gates of the New Jerusalem. Like....outside the gates = flesh and blood(or bones). And inside the gates = spirit bodies.:whistle:

Just as angels could travel between dimensions is it possible that those with white robes will be able to do the same?:huh:

Do you think this scripture has any relevance to this possibility?

"However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. But when [this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and] this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: “Death is swallowed up forever.” “Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?” The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law. But thanks to God, for he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!" -- 1 Corinthians 15:50-57

...more little bits,
Rez:siskiss:

You're asking a tough question. If those with "white robes" are the Priests, the answer is an obvious yes.

As for the scripture at 1 Corinthians 15; the WTS has used it to speak of the "anointed." But, I don't think that they understand this scripture too well, considering what Jesus said about the "sheep" at Matthew 25:34. That's why I raised the question about its meaning in a previous post.

I really haven't sorted that all out yet. Workin' on it. When I run into problems and my thinking hits a dead end, I just back off and wait till I get another piece of the puzzle. Keeping all the various groups in Revelation is quite a challenge. My last post was really just the nebulous rambling or an unstable mind....:funnyface:

Rez,

This is a very interesting thought.

If there is going to be 12 thrones where the judges sit to judge the tweleve tribes of Israel and all the resurrected ones then will they approach the fleshly people as spirit creatures or as fleshly kings and priests.

I think these last chapters in Ezekiel are in reference to the future temple which comes about in the re-creation. These same chapters speak to the iniquities of the present (its immediately previous temple). The temple that is present when Jesus Christ returns. The Christian Temple.

The same temple referred to in the last chapter of Isaiah?

Isaiah 66:6
There is a sound of uproar out of the city, a sound out of the temple! It is the sound of Jehovah repaying what is deserved to his enemies.

Hopefully JWVACR will bring up the kings and their carcasses when he reaches the next chapter.


In Christ

abe

Once again... good question! And it ties well into SW's comment.

I've always thought that, "the anointed" are selected by God in their resurrection, and I'm not sure that I want to leave that idea yet. HOWEVER...

The "anointed" Priests (those of the families of Moses and Aaron) were not anointed by God, but by MEN (see Exodus 28:37, as an example). So, the unfaithful priests of Israel during the time of EzekiEl had not been anointed to their positions by God. However, they were ANOINTED PRIESTS!

Throughout the book of EzekiEl (and other Prophets), the false prophets and priests were first in line when it came to being destroyed by the Babylonians. And since the things prophesied toward the end of the book of EzekiEl have never been fulfilled, we must assume that the prophecies are of a still-future time.

So, who are the false prophets and priests today? They appear to be all those who claim to be "chosen" or "anointed" by God, but are misleading the people... not leading them toward honesty, justice, and more moral lives. For this reason, few should seek such an exalted position, for their dogmatic conclusions may condemn them.

Now, if the above proves to be true, then the faithful Priests mention in EzekiEl 42, are chosen FROM AMONG those who have been anointed by men to such a position, but have proven faithful to Jehovah.

And while all of this seems to make sense according to the Prophecy, Revelation 7 speaks of 144,000 who are chosen FROM "Israel," and (from Revelation 14) seem to be these Priests who have access to heaven. So, the answers (as always) are unclear, and left to the foolish to draw their dogmatic conclusions.

Res and JWHVACR,

I think the sealing refferred to in Revelation Chapter 7 might give more understanding about how the "anointed" become "chosen anointed". I think there is evidence in the bible which indicates this will happen before their ressurection (gathering).


Revelation 7
1 After this I saw four angels standing upon the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow upon the earth or upon the sea or upon any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrising, having a seal of [the] living God; and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”

This scripture gives an opportunity for everyone to recognize the time when this has been achieved.

If we perceive when the four winds have been released then we can get a good idea whether the last anointed one has been sealed. (approved).

I hope you agree that this would be a milestone event worth our consideration.

Jeremiah 23:19-20
Look! The windstorm of Jehovah, rage itself, will certainly go forth, even a whirling tempest. Upon the head of the wicked ones it will whirl itself. 20 The anger of Jehovah will not turn back until he will have carried out and until he will have made the ideas of his heart come true. In the final part of the days YOU people will give YOUR consideration to it with understanding.

Jeremiah 25:32
“This is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘Look! A calamity is going forth from nation to nation, and a great tempest itself will be roused up from the remotest parts of the earth.

So far in the last several months I have indeed seen enormous calamities going forth from nation to nation all around the earth.

I do find myself giving consideration to it.

Financial Calamities
Earthquake calamities
Tsunami Calamities
Mass Fish kills
Flood calamities
Drought calamities
Disease calamities
Conflict calamities
and plenty of riots.

If the trend continues I will eventually reach the point where I might say with confidence that the milestone has been reached.

Has "the windstorm" been released?

Are you giving your consideration to it?



In Christ

abe

Abe, you asked:

This kinda touches on my pondering too. Perhaps in my efforts to answer your questions I may put some more of the puzzle together for myself.

In ancient times judging took place at the city gates. Now the wall of the New Jerusalem has twelve gates; one for every tribe of Israel. The foundation stones of the wall of the city are named for the twelve apostles of the lamb. There is an angel at each gate.

I'm not sure if the words in the following two scriptures are addressed to "the twelve" or to a wider group of disciples. My inclination is, is that it is to "the twelve", which would come to include Mathias as a replacement for Judas Iscariot. That would make a judge at each of the city's gates.

"Then Peter said to him in reply: “Look! We have left all things and followed you; what actually will there be for us?” Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel". -- Matthew 19:28

“However, YOU are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel." -- Luke 22:28-30

Since all those who believe him that sent Jesus are not judged then they would be part of the first resurrection over whom the second death has no authority.

"Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life." -- John 5:24

"Therefore those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation." -- Romans 8:1

So, all these would be issued a white robe and a gate-pass (I'm speaking in modern terms). The angels would let them in (contrary with what happened with Adam and Eve, where the way back to paradise was barred by angels).

Since the city is itself the bride of Christ, the members would not go out as per the scripture at Revelation 3:12. The other members of Christ's body would be Levitical priests and would go in and out of the city, bringing the instruction to the people outside who hadn't yet washed their robes.

Here is how I see the judgment taking place:

"And the city has no need of the sun nor of the moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God lighted it up, and its lamp was the Lamb. And the nations will walk by means of its light..." -- Revelation 21:23-24

"Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”" -- John 3:19-21

Does this not sound like good hearts will come to the city to be judged? If found true, they would get their white robes and be allowed by the angel at the gate to pass into the city to eat of the trees of life.

"Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates." -- Revelation 22:14

"But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it; only those written in the Lamb’s scroll of life [will]." -- Revelation 21:27

Anyway, Abe, that's just a smattering of thoughts. I have more but will save them for another post....somewhere:P

cheers,
rez:siskiss:(holy kiss)