Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi BB!
I;m glad to see that you believe this, because I share the same belief, but I never knew quite how to express it. I truly believe the HS taught it to me. I keep going back to the way Jesus was after his resurection and for 40 days after that. He proved he was flesh, but he was more then that! He had full control of his body and could transport himself and pass through solid mater, and change his appearance.
When he ascended to the Father he disappeared in a cloud.
Christ was indeed the first of these "New Creations" Not physical like we are now and not pneumatical like the angles either. Something new!

Part of the problem is the false idea that Heaven is a place, its is not. Its is a state, another dimension. False religion fosters the idea of going to Heaven, and becoming like the angles, or to Hell and becoming like a Demon. The Hebrews never had these ideas.
The WTS promotes the idea that only 144K will attain "Heavenly" life.
This is just a modification of the conventional Christendom teaching. This suits their elitist teaching that the FDS are kings over the Earthy Christians.
The way I see it, all true Christians will be changed to a New Creation and have spiritual/physical bodies like Jesus does and will meet him "in the air", not in Heaven like the angles. At first, we will be right here on Earth ruling as Kings over the resurected unrighteous until they too are changed. After eons of time we could be anywhere.
We can only speculate how this will take place, but Jesus proved it is possible, its our birthright. :thumbup:

It always amazes me to see churchoids stretch their imagination FAR past the breaking point to prop up their church dogma!

"The Same Jesus" is referring to the Person- not to the form.

To imply that Jesus is a Zombie (enlivened bloodless human corpse) in the realm of spirit beings- his God and the angels- is one of the very funniest...altho I seriously doubt it is funny to Christ.

If you want to slander him...it's YOUR call, with consequences...

[repulsive image deleted by admin. team member]

Christ is the "exact RELECTION" of God...is THIS that reflection?

(Rhetorical)

Howdy Mad.

Your style in my opinion is like a bad joke...( a joke that is not readily perceived or even taken as was intended). Please consider how your "bad joke(s) may really turn people off. First impression(s) via graphic art may (most often) prevent ones mind from "getting" your reasoning on a matter. Please take care so as not to offend. Our Master, Jesus Christ was most interested in drawing people...he said "come to me"; his style did not to push away. (This discussion boards intent is ,imo, to encourage complete faith in our Shepherd Jesus Christ...if I am mistaken, this is not a place for me.)

:coffeeread:

gogh

Good morning bro "mad":

I was just wondering what happened to you, so just logged on and what do i find? :shocked::shocked::shocked:

Please do me/us a big favor and delete that. This old lady would greatly appreciate it!

Thanx, sis.

Don't you realize that the Dogma is Infinitely fouler than that cartoon?
Those people REALLY teach that about Christ????

Hi "mad":

Never mind coz it's already gone, but pleeze leave your "cartoons" for you own website.

Thank you.:giverose:
sis
p.s. so sorry admin; i'll get the bucket!

Mad.

Re: "Those people REALLY teach that about Christ????

This is the here and know. This minute. This second. Do you really think you are informing some of what others teach, if so for what purpose?

Please try and draw ones to Jesus Christ. Please consider the request(s) of others. Particularly sis LLEE. You, imo, are being given the dignity of removing what you have posted (the graphic) yourself. Does it have to be done for you?

:coffeeread:

Hi Peeps!
Our faith has already elevated us to the level of brothers and sisters of Jesus. This alone is wonderful to contemplate, but imagine when we are "changed" into a new creation! Then we will be like Christ is.
The only evidence we have as to what that means, is to read the accounts about him during the 40 days before he ascended and disappeared. :cheer:
This is what we should be fucusing on. Not false religious dogma.

Hi Wayne,

Is that your answer, because it's part of 'the standard prepackaged dogma'?

That, and another terabyte of what you consider "proof", which as I said I no longer cared about, just a genuine answer to the question.

Is there no thought outside the box?

Ah! I guess not, for now comes the not-so-veiled condemnation of those who see the scriptures different from the interpretation of those in 'the standard prepackaged dogma' box.


"two lepta"

LTA,
John

Yep inside the box is good. Outside the box is bad.

If that box is Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone!!!

Outside the box there are cults and ism's galore.

There are more Jesus' than you can shake a stick at outside the box. WT Jesus = Michael, Morman Jesus = Lucifers Brother, Islam Jesus = a Prophet,Buddhist Jesus = a historical figure,Scientology Jesus = just another nice guy,Judaism Jesus = just a good person, and so on and so on.

There are essentially 2 religions in the world.

A. Those who have a Saviour and B. Those who are trying to save themselves.

Salvation is through " God the Son " those who don't have this Jesus as their Saviour fall into B.

The Gospel is as Paul puts it " 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.


3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received:


that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.

So the "good news" is the death (for our sins)according to the OT and the burial and rose the 3rd day according to the OT.And all these guys say HIM!

This is what we call " The person and the work of the Lord Jesus Christ ".

His physical resurrection was proof of who He is " God the Son ".

Only God knows and controls the future.

He said: 19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

and you know what HE DID IT!!!

( It was easy after all He created " ALL THINGS " )

Who else could suspend gravity?
Speak and control the wind and the sea?
take the 10 commandments and say " But I say to you "?

No one but God the Son!

17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”


Yes inside the Box is a great place to be!!!

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

Hi Wayne,

I like the statement, "Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone".

Not a bad box; but, is that all that's in it?

There should be no conditions attached to the statement, "Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone".


Has your "box" other conditions attached to "Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone"?

Does salvation now become contingent upon "Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone", as long as all the other conditions are met?

And, of course, by "conditions" I mean such things as the belief that Master returned to heaven in a physical body.

Just in this thread alone, "Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone" is true, as long as one believes that Christ returned to heaven in a body of flesh.

In more than one other thread, "Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone" is true, as long as one believes that Christ is a Trinity.

In another, "Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone" is true, as long as one believes that Christ died in body only.

Yet another, "Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone" is true, as long as one believes that only a person's body dies and the soul is immortal.

Does the added list of conditions go on?

Are any of these things which you seem to believe the Bible adds to "Salvation in Christ alone by faith alone", not "deal breakers" as far as salvation is concerned?


You see Wayne, and try not to take offence; but I see no essential differences between your beliefs and those of my former masters at the WT?

Both are very much, "my way or the highway" mentalities.

Sure the interpretations, the names, the forms vary, and each believes it has the "truth"; but both are very much summed up by "God is Love, Jesus is Salvation, but deviate from what we believe is the prescribed path by God and you are condemned to eternal damnation, (whatever we believe it to be)."

If I'm wrong, please show me something, that so far, I have not seen.


As always, I speak my heart, whenever I post.

I hope that should you decide to respond, that it not be mindless cut-and-paste.


"two small coins of little value"

Love to All,
John

Hi John, I see a huge difference between myself and the like minded believers I gather with and your former task Masters.

I can get up and waltz out the door anytime Salvation intact. I can leave the Brethren and meet with the Baptists,Pentacostals,Reformed,etc.

Of course there are other conditions to "the Box" since the Box is
" Christ " it must be " The Christ " of the Bible who is God. Not a god but The Eternal God.

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”


there are a few conditions: A. You must put your faith in the right person. ( faith in who it really does matter )

It is VERY important we put our faith in the REAL Jesus.

Take the average Catholic for instance their faith isn't in Jesus saving them from the penalty of their sins. It is in " The Holy Catholic Church " it is in a religious system and not in the person and the work of Christ.

Roman Catholicism denies salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ alone. Therefore, Roman Catholicism is outside of the Box.

There is only ONE Saviour, God. It has always been that way.
Jesus is that ONE God. If we read Timothy or Titus we see " God our Saviour and Jesus our Saviour. Not 2 Saviours but One God at work in Salvation. The HS convicts us of our sin,He leads us to Christ,who was send by the Father to be the substitutionary scarifice


1.John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

The Physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.Denial of the Physical resurrection leaves one still in their sins.

1 Corinthians 15:14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

1 Corinthians 15:17
And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!


To deny the physical resurrection is to deny that Jesus' work was a satisfactory offering to God the Father. It would mean that Jesus was corrupt and needed to stay in the grave. But, he did not stay because his sacrifice was perfect.

There is lots of room in the Box most people don't want in.

For the Pharisees, the God they said they believed in showed up in the flesh and they said get lost. We have our way, now you go yours or else.How He pleaded with them!!

Luke 13:34
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!

When did He want do that?

Ruth 2:12
The LORD repay your work, and a full reward be given you by the LORD God of Israel, under whose wings you have come for refuge.”

Psalm 91:4
He shall cover you with His feathers,And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler.

Psalm 36:7
How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!Therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of Your wings.

Yes how often?

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Recall that I wrote:

"Both are very much, "my way or the highway" mentalities.

Sure the interpretations, the names, the forms vary, and each believes it has the "truth"; but both are very much summed up by "God is Love, Jesus is Salvation, but deviate from what we believe is the prescribed path by God and you are condemned to eternal damnation..."

If I'm wrong, please show me something, that so far, I have not seen."

Your whole last post, is confirmation of what I wrote above.

Thanks.


As far as folks claiming to use the "Hermeneutic principle" to interpret scripture... it is so easily abused when attempting to justify a belief.

This topic is an example; which proves another essential similarity between fundies and the WT.

So, they more alike than not.

Anyway, the thing about the misuse of the "Hermeneutic principle" really shouldn't surprise us, because it's been going on probably before the inspired writers' ink even had a chance to dry.


"two small coins"

LTA,
John