Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Garth said:Difference between Rachel's declared righteousness and that of the other sheep?

In Christ>> Garth, the apostle Paul would have loved to correct you. You purposefully try to cause a distinction here as to the word and meaning of Justification." ('Justified by faith: 'Right with God.
whoever puts faith and repents stays this way via Ish. 1:18, 1 John 1:9. Don't try and explain away Paul's clear doctrine. don't try to confuse the simple minded what Paul is saying....

Romans 4:3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness

For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us.



Garth continues to prepare the simple minded for a 'new' meaning for the word justified as righteous. (You see, there is the biblical term, (1.) (The righteous. and, (2.) The unrighteous). But Garth is about to put 'new meaning' on all of this. Lets all listen in again to his twisted interpretation in his presentation, about, "Who are justified?"(3.?)
Garth continues>>> Rachel is declared righteous through faith in Jehovah. So too are the other sheep with 'the difference' being that in order for the other sheep to be delared righteous through their faith in Jehovah they must also have faith in Jesus Christ.

In Christ> (What he just insinuated was that only their so called, 144000 put faith in Jesus.) 'Wow,! That was just earth shattering information for us Garth! You should save that WT article and put it under your pillow at night. Boy Garth, that was really informative!' I mean, who would of ever thought that we must also have faith in Jesus Christ before ye are justified as righteous in the eyes of God???

Garth finishes with his smoke and mirrors>> 'Denying the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus would be a lack of faith in Jehovah.


InChrist>>Garth continues his smoke screen and his three pods and a pea, of who are justified as righteous and those who are 'unrighteous.' By the way. Have we all notice how the Jehovah Witness has studiously avoided 'clear bible passages to explain 'for him',or 'her' what they attempting to do from Watchtower 'books?'

Garth>>The scriptures say that Jesus will appoint 'princes' in the earth. I think we can assume that these 'princes' will be chosed from among the righteous rather than the unrighteous.

InChrist>> Garth after reading from Paul's defense of the 'Christian' doctrine of "Justification by faith, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that more than 144000, believing Jews (mentioned in Rev. 7)are justified as righteous in the eyes of God.' Paul was in direct opposition with the WT demonic teaching on who are in Christ and on this subject.The WT would teach any thing to keep its followers from 'partaking.'

“The Jonadabs are "not" even justified, because the receiving of life everlasting depends upon their obedience within God’s organization and faithfully abiding there until the wrath of God is passed at Armageddon.” WT April 1, 1938 p. 104

In the quote above, I think you possibly meant to say "little flock" instead of "other sheep"

In JW theology the "other sheep" are the same as the "jonadabs" (not in the New Covenant), while the "little flock" are the same as the 144,000 (in the New Covenant).

It is all quite confusing. :funnyface:

And you are right, a treachery. :(

Welcome aboard! :friends:

:heartbeat:

Jayme

Hello Jayme,
God bless you there.

Yes the cult member does its best to confuse the simple word of God, Twisting the meaning of unclear passage and explain away the clear one.
They wrongly go about interpreting the bible by using an unclear passage to explain away the meaning of the 'clear' passage, that is explaining the 'unclear one.'

The word “Jonadabs,” was at that time given to the ‘average’ JW within the organization who were told that they could not partake of the Lord’s Supper "because" they were not yet justified as righteous in the eyes of God. But the bible says, (Romans 5:1) Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us.

Garth , (using WT mentality) how could they be made right with God, when the Watchtower, was not even around back then? How could billions abide in the WT if the WT wasn't around back then? ..So how were they saved?

Garth it is no secret what door the spirit behind the Watchtower guides people into. We see here ('again') what door this deceitful spirit places people in. It wants as many as possible to be held guilty of clinging to an idol rather than clinging to Jesus Christ. Jesus said , "I am the door, (not the Watchtower or the Mormons). 'ABIDE in me' (not your Watchtower idol) he said. Any thing other than Jesus is an idol. Any thing one would abide in , ('cling too') other than Jesus Christ is an idol.

May God have mercy on you for your demonic teaching. May God have mercy on you for attacking His Church, (Lk. 9:49-50 ). May god have mercy on you for insinuating that he could not see into the future far enough to see the Devil "overcome " the Church, (Matthew 16:18). By the way Garth and Abe, what generation was it that the devil overcame the Church? What generation was it?

Let's read this demonic statement again so that the lurkers in here can see your false message. Your false gospel.... The Jonadabs are "not" even justified, because the receiving of life everlasting depends upon.......... their obedience within God’s organization and faithfully abiding there (Emphases mine).

Garth you are like the rest of the Watchtower followers. Jesus tells his followers to abide in him and the WT tells you to abide in 'it'. Unlike the teaching of the bible, Your false gods of the WT twist the scriptures as long as they can on a subject like this, ('Who are justified')? After the 'jig is up,' and people began leaving because of this shameful twisting of scripture that has "ALWAYS" been diametrically opposite, of Apostle Paul's teaching on this subject of justification by 'faith'.

Now here you are with (spiritually blind) Abe, with your shameful 'clean up towels trying to 'mop up' the past teachings of the WT on this subject.

Yes the cult member does its best to confuse the simple word of God

InChrist

Hi InChrist, :hibye:

If you were addressing me in the quote above I am afraid that you misunderstood what I said.

I was in NO WAY trying to "mop up" any of these mixed up WT teachings.

I was simply pointing out that in your post you used the wrong terminology. To correctly get accross your accurate point, the term "little flock" should be used in the places were you used the term "other sheep". Otherwise the fine point that you were highlighting is lost.

For your statement: (What he just insinuated was that only their so called, 144000 put faith in Jesus.) to match with your previous statement: (So too are the other sheep with 'the difference' being that in order for the other sheep to be delared righteous through their faith in Jehovah they must also have faith in Jesus Christ) the term "other sheep" must be changed to "little flock" to be consistant with the mixed up WT theology and to accuratly make the point you are trying to make.


:giverose:

Jayme

This topic seems to have started mid sentence.
Who is Garth?

InChrist please show respect for others and their opinions and drop the 'demonic' nonesense, thank you or report it as this topic has been.

Hello again Jayme my friend,

Please don't think I was in any way speaking to you. :heartbeat.

I also apologize for posting this in the wrong forum. but I guess in this case if the shoe fits (for a JW in here) they can wear it.
1 Timothy 4:1 that I quoted is for those who have been mesmerized by some of the cults teachings. Paul was warning the early Judizers they were falling from grace, as well as those listening to their teaching that was against Paul's defense of the Christian doctrine of 'justification by faith apart from works.

We want to love the cult member but not their teachings on such basic doctrines as Paul defended. He used 1 timothy 4:1 for such people.

I had two forums on my screen at one time and , well, I apologize to anyone I might have offended,(except the two names I mentioned and 'any other Watchtower follower who might read this.

Whew! I thought for a minute it was one of those guys who thinks he can multitask like a woman!:sweaty:

Are you referring to Gareth? He posts here as Wibble.

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

I hope it is....Wibble needs a good reaming! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

wasn't there a Garth on Al's board at one time? :thinking:
I remember him as being here too I think (or maybe e-watchman)--a watchtower defender who says he was never in the organization -but studied a time or two..just thinking.... :love:

LOL! Thats him sis.... :clap:


The "im not a Witness, im just studying, and have come to EXACTLY the same conclusions as JW's, using only the Bible" routine.

Thing is...if you read Gareth's posts, he writes just like an Insight volume -- writes like a Witness, talks like a Witness, defends like a Witness...but he isnt one.....

...me thinks Wibble is more like Wib-bull.


Cheers beautiful lady! :friends::friends::friends:

He currently posts regularly at the Topix Forum. He is one of the biggest WT apologists there.

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

I remember him well for that reason--and it never added up to me either-and somehow his post found its way here--hummm :read:

Quacks like a duck! :thinking:

Was just wandering what you peeps are saying the watchtower society got wrong. That the 144,000 are going to rule as kings over the earth? - Rev 5:9,10 7:4
or that there will be a massive great crowd that no one will be able to number who have the hope of everlasting life on earth? Rev 7:9, Rev 20:12,13. Isa 45:18
Restoration of earth to a paradise? - Ps 72:4-18
If everyone is going to rule as kings in heaven what are they gonna rule over?
Ive asked a lot of people who think they are going to heaven what they are going to do when they get there? A lot of people say that they don't know they will wait until they are there.The bible clearly states that they are chosen by god that they wont have to be taught and will rule over the earth.

The Basic teachings of the witnesses are quite easy to understand as they are gathered from the raw material of the bible.
Mistakes can be made just as the disciples did. But it is correcting and changing a teaching if you find that it is wrong that matters.

The quote from the WT April 1, 1938 p. 104
“The Jonadabs are "not" even justified, because the receiving of life everlasting depends upon their obedience within God’s organization and faithfully abiding there until the wrath of God is passed at Armageddon.”

This is a 70 year old watchtower. Witnesses nowadays are taught that it will all be up to Jehovah/Jesus/144000 to look into hearts of all People in all Nations/Religions and reap the harvest of sincere hearted individuals to be saved. Its not up to us and we do not think it will be exclusively Jehovah's Witnesses saved. Everyone will get chance to live on earth in paradise.
I am sure that if everyone on this forum is searching for the truth and if you have a sincere heart and want to get to know Jehovah and Jesus better then we will all hopefully see each other in the new system.

-

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
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