Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Is any link to Donald C. Burney of any benefit? (Might a brief quote be sufficient to further a point rather than an electronic/internet link?)

:coffeeread:

Ahhh man, who would be so stupid to believe that?

Level12

Yeah. I'm torn on that too, gogh.:huh: We may have to remove it.

I appreciate the detective work that Beau has done and am of the same opinion as he and others. Mighty similar, yes? But we may have to remove the link. PM me on that would you gogh?

Rez

Fortunately, not many. But they work hard to promote their twisted view.

So, just curious level, have you ever read the burney stuff before?:P

Hi Resolute:

Read Burney's stuff??? Not interested. :rant:

I'm a long-time JW and will probably stay that way for years to come. You see, I haven't found anything better. :thumbup:

I personally believe Jehovah's Witnesses are God's People. But I do have a "beef" with the 1914 teaching. :readthis:

But that's just me. :P

Level12

Yeah, I have an issue with 1914 too.:thumbup: You're having a problem with the WT view of the internet as well I'm a thinkin'.:D

Would you and Fugitive happen to be in the same congregation?

Hi Level12 and Welcome,

Just a quick thought re your post 150.

Going along with the Jw teaching that we will never see or be with our Father or his Son. We will be subjects of the Kingdom we are all waiting for and that's all according to what we were taught for decades.

Kind of empty don't you think? Not to have contact, or see, these two, Father and Son, in any way :( never for all eternity?

I believe we will be granted access in some way, but not imagined now. We will be a family, sons and daughters, not fatherless. The WT doesn't touch on this.

Regards,
Tessa

Hello, Level12 !

you are welcome !

I see that you have a problem with the 1914 teaching

so, I wish you to rise up ... to Level123 ... (by studying the problem )

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...9#pid60429

with love,
in Christ,
rus virgil

Level12

Do you have a beef with the due time approaching in 1975 prediction?

Luke 21:8
He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them.

There is something better!

You could go after Jesus Christ.

Do not go after them.

Revelation 14
These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes


Micah 2:13
“The one making a breakthrough will certainly come up before them: they will actually break through. And they will pass through a gate, and they will go out by it. And their king will pass through before them, with Jehovah at the head of them.”


In Christ

abe

I doubt that there are any deep-seated theological reasons for why this verse is written or translated the way it is.

Hebrew like modern languages such as German, but not like modern English, has separate forms of the personal pronoun you to indicate singular and plural antecedents as well as formal and informal speech. English had similar grammar up until the 15th century. The pronouns thee and thou and ye were no longer in standard English when the King James Bible was translated in the first decade of the 17th century. But these pronouns are used in the King James Bible because they reflect the grammar of the original Hebrew and Greek. Thou and thee always have singular antecedents while ye and you are plural. Ye and you are also formal even when the antecedent is singular. The English ye and you in the King James Bible are like the German sie- ich spreche Deutch is I speak German. Sprichts du Deutch is do you speak German when speaking to a single person that you are on friendly terms with. Sprechen sie Deutch is do you speak German when asking more than one person but it also means do you speak German when you are asking a single person that is a stranger to you or to whom you need to show respect.

I would venture that the you in Zechariah 8:23 is a sign of respect for a singular antecedent.

Hi jafla and welcome to the board! :D

I would agree with you there, jafla. Which means, the New World Translation took a serious liberty at this point, by adding the words "YOU PEOPLE" twice in this verse. (Zech. 8:23) Thus, I believe the word "you" [being plural in Hebrew] then would indicate grandeur instead of plurality, as the WTBTS sees it.

Knowing this, I wonder if there are other examples in the New World Translation, where the WTBTS added the word "people" to the pronoun "You" in the bible. There probably is, if that is the way they see the Hebrew language and the pronoun "you" in it. To find out, well, this may take some studying up to really get to the truth on this one. :dontknow:

Fugitive1/Detroit Intellect

It is highly ironic that while standard English has done away with the multiple forms of you, English in practice cannot make do with just you. Standard English no longer has a plural form of you, but (everybody’s?) practical English always makes up for it. In the south we have yaw or yawl. In the Midwest there is you uns or yins. And up north where Yankees live (at least part of the year after they leave Miami) yaw becomes yous or yous guys. And I’ve even noticed here in this thread that it has been pointed out that some Bible translations put you in capital letters to indicate when the antecedent is plural.

Plural you is a natural function of language and English cannot get along without it.

Hi all,

I just wanted to say to all, that's Isomam, Bruised Reed, Digital Punk, and other concerned parties:

I've been away from the board for a while. During this time, I had a few opportunities to go over to the Living Waters/YORWW Cult Factory, to see exactly what the fuss was all about. Well, I found out what those people were talking about, and I can tell you in one swift-pitch, I don't believe these people.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily hate every, single thing they believe. Over at Beliefnet, I thought they made some good points. But then again, I'm not a baptized JW or one who has done a lot bible study in my private life, even though I was brought up to be a JW. But still to me, this YORWW group is certainly, certainly not one that I would personally join. However, now finally, after much research on them, after taking out the time to learn more about what makes them "tick," I feel I can make this statement: PUBLIC NOW!

Now, what I have against them (Donald C. Burney's crew) is the fact, they have sooooooooo many rules to follow. (See a place they call the "Rules" Page, but I won't post the link because of previous advices.) Anyway, these people remind me of the WTBTS with all of their "rules." They have so many "rules," that I believe they fulfill the prophecy about too many "rules" found at Isaiah 28:13.

So, I can tell you guys right now, you never have to worry about me ever, becoming a Living Waters/YORWW member. Never!!! :readthis:

I just thought I would "clear the air," over this issue, because so many were concerned about me (especially "Bruised Reed") over this cult group. :grouphug:

Thanks again (to Isomam, Digital Punk, Bruised Reed, Resolute, Willa and all the gang here for your help and insight on the YORWW Cult People), as well as everyone else for your spiritual help and insight on this matter. :thumbsup:

May Jesus, Our Lord, be with you people,

Fugitive1/Detroit Intellect

anjaandreas wrote:

Thanks anj :thumbup:

I just saw your post. Very fine points!



Fugitive1 wrote:

Great news, Thats wonderful! :cheer: May the Lord bless you. :friends:

Hi abe, :hibye:

I only just read this, kinda late. :redface:

I see what you are saying above. But I think that if these men are the "man" then it is only AFTER their resurrection to heaven. When they actually become the "bride".

The scripture you quoted at Rev. 22:17 has its fulfillment AFTER armeggedon, during the millinium. At that time, then, I would agree with your statement here.

Last weeks watchtower also quoted this scripture and is trying to apply it to now even though they also admit that it has its fulfillment during the 1000 yrs. It cannot be both. The "bride" cannot be included in Jesus' saving work until they are united with Him. Until then we are PROSPECTIVE members only.

We do not want to slip into the WT error of glorifying men who have not yet been glorified.

Of course, we all have a part and a duty to share in bringing people to Christ at this time. But we cannot be considered a central means to their salvation. Actually, woe to us if we did not preach, at present we are just good for nothing slaves doing what we ought. 1 Cor 9:16, Luke 17:10

your fellow slave, Jayme :friends: