Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Astronomy's Best Kept Secret
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSSjpf_1Z...re=related

Actually there is a problem!

Nothing can travel faster than light. Its only a recent discovery that the universes expansion appears to be speeding up. So either this law is not constant or something else is going on.

Hi Brian,
There is an even bigger problem for the Young Earth Creationists!!!

They are so unbelievably micronly short-sighted, they cannot see beyond a 6,000 year event horizon! :)

Every 'apparent' object beyond their 'EH' is all smoke and mirrors performed by the Great Cosmic Celestial Joker! ;)

I agree. YEKs have really opened the door for gnosticism to flourish with such daftness.

Brother Seraphim,

and everyone else here too...

Could you PLEASE, before you continue to bash Gnosticism, at least find out what it really is?

You might learn why the Gnostics were martyred to near extinction during the first three centuries of the Christian Era and their writings burned. You also might be surprised that it is not a belief....

IT IS DIRECT KNOWLEDGE. (The kind you don't read in a book.)

[admin. note: gnostic link removed. please don't put this up again, Jesh. You've been warned about gnostic and occult materiel]

Peace and :heartbeat:,
Jesh

What makes you think I haven't? A martyr doesn't make a truth does it! For instance the Jehovah's witness martyrs of Hitlers death camps in no way justify the children who died over the blood transfusion issue!

I should add that gnosticism fails on several fundamental levels. Just because a popular interpretation of Genesis with its young earth denial of the nature of the universe has allowed modern gnostic thought to rear it ugly head, doesn't make it correct. Gnosticism itself has as many, if not more holes in it as the mistaken interpretations of Christianity it purports to replace, and I'm no lover of the abuses and mistakes of some of Christs followers. For instance, if as you say it is direct knowledge, so cant be gleaned from a book as you say, why is it a problem that their writings were burned? Why did they write at all? Would seem to be a pointless exercise for a form of knowledge that is direct by nature. Of course that is a miner point that amounts to nothing compared to its other problems. It looks, sounds, and feels true on a certain intuitive level, but that is why it is false because some truth is counter intuitive.

Ahh, as usual, you didn't even read the link, and without even backing up one point, you say its all false, or "has more holes" than anything Orthodox Christianity teaches. This is from a guy who admitted YESTERDAY that you have changed your views on EVERYTHING over the years. What makes you think you have ANYTHING right as of right now? YOUR BIBLE IS CHOCK FULL OF HOLES, like Swiss Lace!

Tell me how COUNTLESS people have told of their dreams and visions over the millennia, and they seem to all be telling the same basic story. According to YOU is the Dalai Lama a Satanist? How do you REALLY KNOW that resurrection does not happen MANY TIMES? Have you ever been dead? I'm just curious. Because lots of people who HAVE BEEN dead can remember. Is this all the work of demons to TRICK US like the Watchtower teaches? :rofl:

I know that Alice Bailey was a Satanist, but were her writings 100 percent false? HA!! Are you in for a shock! Read up on some metaphysical stuff. Your own Bibles say that the truth in the latter days will change EVERYTHING. EVERYONE WILL KNOW BY DIRECT INSIGHT. All Jesus talked about was ONENESS with God and WITH EACH OTHER. The Paradigm that we have spent our lives in contribute to the illusion of separateness, but we are all one, and the small Divine Spark inside CANNOT DIE. OUR EVENTUALITY IS TO BE AN ANGEL, minus the EGOS!! People who die keep coming back until they learn the LOVE OF GOD. Unless you think your "one shot" and then "judgment day" is the "truth"? Go back and read Tertullian, Valentinus, Clement, and investigate early Christianity. NONE OF THESE ISSUES HAD BEEN DECIDED IN THE FIRST CENTURY, and certainly by the Nicene Council, we got the story that empowered the Roman Church.

Oh, then someone like Interpretum will jump in and say that we have these "old manuscripts" dating to the first century or whatever. So WHAT?!? There are pieces of the gospels and the book of Revelation that appeared in the Sybilline Oracles back in the 6th century BC. John is a Gnostic gospel and so is the book of Revelation. NO WONDER no has has figured it out in almost 2000 years!

You can't even get a few people to agree exactly who Jesus was, or the Nature of God. But the people who have EXPERIENCED God don't seem to have a problem explaining Him! Why? Go back and read your Bible. Jesus said the Kingdom is WITHIN YOU. Paul said the Christ was WITHIN you. Many of you here KNOW this. But you toss your inner 3 percent of Divinity out the window because you take a story of a talking snake literally! Read John 17 again, and tell me how Jesus could have put it any plainer.

As long as you believe Jesus is the ONLY CHRIST you can never be like Him. He came to SHOW US the way, but Christians believe HE DID ALL THE WORK and we need to do very little. You all KNOW He is only the firstfruits. And yet you cling to THE CHURCH OF PAUL (who didn't even write most of what's attributed to him!!!)

Anyway, the Gnostics died for their knowledge, or if you insist, "beliefs". Are you saying they deserved it?

Peace and Love,
Jesh

Actually I did read the link and it confirmed the same old Ive heard before. None of it was a surprise and Ive studied the subject extensively. I also get dreams and visions and they contradict the gnostic stance.

You gave up on the bible too quickly for a quick fix Jeshurun. Care to explain the cosmic accident that splintered bits of the divine away from its source? How does that make sense? Care to explain how being subsumed into the universal cosmic blob, losing ones ego, and sense of self in the process is desirable? Your preaching affective death and oblivion. You wont be able to enjoy it as that takes ego and a sense of self. Its called consciousness by the way. Its a shame you stumbled at your perception of suffering in the universe. By the way your history is in error as well. Not a surprise when it comes to this subject. Jesus would not have agreed with you, and he is the only ascended master that can grant entry to heaven if you even believe in that anymore. Your philosophy is wrong on many levels. It does away with love, justice, purpose to name just a few.

Good luck with it you will need it.

Not sure anyone deserves to die for knowledge here, but I recall this knowledge while on LSD in the '60's. Here we go again ....

Here's some knowledge for you Jesh (with some "mystery" thrown in for good measure...):


"Ephesians 6:10...

Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might.

Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Wherefore take up the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand.

Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; withal taking up the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: with all prayer and supplication praying at all seasons in the Spirit, and watching thereunto in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints, and on my behalf, that utterance may be given unto me in opening my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,..."

Imo, the link you have posted, Jesh; is not appropriate for this place of discussion that (for the most part) encourages complete faith in Jesus.

John 8:46...

"Who of YOU convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me?  He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God.”

John 14:6...

"Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

:coffeeread:

Honestly, how many times have I said on this forum that the Bible contains a wealth of Divine Truth but that it has a hidden interpretation? What language am I writing in?

Common sense tells me that if a book is full of contradictions, and you're going to consult it to rule your life, they need to be resolved.

Just a couple of things, if I may, and please, this is all I ask. I've done this before, and it just gets ignored, or deleted. For your OWN sakes, please MAKE AN ATTEMPT to resolve these three issues:

1. The Bible clearly says in more than one place that sons are not held responsible for the sins of their fathers....

2. If Jehovah receives Israel an as inheritance, who gives it to him?

3. Psalms 40:6 "Sacrifice and offering you did not delight in;
These ears of mine you opened up.
Burnt offering and sin offering you did not ask for."

That's it.... see ya soon....:hibye:

Love,
Jesh

Jesh - you're writing in plain English, I understand. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, really, repetition is not the problem. You don't think anybody at all has ever curiously investigated what gnosticism is all about, do you? Of course we have! I've done so, personally, many times in my life. Nobody needs a link to find it, lol. But I'm always drawn back to the Jesus of the Bible - he sounds most like the truth to me. I've had the "Jesus experience!" and well, there's never gonna be any other Way for me! Many people here feel like that - we've chosen what we've chosen, Jesh. Our choice isn't negated just because you think differently. Maybe you think it's the best thing since sliced bread, but to me it's garbage. So... looks like we've made different choices. There are gnostic forums, but this isn't one. You know that, but you insist on forcing this issue - why is that? After the JWs I promised myself never to get up in somebody's face about religion ever again - witness to my faith, yes, but not all vigilante like I used to be.("I'm right and you're all sooooo blind - why can't everyone see what I see in this all-encompassing TRUTH!") So that's the turn off for me with you arguing gnosticism here - you're all up in our faces with it, Jesh - and it actually sounds like you think we're stupid for not listening to you and following what you believe, now.:dontknow:

Bro, these are your issues, not mine. I've resolved all the issues I needed to after leaving religion. [Jephthah's daughter anyone?) I'm not some 'fundy', Jesh, and I think most arguments for gnosticism are against fundamental interpretation and literal Bible translation.

So, how many times have we individually told you - "we don't want it." We're not lying or hiding behind words - we really and truly just don't want it. You've chosen for yourself - good for you if you're satisfied. I've chosen, and I'm definitely satisfied. And that's all there is to it I guess. I do have love for you Jesh - we've 'known' each other since e-w days - but I feel like you left our shared faith - you left. I'm sad about that because you always had good things to share - but I didn't leave you or push you away. You found something you like better - hey, it happens - but what kind of sharing can we have now? We don't have much in common anymore... :(

:clap: Let everyone have a say, eh - I know I can't speak for everyone.
Do we want to keep this as a Christian talk/Bible study-type forum - or do you want to turn it into a gnostics forum. It can't be both.

My vote = Christian/Bible forum. :thumbup:

:peace:

as willa so thoroughly and eloquently explained -- again -- (she's pretty great that way, imo) nobody here objects if you want to embrace gnosticism 'til the cows come home. your choice. your deal.

many here (including me) do object to your inconsiderately insisting on bringing your thoughts and pandering gnosticism here, when you have been repeatedly instructed by the db's moderators, administrators, etc. not to do so. does every gnostic possess such unbelievable hubris? (don't answer. i already know the answer.)

this paradise cafe discussion board has a stated objective (read the banner, jesh). and that is to assist those whose choice is different from yours; those whose choice is to continue "keeping a tight grip on the word of life." THE WORD OF LIFE! gnosticism covertly undermines the "word of life" in every despicable way. don't let the door hit you in the backside.

ps: you sign your posts "love." but that is so transparently disingenuous. your continued actions in assaulting this discussion board with unwelcome, unwanted, unappreciated gnosticism, as willa and i have mentioned to you -- again -- belie that insincerity.

ok.

We will see comes of this. I know our Father will grant the answers to your questions even if I do not even understand them.

lets begin with your first.

1. The Bible clearly says in more than one place that sons are not held responsible for the sins of their fathers....


it says man will die in his sins, as well as we all die once.
What is the issue?
if we die once I take that to mean no re... re...re..... incarnation.
just once do we get reincarnated.

Your going to have to give me more information Jesh in order to answer your questions. What do you think the contradictions are?