01-17-2010, 06:09 PM
:wave: Hey ever-body!
Been studying through the book of Romans on the weekends, you know... and in ch. 10 vss 6&7 there's a saying that kind of flies over my head. Here's vss 1-12 for context ---
Romans 10 [NASB]
The Word of Faith Brings Salvation
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),
7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
The reference to vs. 6 is at Deuteronomy 30:12; Romans 10:8 is from Deuteronomy 30:14 ---
10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.
11 For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it."
So it seems the message from God in Deuteronomy is that His commandments were not to be sought by sending someone else after them - like Moses went up into the mountain for the Law tablets - nor were they to be 'made' to hear it - God's word is very close to us, inward, in our hearts, and outward, in our mouths. In light of that, Romans 10 vs 6 makes perfect sense.
But that vs. 7! There are no other Biblical references for that verse except to the word "abyss" and unrelated to the topic. Certainly Jesus wasn't dead in order "to bring Christ up from the dead". It was suggested that maybe this verse was a saying of the time with certain crowds, perhaps a 'slang' term for an 'unhealthful' teachings that Paul sought to correct. He did have to send other reminders of the reality of Christ's resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:1 & 2 Timothy 2:18.
I'm sure it made sense to Paul's intended audience, but the significance has been lost on me! It's probably very simple and I'm overlooking the obvious, lol. :whistle:
Matthew Henry's commentary doesn't directly address the verse in question, but it's edifying - Justification by faith in Christ is a plain doctrine. It is brought before the mind and heart of every one, thus leaving him without excuse for unbelief. If a man confessed faith in Jesus, as the Lord and Saviour of lost sinners, and really believed in his heart that God had raised him from the dead, thus showing that he had accepted the atonement, he should be saved by the righteousness of Christ, imputed to him through faith.http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.ph...10&com=mhc
Adam Clarke's commentary might shed some more light, though - just found this!
Verse 6-7. But the righteousness which is of faith] As it is most evident that there can be no justification by works, as all are sinful and all in a guilty state; if God will grant salvation at all, it must be by faith: but faith must have an object and a reason for its exercise; the object is Jesus Christ-the reason is the infinite merit of his passion and death.
Who shall ascend unto heaven? &c.] As Christ is the end of the law for justification to every one that believes, no observance of the law can procure him. Who, by the practice of the law, can bring Christ down from heaven? Or, when brought down, and crucified and buried, as a sacrifice for sin, who can bring him up again from the dead? And both his death and resurrection are essentially necessary for the salvation of a lost world. Or the sense of the apostle may be this: They who will not believe in Christ crucified must in effect be seeking another Messiah to come down from heaven with a different revelation; or they who will not credit the doctrine that we preach concerning his resurrection seem in effect to say, Christ yet remains to be raised from the dead, and reign over the Jews as a mighty secular sovereign, subjecting the Gentile world to the sway of his righteous scepter.http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkerom10.htm
I'll have to mull this over some more, I find it very interesting. Any thoughts you all have are very appreciated - so.......
any thoughts yet? :)
:love:Love to you all,:grouphug:
Willa :peace:
Been studying through the book of Romans on the weekends, you know... and in ch. 10 vss 6&7 there's a saying that kind of flies over my head. Here's vss 1-12 for context ---
Romans 10 [NASB]
The Word of Faith Brings Salvation
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),
7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
The reference to vs. 6 is at Deuteronomy 30:12; Romans 10:8 is from Deuteronomy 30:14 ---
10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.
11 For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it."
So it seems the message from God in Deuteronomy is that His commandments were not to be sought by sending someone else after them - like Moses went up into the mountain for the Law tablets - nor were they to be 'made' to hear it - God's word is very close to us, inward, in our hearts, and outward, in our mouths. In light of that, Romans 10 vs 6 makes perfect sense.
But that vs. 7! There are no other Biblical references for that verse except to the word "abyss" and unrelated to the topic. Certainly Jesus wasn't dead in order "to bring Christ up from the dead". It was suggested that maybe this verse was a saying of the time with certain crowds, perhaps a 'slang' term for an 'unhealthful' teachings that Paul sought to correct. He did have to send other reminders of the reality of Christ's resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:1 & 2 Timothy 2:18.
I'm sure it made sense to Paul's intended audience, but the significance has been lost on me! It's probably very simple and I'm overlooking the obvious, lol. :whistle:
Matthew Henry's commentary doesn't directly address the verse in question, but it's edifying - Justification by faith in Christ is a plain doctrine. It is brought before the mind and heart of every one, thus leaving him without excuse for unbelief. If a man confessed faith in Jesus, as the Lord and Saviour of lost sinners, and really believed in his heart that God had raised him from the dead, thus showing that he had accepted the atonement, he should be saved by the righteousness of Christ, imputed to him through faith.http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.ph...10&com=mhc
Adam Clarke's commentary might shed some more light, though - just found this!
Verse 6-7. But the righteousness which is of faith] As it is most evident that there can be no justification by works, as all are sinful and all in a guilty state; if God will grant salvation at all, it must be by faith: but faith must have an object and a reason for its exercise; the object is Jesus Christ-the reason is the infinite merit of his passion and death.
Who shall ascend unto heaven? &c.] As Christ is the end of the law for justification to every one that believes, no observance of the law can procure him. Who, by the practice of the law, can bring Christ down from heaven? Or, when brought down, and crucified and buried, as a sacrifice for sin, who can bring him up again from the dead? And both his death and resurrection are essentially necessary for the salvation of a lost world. Or the sense of the apostle may be this: They who will not believe in Christ crucified must in effect be seeking another Messiah to come down from heaven with a different revelation; or they who will not credit the doctrine that we preach concerning his resurrection seem in effect to say, Christ yet remains to be raised from the dead, and reign over the Jews as a mighty secular sovereign, subjecting the Gentile world to the sway of his righteous scepter.http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkerom10.htm
I'll have to mull this over some more, I find it very interesting. Any thoughts you all have are very appreciated - so.......
any thoughts yet? :)
:love:Love to you all,:grouphug:
Willa :peace: