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Hello Friends,

I've done a lot of research on Syriac or Aramaic. Syriac is the Greek invention for all who wrote Aramaic. So, Syriac is not the same as 'the language of Syria.

Unfortunately, there has been a historical genocide on all Syriac Bibles during the ages, especially by the Western Churches on all the churches that did not agree with the chalcedon counsel.
They are the Churces of the East.

So, we live with a Christian myth, that christianity spread itself in the Roman empire, however, Christianity already reached China in 635 AD!

That was even before they reached the Netherlands in the 9th century by 'Bonifatius' :)

In the 19th century, China made known to the world, about a discovered monument which contains all the names of the missionaries who did all the hard work.
I got a small part of the Hsian-Fu monument, but you get the idea!


Why do I write this? Because I wanted to show that Syriac, was up to the Islam age, a WORLD-language.

It was even used by the Parthens, who owned e.g. Babylon.
According to Peters letters, he stayed in Babylon. Babylon has -never- been part of the Roman empire, neither Babylon was in 'decline' (as the WTS seems to teach :) )

From Elam/Parthia/Mesapotamia Syria, up to Judea, the -main- language was Aramaic, not Jewish, not Greek.

This was the Parthian Empire during Jesus age.


Of course, there were Dialects. So, Jesus, seemed to have addressed God with 'el' (el-i means My God, it's the genitive)
While in Judea, alaha was the way to 'address' God.
And some may have pronounced it as 'aloha'

Also Peter (Cefas) was found to be 'galilean', not because he spoke Greek, but because of his other Aramaic accent!

Even Paul, seems to have spoken Aramaic. Wasn't he speaking 'hebrew'? Perhaps, but Jews, were addressed as 'jews', not as Arameans, they were addressed as speaking 'hebrew' while they in fact even -might- spoke (+/- 50 years ago) Jiddish or another language.

And, even the jews in Babylon, wrote the Talmud, which is in Aramaic language, not the 'Hebrew' language of the OT.

So, this was a short historical backup!
Is there any backup that the NT was written in Aramaic? Sure!

If you compare the Greek variances (there are sometimes 4 variances!) they ALL are explained by looking at the Syriac words, not the other way around.

Even Irineaus has made such remark.

Quote:
A point of some interest will be found of frequent recurrence in the notes; which is, the repeated instances that Scriptural quotations afford, of having being made by one who was as familiar with some Syriac version of the New Testament, as with the Greek originals. Strange variae lectiones occur, wich can only be explained by referring to the Syriac version. It will not be forgotten that S. Irenaeus resided in early life at Smyrna; and it is by no means improbable that he may have been of Syrian extraction, and instructed from his earliest infancy in some Syriac version of Scripture


Again, Syriac is NOT just the Bible in Syrian territory. Syriac is the Greek name for ALL aramaic documents, written using 'Estrangelo' script and some variances.

b.t.w. Irenaus, did not say: Greek is the original, but he wrote about THE greek originals :)

When one looks at the Syriac Bible (I'm speaking about the Peshitta/Peshitto) you will find lots of Biblical contradictions or 'spurious parts' As Jim calls it :), vanished and explained because some translator just did not get the Judean meaning of some proverb.

Just one example (I've already collected +/- 500 differences)
According to Jesus, the Farisees were praying 'as if' and they consumed the widows houses!

What's the relation between praying and consuming the houses? I think, that a biblical commentator would say: "Well, why pray to god, while consuming a widows house?"

(Matthew 23:13 AND luke 20:47)
But the Aramaic word were greek for 'pretext' has , has several meanings, and the word can mean 'offer' or 'offerings'.
So, the Pharisees, asked money for praying long prayers, and so they consumed the houses of widows.

Wasn't that pracise a former middle-age Catholic practise as well? Now Jesus words, start to have meaning! Just because of looking at the Aramaic source

Of course, it is possible that some letters, were 'both' originally Greek as Aramaic. Take Galatians and 1 Peter. The Greek grammar seems to be ok but so does Aramaic. And the Galatians _were_ Greek speaking, not an 'Aramaic' people.

But when we find other letters of Paul, we find 'maran-atha', 'Abba' in the Greek text, while the Syriac version, exactly has THOSE words on respective places. So, which is the original?
When we compare Hebrews, which is a real difficult letter, the Syriac even has (my findings) +/- 40 little ot big differences which really make Paul a 'normal' or 'big' writer.

Dear egbert! hello and welcome to our 'piece of paradise' ... :cake::rose::grouphug:

I do so very much love reading about the 'wheres' and 'meanings' of various words as the do seem to widen and deepen our understanding of what the Bible has to say or doesn't say ... :thumbup::giverose:

Thank you so very much for putting this up ... and I do hope you will expound more on it as more brothers and sisters weigh in on this topic ... :post:

'History' as we have to 'know' it I have found really depends upon who is 'writing' it doesn't it and then how it is 'interpreting' it years after the so-called 'facts' or 'wishful thinking' have occurred ...

'Meanings' of words ... and 'traditions' or 'beliefs' really do seem to have an impact upon what we have come to know from what we read and can in the end totally change what we 'thought' we knew ... hence that is one of the very reasons that I so look forward to the scriptural fulfillment of the words found at Jer. 31:34 ...

34 “And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, ‘KNOW Jehovah!’ for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.”

(GNB) None of them will have to teach a neighbor to know the LORD, because all will know me, from the least to the greatest. I will forgive their sins and I will no longer remember their wrongs. I, the LORD, have spoken."


Isa. 54:13 also helps to know that there will come a time when we CAN and will understand CORRECTLY for our teacher will be our Father ...

13 And all your sons will be persons taught by Jehovah, and the peace of your sons will be abundant.

(ASV) And all thy children shall be taught of Jehovah; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

(GNB) "I myself will teach your people and give them prosperity and peace.

(YLT) And all thy sons are taught of Jehovah, And abundant is the peace of thy sons.


All that being said in my long-winded way ... one of the scriptures that I have always wondered about as to HOW it was written is the gospel accounts of Jesus' words at Matt. 27:46-50 ...

46 About the ninth hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “E′li, E′li, la′ma sa·bach·tha′ni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” 47 At hearing this, some of those standing there began to say: “This man is calling E·li′jah.” 48 And immediately one of them ran and took a sponge and soaked it with sour wine and put it on a reed and went giving him a drink. 49 But the rest of them said: “Let him be! Let us see whether E·li′jah comes to save him.” [[Another man took a spear and pierced his side, and blood and water came out.]] 50 Again Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and yielded up [his] spirit.

This cry of our Lord seems to be almost exactly the same as David's to our Father and which is found at [color=#0000FF]Ps. 22:1
...

(ASV) For the Chief Musician; set to Aijeleth hash-Shahar. A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning?

(DRB) Unto the end, for the morning protection, a psalm for David. (22:2) O God my God, look upon me: why hast thou forsaken me? Far from my salvation are the words of my sins.

(CEV) (A psalm by David for the music leader. To the tune "A Deer at Dawn." ) My God, my God, why have you deserted me? Why are you so far away? Won't you listen to my groans and come to my rescue?

(YLT) To the Overseer, on `The Hind of the Morning.' --A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me? Far from my salvation, The words of my roaring?


Now to the part of what I have always found 'interesting' ...

Why did the people standing round about have such difficulty in understanding what Jesus said? Did he suddenly speak in a different dialect they were unfamiliar with? But it does not seem so as there is a translation of what he said ... :dontknow:

It rather seem to be the TERM he used ... Eli Eli part ...

“My God, my God, why have you left me?” Heb., ’E·li′, ’E·li′, la·mah′ ‛azav·ta′ni?; Syr., ’A·lahi ’A·lahi lema·na’ sebaq·tani?


And if he did speak differently, why would he do so? Why make confusing to those around as to WHO he was calling out to? And of course at this specific time in his life when he would want his father the MOST ... why did he not call out 'Jehovah NAME' ... the name he said to make known and glorify?

Questions ... questions ... :thinking: some with answers and some yet to unfold ...:happyheart::whistle:

Have you any specifics on this ...? Or is that off topic to what you are trying to say ... :dontknow::confused::love:

Anyway, just wanted to say hello, and thanks for getting on my thinking cap for the day ... :read::detective::whistle:

Christian love to you and yours, your sis in the faith, BR :sheepy::bouncyhearts:

BruisedReed Wrote:
Dear egbert! hello and welcome to our 'piece of paradise' ... :cake::rose::grouphug:


Thanks!

b.t.w. I have just returned, I'm not quite really new :)

BruisedReed Wrote:
Have you any specifics on this ...? Or is that off topic to what you are trying to say ... :dontknow::confused::love:

Anyway, just wanted to say hello, and thanks for getting on my thinking cap for the day ... :read::detective::whistle:

Christian love to you and yours, your sis in the faith, BR :sheepy::bouncyhearts:



Mm, for what I have understood and found, that Judea and Galilea, just were Aramaic speaking territories, but the differences were dialect.

So, for instance, aqeldama (field of blood) was the Judean dialect.
But the Northern dialect was 'kuvriat-den' (think about e-den) :)

When they heard Jesus crying, I don't think the jews were thinking of Psalms 22:1, but they simply were not used to calling God 'el'
So, they might have heard as if he said: "El-i(jah), el-i(jah), why have you forsaken me?"

By the way, these words, in the Aramaic topic, are very hot, since some (and I agree more or less) that the Aramaic root-word, for 'forsaken' is used in Luke 23:34, the same word in that verse means 'spare'
So, -it could be- that Jesus has said: "Why have you spared me?"
As if Jesus meant: "Well, Father, I'm going to die already now, at 3 o clock while I can bear a lot more..."

However, there is no hebrew backup for that meaning, on the root-word in Psalms 22:1

Brotherly love

Hi there ... :hibye:

Thanks so much for your reply ... :giverose:

Christian love, BR:sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
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