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Dear Christian friends,

I now live in a very isolated place and do not have personal access to the net, but this is something I’ve been studying on for a while and would like to share it with you all.

The account of the locust, and the two witnesses.

I now believe these trumpets are blown and we are on the verge of the seventh.

I wish to start with Genesis. I have noticed there are many small links between these two books, Revelation and |Genesis. The introduction of the Curse and the end of the curse, the tree of life, the serpent and other points. However because of this I believe Gen 3:17 has more meaning than I first realized. “…Cursed is the ground because of you;…
The wording….Adam is the curse…and he also suffers because of this curse., and the act of eating and getting our physical needs meet are now part of the problem.

So let’s go to Rev 9, reading vs. 1&2
I see the Devil as the star that has fallen, BUT I now see these verses pointing to something very, very large having a complete affect upon the entire globe, something that has totally changed the way mankind lives and interacts with the plant. The discovery of fossil fuels, note where does the fuel come from?? Deep in the earth crust = bottomless pit. What do we do with the fuel? One main thing, we BURN it. All over the whole earth we are burning it 24/7 like in a great furnace?? Does not all that smoke also go up into the air? So first off vs. 2 could be a symbolic sign for this industrial event? Does not our time period standout leaps and bounds above any other in human history because of our industrial development ?

So then what are the locust? 6 billion plus Mankind.
Why do they come out of the smoke? Because of this new found energy mankind has been able to grow unbelievable and in fact the rate of human growth mirrors the rate of oil discovery and extraction, also interesting the spike in our population growth is like a locust bloom.

There are some others scriptures that clearly show Gods use of locust to speak of man. Joel is VERY clear if you read it in this light. Note Judges 6:5, 7:12, Jer 46:23 & 51:14, 27, Nah 3:15, Isaiah 33:4

I think the locust are spreading ‘life of sin’ via their sting, notice 1Cor 15:55,56 “..O death where is your sting,…”

Vs 4 the grass and green thing and trees, are a reference to the righteous. Psalms 1 & Matt 15:13, there are many vs. that compare people to plants.

Now I’m not going to give you a vs. by vs. if that’s ok I just what to give you an idea of this view. Let’s skip to vs. 18. Two points I wish to make, first of all fire, smoke and brimstone = red, blue & yellow which are the three primary color through which we see our world around us. Is that a hint for us to look at what is going on in the real world around us? What do we see?? Also oddly fire, smoke and sulphur are main results of once again burning fuel? Many of the worlds brightest scientists are telling us we are over polluting the earths air, water and land. Some of them are saying things are going to get very, very bad. So are we then the curse because of what we are doing to the planet, mostly what we are doing is consuming the planet in various ways.
Remember the end of this account in 11:18

Ok now I’m going to jump to the two witnesses. IF you can see where I’m coming from with this view on the locust you might find this next point interesting also.

Remember when the Israelites were going to enter the promise land and God placed before them life and death? He then went on and listed all the blessing they would receive if they listened and followed him and also then listed all the affliction they would suffer if they did not? Deut 30:19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today,…” How did he call them as witness??? Also is this not two, heaven and earth? If you read the whole of Deut 30 it seems this book is also a prophesy of the time when Jesus returns because notice the circumsition of the heart? I find this helps point to this other possible meaning for the two witnesses as mentioned here.

Well were they not blessed through the two witnesses or cursed through them? If they followed God the rains came, their crops were good, their animals were healthy no sickness, blights, they were healthy, BUT if they practised sin what happen?? Every kind of plague, crop failure, no rain, sickness on everyone and everything.

Sooooo I wonder IF the two witnesses of |Rev are the SAME two witnesses.
The olive tree for the earth and the lamp stand for the heavens.
Since Adam and Eve has not mankind been subject to the power of the earth and every season, storm and trouble? Reminding them they have been put out of the garden? Thus vs. 5&6
The fact that the Jews were blessed as a nation by have the earth be GOOD to them was a sign from God.
Now remember what came up out of the abyss, the locust but here it rather is called a beast or a viper vs. 7. IF this events marked the birth of the industrial world and the death of the two witnesses, well how have they been killed? If there is a drought we just pump water out of the ground or dam entire river systems. Bugs on our crops we spray poison, we have pesticides, herbicides, & fungicides, sickness we have drugs of all kinds, famine we ship food and use artificial fertilizer to grow food where it would not grow. Ask yourself has mankind ever had such power over the earth in all of history? Leaving their dead bodies out I think is pointing to the fact we have chosen this path as a race working against the living system of our planet and not even caring about the resulting harm to all the other life systems around us.

What then is the resurrection of the two witnesses??

Because almost in every way the methods used to accomplish this have very negative side effects, some of which are only now beginning to show, and in the end I believe will prove to be far more devastating, than the original curses of God through his two witnesses. I believe the collapse of the earths ecosystems and the climate change along with all the other inter connected problems will equal the plagues of Revelation. We are creating them.

The father eats the sour grapes and his Childs teeth are put on edge.

I hope this at least gives you a intriguing different way to look at Revelation.

Digging

Hi Digging

Well, that was certainly one of the more original and creative interpretations I've seen in a while... very interesting!

I'd suggest to you that locusts often symbolize not just men, but of invading armies.

Thanks for posting! :thumbsup:

Yes I agree very much with you, the locust is also described as an invading army in Joel 2:2, however if you notice the meaning on some of the words in this vs great & strong has more meaning one of which is uncountable in number. So I ask what land is the army invading at this late date? Is not the whole earth belonging to God? So this time the army is invading the whole earth....we are consuming it...like locust.

Also one more hint that mankind is the locust, when the curse was put on Adam "you shall eat the herb of the field"
What do locust eat?



digging

Interpetum,

I went through your entire post "Wars of the Jews" and found it most interesting.

Josephus' description almost exactly matches the words of apostle John in so many places.
I am also very pleased to find that you also believe that the vindication of Jacob's people is still something on the cards and in the future!

Your writing has been very reassuring.

Thanks

Farhat Zubair

Hi digging

Well, respectfully to you (because I certainly appreciate reading other people's interpretations), I think you make the classic mistake when you asked,

"So I ask what land is the army invading at this late date?"

Why do we take every scripture to apply to us, at "this late date"? I would suggest it's because we've been conditioned to do so. The WTS had a type and antitype for just about every prophetic scripture, didn't they? :D

So, for example, the Jews being hauled off to Babylon had its antitype in the Governing Body going to prison in 1919, we were taught :dontknow:

Well, I think you would agree that's probably ridiculous, but why do we still cling to the notion that every prophecy has to have an antitype somehow, in the same prophecy? And not only any antitype, but one that is conveniently for us, today?

I'm not saying God doesn't re-use certain symbols and imagery - clearly He does, as in the case of Babylon, and then Babylon the Great... but even in this example, it's clear that they are two different things... the entire prophecy of ancient Babylon isn't being re-used, but Babylon the Great is its own entity, based not only upon ancient Babylon, but also upon ancient Tyre and Ninevah.

So when it comes to a book like Joel, we must first of all make sure we understand its first meaning!

Joel was apparently written around 820BC, so there were at least two invasions of God's people after that... namely, the one at the hand of Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar, and one at the hand of Roman general Titus.

In Acts 2, Peter quotes from Joel 2:28-32, and applies it to his day, and the outpouring of the spirit at Pentecost.

He called it "the last days", so clearly he was referring to the last days of the Jewish system of things, which would come to its end with Titus, and the Roman armies.

So I would suggest to you that the fulfillment of Joel 2 was when God brought the Roman armies upon Judah and Jerusalem... making the Roman armies the locusts.

(Even if you believe there is somehow another fulfillment of this, there must have been a 1st century fulfillment (as per Peter), in which the Roman armies were the locusts, i.e. ARMIES = LOCUSTS.)

Joel 2 wasn't a prophecy for the whole earth - in fact, it commences saying: "Blow a horn in Zion, O men, and shout a war cry in my holy mountain." (2:1)

Similar imagery is used in Revelation, not because it's a more modern fulfillment, but because it's the same event, in my opinion.

In other words, the invading horses in Revelation 9 is also the Roman armies under Titus, and the symbology is similar to Joel's deliberately, because it's drawing our attention to the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. The "seven trumpets" of Revelation represent the "great tribulation" upon the Jews (as foretold by Jesus), and the fall of the Jewish system!

I would not want to base my interpretations on the similarity of food, because the wild beasts of the field were also to eat the herb of the field as well.

I understand how you can equate mankind to locusts... and to a certain extent, the way we've acted upon this planet IS like locusts, I agree... but to me, the prophecy of Joel is about God using a foreign invading army like locusts to invade his people Zion, which he certainly did in the 1st century.

Hi Farhat

I'm glad you took the time to check these things for yourself, and I'm glad you found it reassuring... so do I!

That is why Revelation means uncovering, or disclosure... it was never meant to be a sealed book, but was unsealed from its writing.

Too many Christians today, I find, have sealed it up again :D

thank-you for your reply,

But I would like to ask you if you agree that the Jews were waiting also for God's final day? They believed the dead would be raised on the last day yes? You see for myself I see much of the prophecy both OT and NT as pointing to this same great day of God. I believe the faithful starting from Abel to now all have the same hope and promise made to them.

Thus the event of Joel have a much greater meaning for the whole world. Is not all mankind ment to be his people, yet so many are unfaithful?

Notice how in Joel 2 it speaks of the locust as the garden of Eden in front of them and the earth is burned after them? Remember the number 1 way we are consuming our planet is through fire, the burning of fuel in all of our various machines.

How are we, mankind, God's locust army doing his will? Because he created the consequences that come when we live against his will. Thus we have created a world system based on greed, selfishness, gluttony, and wickedness of all kinds = the lifestyle of the locust army.....

I believe this is also the fire that is refered to in Peter.

Digging

Yes it me,

we have been taught that Jesus could be that star, but jesus himself said he seen Satan falling.

As for your point about mankind not being the locust because the locust take down the system.....well if we keep going the planet could die.....how much taken down do we need?
Remember what Jesus said about Satan 'a house divided against it's self can not stand, a kingdom divided will fall.....
I can't remember the vs but I'm sure it's in colossians speaking of Jesus it says...' carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge..'

So if we follow that everything Jesus said has great meaning, and thus I believe he is telling us HOW this system is going to fail. The systems we have build will end up falling because they are working like the cold war thinking.... both sides will die if one goes to far....

well I must go, just think about it more...it is a very different way but it fits better than anything I have ever been taught.

Digging:whistle:

I will try,

In a few months we will be moving our home onto a new piece of land we have bought on the edge of town and then I will have PERSONAL net connection :clap: :cheer:

I know this point that I have brought up seems different. However the more I've looked into it the more I see it. Here is one more small point I've come to see in the vs in Genesis when God is cursing Satan and Adam.... notice the mention of two types of creatures in vs 3:14 both cattle and 'beast of the field' who or what is the beast of the field mentioned here? Notice now the curse on Adam 'you shall eat the herb of the field'....the herbrew word for beast and cattle are not the same.
Could not this be a reference to Adam now fallen state? Could mankind now be the 'beasts of the field' that satan is cursed more than they? Remember Nebuchadnezzar how he became like a beast of the field eating grass.... I believe there are patterns in the bible to help us understand the meaning of some of these symbols in Rev.

Digging

Digging,

Enjoyed reading your discernments.

I also think there is much in Genesis which extends to the Book of Revelation.

I also think that Nebuchadnezzar glorifying himself instead of God extends to the Book of Revelation.

What did Nebuchadnezzar learn in the wildernes?

What will anointed ones during the time of the end also learn in the wildernes?

Revelation 12
13 Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent disgorged water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. 16 But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon disgorged from its mouth. 17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.

Were the anointed ones in the wilderness because they did not properly observe the commandments of God?

Were they instead glorifying and obtaining veneration for themselves?

After the times, time and half a time in the wildernes will the anointed learn the exact same lesson that Nebuchadnezzar and his princes learned?

Daniel 4
36 “At the same time my understanding itself began to return to me, and for the dignity of my kingdom my majesty and my brightness themselves began to return to me; and for me even my high royal officers and my grandees began eagerly searching, and I was reestablished upon my own kingdom, and greatness extraordinary was added to me.


Nebuchadnezzar suffered for a while in the wilderness but his training proved to be very beneficial in the end.

Reminds me of what Peter said:


1 Peter 5:10-11
10 But, after YOU have suffered a little while, the God of all undeserved kindness, who called YOU to his everlasting glory in union with Christ, will himself finish YOUR training, he will make YOU firm, he will make YOU strong. 11 To him be the might forever. Amen.


Hope you get connected soon.


In Christ

abe

I've wondered often about all the meanings of the wilderness and types it plays out for us, perhaps we need to start a new topic just under wilderness?

As for the locust notice how they also make a lot of noise....how many here live near a highway?? Or an airport?? My house will rock sometime when the big truck go by!

Also the locust have breast plates of IRON....hmmm what do we make our noicey machines out of??

Digging

Interesting thread, had to revive it.

The locusts are nasty creatures. The order given to them to not harm the earth is similar to the order given to Satan when going after Job.

Have you ever wondered why the first century christians were so busy expelling demons? The locusts were what they appear to be, demons let loose on the earth at the time of the first century Christians to attempt to cause havoc.

Satan and his demons were barbarians. Not the subtle, wily creatures that many make them out to be.

In the end, they gave the christians the opportunity to prove gods power against them.

Locusts are the satanic army that will trick mankind into believing they are the Gods. They go after the saints, because they will not worship them, and will work toward the goal of telling the world to fear God alone and only give glory to Him, and Jesus, and that they are the counterfeit, satanic army, acting like they are the creator. They come right after the fall of the harlot, the woman of purple and scarlet, which is happening now. They are in the skies and waiting to act, and are also known as UFOS.

God is allowing this to happen to test mankind. Are you ready?


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