Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

I was doing some research just today on the foundations of the Christian faith during the Dark Ages, and was surprised to come across an article that said there may be books missing from the Bible. I had heard of this before on a Discovery Channel documentary, though at the time I though nothing of it. It had said that the Bible, as we know it, was composed of the books and scri[ptures most often read in Churches.

If this is true, how can we know that what we are reading is right? I actually pulled up several articles after this based on this arguement.

http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Are_Books_o...Bible.html
http://www.thelostbooks.com/missing.htm
http://xrysostom.blogspot.com/2005/09/bo...bible.html
http://www.thetruthaboutdavinci.com/miss...bible.html

According to a lot of people, the Catholic Church, and other churches after this, started to remove entire books from the Holy Scriptures. So I started to think about this, and I realized that if this is true, might it be possible that some of the original disciples were silenced? Simon, Thomas, Andrew, Philip and Bartholomew. None of these apostles of Christ have books in the Bible, in fact, most of the New Testament, I have found, was written by Peter, Paul and John.

How do we know what we think we know now is accurate? Does this completely destroy the theory of the so-called Bible Code? And why haven't the remaining books and possible letters been released now that we're in a society where the educational system in a lot of countries is so important? A lot of main stream Bible do not even have the Apocrypha! Many say that the additional books can be found in the Vatican archives in their medieval forms. Does anyone know where these extra books might be found online in any language? Or are these books only left to those that man has determined Holy? And another odd question I have is, is it possible that Judas Iscariot wrote something during his time with Christ? If it is, then I have never heard of any such indication. But for the missing texts, how can we know and follow that which may be incomplete?:read:

Hi there Serafina ...:giverose:

I have a view links that might help you and be of interest ...

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gospelmary.html

http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html

http://www.amazingbible.com/

http://www.earth-history.com/Apochrypha/index.htm

http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scro...brary.html

( Jewish Calendar )
http://www.hebcal.com/hebcal/?year=2008;...b=on;c=off

Even though many say that most of these books are not accurate in most of their descriptions of Historic events and times , sometimes we can still get an impression on certain things that can be of help in understanding some symbolic references in the Bible... especially when it deals with an angels possition and their work.

I hope you enjoy the reading but take it all with a grain of salt and try not to accept everything as a fact.

with much affection, LC :heartbeat:

Hi serefina

The books listed here are not missing from the Bible, they are simply books quoted by Bible writers.

For instance, in speaking to the men of Athens, Paul quotes from their poets:

"For by him we have life and move and exist, even as certain ones of the poets among YOU have said, ‘For we are also his progeny.’" (Acts 17:28)

Does that mean this poet's writings are a missing part of the Bible? Of course not!

Again, the books listed at this link are collectively known as the Apocrypha. They are not missing books, since the Jews themselves didn't consider them to be on the same level of inspiration

As the author of the third link says:

"The Old Testament canon was finalized by two councils held at the city of Jamnia, one in AD 90 and the other in AD 118. The actual books which compose our Old Testament were in wide use for centuries before, and in fact had been translated into Greek 200 years before these councils met. They in no sense "created" the Old Testament. And they completed their work two centuries before Constantine."

I think this author explains the situation pretty well. It is the Jews who were entrusted with the canon of Holy Scripture before Christians existed, and the Jews generally did not consider those books to be part of their canon.

Again, a great explanation of so-called "missing" books of the New Testament.

We have thousands of fragments of New Testament documents, as well as the writings of the early church fathers. Nobody in the early church were trying to establish an official "canon" of New Testament books, it's simply that many of these books gained widespread acceptance very quickly, such as the four gospels.

No, because the "missing" books are not missing.

They have. Go to any library or good bookshop and you'll easily be able to read the Apocrypha, and even stuff like the book of Jasher! Unfortunately, many of the writings cited at the first link are lost to us.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/

There is a so-called Gospel of Judas.

"The document itself has been carbon-dated to approximately the 3rd–4th century AD, and its text is undeniably from no earlier from the 2nd century, as evidenced by its introduction and epilogue which assume the reader is familiar with the canonical Gospels. The gospel of Judas is not claimed to have been written by Judas himself, but rather by Gnostic followers of Christ."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

This is the difference between authentic gospels, which received widespread use and acceptance, and were written within the lifetime of the apostles, and other gospels such as this one, by Gnostics, which were never even seriously considered by the early church.

The fact that the early King James Version, and the Catholic Church's version separates the books into a category known as "Apocrypha" shows they were not considered to be on the same level as the other books.

Hello Interpretum ...:giverose:

I didn't say that these books were accurate .. did I ?... I only submitted them to Serafina because she asked about other so called missing scriptures .
Maybe missing is the wrong way of putting it maybe it should be, not included in the bible.


( The fact that the early King James Version, and the Catholic Church's version separates the books into a category known as "Apocrypha" shows they were not considered to be on the same level as the other books. )

And who were these so called individuals who decided to put them together .... not Jehovahs chosen that's for sure .... one needs to check the history of who these so called Religious leaders were to get a better picture of what really happend .

I'm not looking to start a debate about this or show that there is a contradiction but just wanted to give her a link to varrious places for reading pleasure.

with much affection, LC :heartbeat:

Honestly Kaye, I think you've been reading too much of the DaVinci Code. (I saw you reading it yesterday.) :read:

But, I suppose it's a good question to ask. But even if there are books missing, would it really matter? Because each part of the Bible is a book that holds boundless knowledge and hope and messages of love, and so much. It's not incomplete, because each part is a Book in it's own right. :thumbsup:

Greetings Gemini

Welcome

Re: "Because each part of the Bible is a book that holds boundless knowledge and hope and messages of love, and so much." and...

"It's not incomplete, because each part is a Book in it's own right."

Thank you so much for this encouraging comment.

Christian love,

gogh

Hello to all of you!

A question that have caused me much of a concern is: How does it come that the Watchtower Society can accept the Scriptures in its present form, since it has been set up or put together by men or representatives from Babylon the great which they claim have the ruler of this world order as their father?

I'm not talking about the contents of the different books, but which books that shall be included or omitted.

Christian love to all of you.

Talkactive.

Ps. The Watchtowers hypocrisy in the blood question can be seen and are documented at http://www.ajwrb.org

Ecclesiastes 1:18!
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People can’t hear and carry the truth, because the lies are tickling their ears!

Jeremiah 8:8!
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

NB. It has to be mentioned that blood as medicine or any other medicine isn't good medicine, since there will always be side effects, opposite the healing Jesus and his disciples afforded, showing what to come, but in the meantime we have to deal with the life itself as sacred and be able to make personal decisions, to sustain the most important for Jehovah and each individual, the life itself in accordance to Galatians 6:5 and not being forced by threats and sanctions into a premature death, by man made doctrines, in opposition to what comes forth in 2 Corinthians 1:24 and 1 Peter 5:3! Like Tully and thousands of others haven’t been able to do:

http://www.energeticsolutions.com.au/tully_story.pdf

Among other places documented in Awake from May 22, 1994! Thousands have died......

Good morning ya'll ...:hibye::D:giverose:

I just had a wee thought on this subject ...:huh:

It was said ...

The fact that the early King James Version, and the Catholic Church's version separates the books into a category known as "Apocrypha" shows they were not considered to be on the same level as the other books.

I wonder ... to which 'LEVEL' in regards the other books I wonder are they referring too ...? And WHO was doing the 'comparing' ...?

As I said ... just a wee thought ...:happyheart:;)

Lots of luv ... your sis ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

Hi Talkactive

I'd encourage you to read a book called "The Books The Church Suppressed" by Michael Green.

It's an enjoyable read, and I think you will gain peace of mind from it.

Hello to you Interpretum and godmorning to you too, BruisedReed!

Thank you very much for your encouragement I will take a closer look at it.

To you Bruised- Red and yellow and blue, but merely to my comments, I believe you have got answer at your inquiries?:priest:

It is interesting to be aware of that the people behind the NWT from the Watchtower Society have cited biblical schoolars for and as references for the contents but when they are confronted with it they simply deny that they have been asked or involved with the NWT.

Furthermore when it comes to triels in Court, the men behind the Watchtower Society commits perjury, by postulate that they have the necessary knowledge to Arameic, Hebrew and Greek languages, which seems to be untrue and they have not graduated in any language involved as falsely decleared under oath!

For those who like to se things from different angles and both sides of the table, pls. have a look at this video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...watchtower

This is further proof of circumstances why and only the men behind the Watchtower Society have come to such an interpretation of the Scriptures, among other things, in question of blood, where it in Acts 15:29 comes fort to both abstain from blood and strangled animals.

They admit that to abstain from strangeled animals, was because the animal hasn't been bleed and therefore a strangled animal could not be eaten. (Insight in the Scriptures) They also admit that persons supporting an organisation who carries at much bloodguilt can be bloodguilty.

So when James wrote to abstain from blood in Acts 15:29 it wasn't necessary to give a double recommandation in the same verse, to abstain from blood directly and indirectly and in double sentences, when it comes to eat blood, but to abstain from blood means, not to be responsible for anothers person are going to die, e.g. build a house without a parapete, in leak of medical treatment at hand and not commit murder and be bloodguilty since the blood is a metaphor for life and not sacred as the life, but representing the life, because without blood no life, in a situation where a humans life was brougnt to an end and therefore as a natural fact, not to be bloodguilty.  


Christian love to all of you.

Talkactive.

Ps. The Watchtowers hypocrisy in the blood question can be seen and are documented at http://www.ajwrb.org

Ecclesiastes 1:18!
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
People can’t hear and carry the truth, because the lies are tickling their ears!

Jeremiah 8:8!
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

NB. It has to be mentioned that blood as medicine or any other medicine isn't good medicine, since there will always be side effects, opposite the healing Jesus and his disciples afforded, showing what to come, but in the meantime we have to deal with the life itself as sacred and be able to make personal decisions, to sustain the most important for Jehovah and each individual, the life itself in accordance to Galatians 6:5 and not being forced by threats and sanctions into a premature death, by man made doctrines, in opposition to what comes forth in 2 Corinthians 1:24 and 1 Peter 5:3! Like Tully and thousands of others haven’t been able to do:

http://www.energeticsolutions.com.au/tully_story.pdf

Among other places documented in Awake from May 22, 1994! Thousands have died......