Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi all
Just some more thoughts on my senerio

Our captivity to Babylon the Great is yet to come, but not that far off , its right around the corner in the coming NWO. . We will all be under one umbrella religion, under this one world government.

We have no choice its all in Gods purpose . it is then that the two witnesses the remaining of the Woman's seed starts their three and a half year preaching. Matt 24:14 and Rev 18:4
Rev 12:17-Rev !3: th chapter, and Rev 11 th chapter.

It is after the 3 1/2 years of gathering the great crowd that those that belong to Christ ( two witnesses ) are put to death . that is when Christ comes for his bride. 1Thess 4:15-17/ followed by the great Day of God Almighty.

When anarchy and the military get involved here on earth ,that will be the sign that war broke out in heaven, and Satan was cast out.

Rev 12 th chapter . Rev 12:17 = Gal 3:29 = the two witnesses.
The birth of the heavenly Messianic Kingdom and the counterfeit kingdom here on earth will run parallel .

During the 3 1/2 years the two kingdoms will be in spiritual warfare.
It will be then that we all will carry our own load. Each and every one of us will be faced with one of two decisions.
That is "to whom do we belong ".

Yes I said everyone, Jesus Christ died for all of Mankind.

Rev 18:4 will be shouted out to seperate ourselves, the sheep will hear and listen.

These are my thoughts, .there fore I am just thinking out loud..
love susanna :grouphug:

I would say the 2 wintnesses are only spiritually dead after the 3 1/2 years and not literally killed.

What do you think?
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Sorry New Truth , that isn't what the scriptures say:hug:

The scriptures show all those dead in Christ are waiting for their resurrection, but are told they must wait a little longer until the rest of their brothers are put to death
Rev 6:: 9-11 reads
9 When the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been killed because they were faithful to the word of God and to the message they had received.10 These souls shouted in a loud voice, "Holy and true Lord, how long until you judge the people of the earth and punish them for killing us?" 11 Then each one of them was given a white robe and was told to wait a short time longer. There were still some of their fellow servants and brothers and sisters in the service of Christ who must be killed as they were. They had to wait until all of this was finished.

The first resurrection cannot take place until all the members of Christ had died ..After the remaining ones are brought to life after three days for all to see them, as they will not be buried, that's when they will all be caught up with Christ. 1 Thess 4; 15-17/ (NCV
5 What we tell you now is the Lord's own message. We who are living when the Lord comes again will not go before those who have already died.16 The Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel,[a] and with the trumpet call of God. And those who have died believing in Christ will rise first.17 After that, we who are still alive will be gathered up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And we will be with the Lord forever.

Rev 11:7-8.
7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[a] Lord was crucified
Rev 11: 11-13 reads
1But three and a half days later, God will breathe life into their bodies. They will stand up, and everyone who sees them will be terrified.
12The witnesses then heard a loud voice from heaven, saying, "Come up here." And while their enemies were watching, they were taken up to heaven in a cloud. 13At that same moment there was a terrible earthquake that destroyed a tenth of the city. Seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were frightened and praised the God who rules in heaven.

I hope this helps

Love susanna:grouphug:

Hi all

We that are awake
This is really happening .starting today a summet gathering of all nations
invited to Copenhagen Dec 7-18 th ,
we will be tuned into the coming birth of a NWO. ( a kingdom)
A one world government will also mean a one world Religion.
All though it will have to be ratified in the US , it will take place.

Children are already being programmed by the government with the dangers of Climate warming.
Its been proven that is all a lie. The last nine year records show the climate has been cooler.

Lies, cover ups , excuses, then more lies, many promises already broken, and this is just the beginning. ( Keep in mind who is the father of the lie )This will be his counterfiet Kingdom.

Yes, captivity is facing all of us.
When this happens "don't fight it" , Its permitted , only to finish Gods purpose, with Jah trusting that those that love His son will not become part of the NWO, even though we will be in the world.

This is a part of Jesus last prayer recorded the night before his death,
Jonn 17:13--21 (Amplified Bible)

13 And now I am coming to You; I say these things while I am still in the world, so that My joy may be made full and complete and perfect in them [that they may experience My delight fulfilled in them, that My enjoyment may be perfected in their own souls, that they may have My gladness within them, filling their hearts].

14 I have given and delivered to them Your word (message) and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world [do not belong to the world], just as I am not of the world.

15 I do not ask that You will take them out of the world, but that You will keep and protect them from the evil one.

16 They are not of the world (worldly, belonging to the world), [just] as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them [purify, consecrate, separate them for Yourself, make them holy] by the Truth; Your Word is Truth.

18 Just as You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.

19 And so for their sake and on their behalf I sanctify (dedicate, consecrate) Myself, that they also may be sanctified (dedicated, consecrated, made holy) in the Truth.

20
Neither for these alone do I pray [it is not for their sake only that I make this request], but also for all those who will ever come to believe in (trust in, cling to, rely on) Me through their word and teaching,

21 That they all may be one, [just] as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe and be convinced that You have sent Me.

Take notice how verse 20 reads

John 17:20 (Contemporary English Version)
20 I am not praying just for these followers. I am also praying for everyone else who will have faith because of what my followers will say about me

This could very well be prayer in behalf of the Great crowd that no man can number that respond to the two witnesses. We of course will be supporting their message ,so we also will be covered by Jesus request.

Speaking only for myself ,as i see events
Susanna:grouphug:

What is the meaning of “We shall not all fall asleep [in death]” ?

Paul the apostle said that:

…we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]… - Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

And

We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed…. (1 Corinthians 15:51-52) .

If “we shall not all fall asleep in death” means that those heavenlies that survive until the last days do not die prior to being “changed”, then from what state are the ones that are then dead “changed”? Are these ones “changed” directly from the dead state, or are they first resurrected to their prior human selves, then along with the ones that are still alive during the last days - “changed” at once?

I have a theory that the heavenlies of old that have been dead until this time, along with the two witnesses group that are killed during the time of the “two witnesses” work, are first resurrected to normal human life to stand along side the heavenlies that have not been killed during the time of the two witnesses, and then the entire group are “changed” and raptured at once.

The reason I suspect this is that the “two witnesses” group are killed during the tail end of the 6th trumpet / 2nd woe time period, and told in Revelation 11:11-12 11 "And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. 12 And they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them: “Come on up here.” "

But right after that the 7th trumpet / 3rd woe “last trumpet” time period begins, where the “we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet” occurs.

So it seems to sound like there is a period between the 6th and 7th trumpets where all of the 144K group are standing on the earth - as humans - before then being “changed” and raptured together. I never did like the understanding that the "not all fall asleep in death" had to mean a prolonged time period, when Paul seems to be saying that "we shall not all fall asleep in death" - which sounds to me like some would not die at all.

Comments?


v r

And if you couple that with Jesus' comment about "this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur", it sounds suspiciously like all of those things must have been fulfilled within Jesus' (and Paul's) generation.

Just a thought... :shocked:

vrs 11 shows it. but some mis read it I think.

11 Then each one of them was given a white robe and was told to wait a short time longer. There were still some of their fellow servants and brothers and sisters in the service of Christ who must be killed as they were.

"There were still some" is the key phrase to me.
I believe the scripture that says something like for capity ,and for the sword each will be as they were meant to be. I believe that in a letter to philipians some are concealed and kept safe.

Just an observation

I suspect that the ultimate incarnation of the great harlot is yet future for the following reasons. According to Revelation 17, the harlot rides atop a “scarlet colored” beast “full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns” – that “it is also itself an eighth [king]” - evidently this is the image of the beast out of the abyss. This beast has ten horns that mean ten kings, “who have not yet received a kingdom”.

If the beast image and associated ten horns as the eighth king are not yet in power, it would follow that neither is the harlot yet sitting on top. This of course presents problems for the idea that the harlot represents the world of all false religion down through history. I think that general false religion is certainly involved, but I suspect it’s on a way bigger scale than the “false religion” that has been around through history.

As I see world events shaping up from Daniel and Revelation and general world trends, the coming NWO comes with a one world religion of some sort. Evidently there is deception involved for many or most persons that are considered “my people” by God, since at the time that the harlot is brought down the angel tells those persons to “get out of her”.

v r

:hibye: susanna and v r,
I very much enjoyed your thoughts!

I am in agreement with the resurrection of the total 144K to the earth first, then all being changed at once to meet the Lord in the air. Isnt this how Jesus was resurrected? There are no scriptural examples of ANYONE being resurrected directly to heaven.

I was thinking about the phrase "we shall not all fall asleep", together with the fact (my understanding) that all 144K must die. How is this? The answer could be found in Rev. 6:11 were those who have long since died are told to "rest" for a little while longer. This "rest" could be the same as the "sleep" which Paul mentions in 1 thess. and 1 cor. For these ones their resurrection will be to a completly new time era from when they died and last remembered. While those of the 2 witness group who are only dead for 3.5 days are resurrected to basically the same time in which they last remembered. Thus it could be said that they did not "fall asleep in death", as basically they missed nothing significant (only 3.5 days) in their stream of consciousness. Just my thoughts.

Hey v r , I enjoyed how you brought out the timeline of events in connection to the 6th and 7th trumpets! :thumbup:

sussana, I,m not trying to derail your thread on the 2 kingdoms. I just wanted to comment on these points. Please accept my apoligies and carry on with your original thoughts as I am reading with interest! :giverose:

Jayme

Dear Jayme, Please Dont ever apologize for sharing thoughts . You brothers /sisters certainly are not hijacking the post I feel your contributing some great thoughts
This quote of yours is excellent :thumbsup:

quote :For these ones their resurrection will be to a completly new time era from when they died and last remembered. While those of the 2 witness group who are only dead for 3.5 days are resurrected to basically the same time in which they last remembered. Thus it could be said that they did not "fall asleep in death", as basically they missed nothing significant (only 3.5 days) in their stream of consciousness. Just my thoughts.
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Jayme that is common sense.
That's the best explanation ever. We can support that reasoning with the resurrection of Jesus after 3.5 days. His disciples were all there to see him, Jesus certainly remembered what took place just as it was yesterday. He stayed on the earth 40 days in different materialized bodies to prove his resurrection, no one had to draw to his memory the events that took place, while he was asleep in death. so all this would support the fact that the remaining ones that are put to death are raised up in a twinkling of a eye.compares to centuries of resting and waiting. It was those who were slain earlier that were waiting for a resurrection that had the right to say .
Revelation 6:9-11 (Amplified Bible)
9 When the Lamb broke open the fifth seal, I saw at the foot of the altar the souls of those whose lives had been sacrificed for [adhering to] the Word of God and for the testimony they had borne.

10 They cried in a loud voice, O [Sovereign] Lord, holy and true, how long now before You will sit in judgment and avenge our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?(A)

11 Then they were each given a [a]long and flowing and festive white robe and told to rest and wait patiently a little while longer, until the number should be complete of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

If you take notice this first resurrection is just for the brothers of Christ which will complete the number of those who will make up the Royal Priesthood

>>>>>

Not only that but those remaining ones are brought back while the world leaders and all those that were in oposition to their preaching are still celebrating the deaths of these remaining ones. Can you just imagine the shock !!

Revelation 11:7-10 (Contemporary English Version)
7 After the two witnesses have finished preaching God's message, the beast that lives in the deep pit will come up and fight against them. It will win the battle and kill them. 8 Their bodies will be left lying in the streets of the same great city where their Lord was nailed to a cross. And that city is spiritually like the city of Sodom or the country of Egypt.

9 For three and a half days the people of every nation, tribe, language, and race will stare at the bodies of these two witnesses and refuse to let them be buried. 10Everyone on earth will celebrate and be happy. They will give gifts to each other, because of what happened to the two prophets who caused them so much trouble.

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Thank you all once more for your thoughts ,will try to answer later

In the meantime ,pay attention to this historical event taking place in Copenhagen . When this is finally set up, there may be no more use for the UN, ( That's another feature ) yet for the future. I think we are headed for the domino stage .

The best unbiased source I could find for this event is thru this Link. This news caster was invited, and most of the summit is behind closed doors, so you will get what's going on first hand from her and her crew. Shes well known, and is among those invited when ever there is a press conference.

http://www.democracynow.org

I am sure the JWs are sitting on edge, not realizing we have several years to go. The mind set with the JWs is when they hear 'Peace & Security then sudden distruction/ using 1 Thess 5:1-5/

Never thinking that we have no idea what "suddenly " is to Jehovah, besides that we that are set free realize that once it is made evident that the NWO is here to stay( a short time ) we also are aware that 3.5 years has to be set aside for the protection of the ( chosen ones ) to preach in a banned religious interfaith world. What takes place be fore that stretch, remains to be seen/

susanna:grouphug:

Dear Willa
I just felt your post should have a repeat.
I needn't ask, do you see what I see, because i see you certainly do
.I am so glad to see there are others that are aware as to what's going on,

What caught my eye in your post is Africa , I always think of those poor third world countries , They will be the first to disappear. when the NWO decides to spread the wealth,
Those third world countries will not be included.
Starvation as they have been experiencing for years will take its toll. They have nothing to offer the government , so the attitude will be ( if it isnt already ) " why bother its already too late for them .""
I think of those dear ones often, thinking they are just living for their next cup of food. Not even knowing why they are even here.! ( born )
Then we have nerve to complain ! Makes one very thankful for what we have, They don't even have the bare nessesities. Living in constant fear, and constantly running for their lives like animals. Can they even comprehend what being happy even means ! I doubt it.

The resurrection will be so great for them, not to be hungry anymore, what joy for them to be treated like humans. . To live in peace and safety.To get to know they do have a father in Jesus. Isaiah 9:6
This is what keeps me calm about them, knowing the promises that will be held out to them when their brought back.
I love your expression Willa
"Come Dear Jesus "
May I add, come " quickly" Dear Jesus.
Amen

Hi again
Was just thinking::thinking:
The environmentalist over there at Copenhagen that are demonstrating have a cute slogan it goes like this.

Keep the Oil in the Soil
Coal in the Hole
& Tarsand in the Land

I had to look up Tar Sand and this is what I found. Its only 3 minutes but its really very interesting, After watching this ,I thought to myself ,
some scientist dare say there is no God
http://www.canadasoilsands.ca/mining/

I was also thinking after watching this 3 min video, that this NWO, may desire to get things started for the earth to renew itself at the expense of many lives,,.
trying to accomplish what Jehovah God has promised, but it will be Jehovah that will accomplish the making of all things new.

In Jehovah's creation of the earth , it was He that was the designer of the earth replenishing its self , not man.
So this cleansing will never be done by man.

2 Peter 3:13 (Amplified Bible)
13 But we look for new heavens and a new earth according to His promise, in which righteousness (uprightness, freedom from sin, and right standing with God) is to abide.

Isaiah 65:17 (Amplified Bible)
17 For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth. And the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.



Revelation 11:18 (New Living Translation)

18 The nations were filled with wrath,
but now the time of your wrath has come.
It is time to judge the dead
and reward your servants the prophets,
as well as your holy people,
and all who fear your name,
from the least to the greatest.
It is time to destroy
all who have caused destruction on the earth.”


We are actually living in a time frame where we are at least seeing the beginning of mans plans for mankind,( satan wanting his own Kingdom ) even if it takes the four horses to carry out their devious plan. (engineered )

Keep in mind the dragon (satan) gave his throne , and power to the Beast,

Revelation 13:1-2 (Contemporary English Version)
1 I looked and saw a beast coming up from the sea. This one had ten horns and seven heads, and a crown was on each of its ten horns. On each of its heads were names that were an insult to God. 2 The beast that I saw had the body of a leopard, the feet of a bear, and the mouth of a lion. The dragon handed over its own power and throne and great authority to this beast. :read:
>>>>>
as we watch ,what is taking place its all thru the power of the beast. The goal is to sweep the earth of anything and anyone that will stop it from moving ahead,

The NWO s goal is to make the earth a Paradise ( kingdom ), as Christ will have it, but its not going to work. Making all things new will only come under Christ Messianic Kingdom rule..

Just my thoughts for today:grouphug:

Good morning dear sis:

Praise Jah and Jesus we people!!!

Thank you and everyone for sharing your insights with us, coz the more you share the "fatter" we get from eating so much good "spiritual food"! YUM :eat:

You all encourage me to keep digging :read::D

Just a thought to share, but could the wtbts and it's current victims/members be satan's very unloving counterfeit congregations during these last days and the final "cleansed" worshippers will all be on the "outside" being fed by Jah, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and our Bibles??? This thought isn't original, i know, but that's what i've been a "thunkin"! Brain Rash :funnyface:

Don't tire out everybody. Preach the Word! Be at it urgently!!!Come quickly Lord Jesus :cheer:

Much Christian Love and Prayers to you, your family and ALL:grouphug::heartbeat:
sis

Hi all
Well the Copenhagen summit is over with a deep disappointment to the African nations,so seems conditions must get worse, which they will, no doubt ending up in a Revolution .( my thoughts )

Hi Lee thank you for your thoughts.:hug:
quote:
Just a thought to share, but could the wtbts and it's current victims/members be satan's very unloving counterfeit congregations during these last days and the final "cleansed" worshippers will all be on the "outside" being fed by Jah, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and our Bibles??? This thought isn't original, i know, but that's what i've been a "thunkin"! Brain Rash
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Now to answerer this scriptural, the Congregations of God would be the Isreal of God, This would eliminate the GB from professing to have the higher calling/
Why ?
Because no son of God would stay with a Lie ,nor condone it.let alone support it.
We who are the other sheep were loyal enough to get out, so how much more would this be expected of those who claim they are a spiritual Jew. (One of Christ brothers or Gods adopted son )

We the other sheep ,know one cannot partake of the table of Jehovah and Demons too. we the other sheep recognize that when the self proclaimed anointed crawled up on the back of the Beast that they also became a unclean adultress . So if we ( the other sheep ) know this and take it seriously, then how much more should the co-rulers be in submission,

Yes I would say ( my opinion ) we that left have been cleansed and found favor with our shepherd Jesus Christ. That is as long as we remain no part of the world.

During the 3.5 witnessing of the real remaining sons ,they certainly will have promised Holy Spirit, and we too will have a portion, which we already do have in recognizing the remaining ones of Christ Bride still have a major rule in Gods purpose. which is to fulfill and bring a end to this old satanic coming counterfeit Kingdom.
weather Gods Temple has been cleansed already or not I really don't know ,but during Jesus inspection this is what he has to say to those who profess to be anointed ( a spiritual Jew , but are not ) this is what Jesus says to the remaining true sons of God, ( Christ Bride )

Revelation 2:5 (English Standard Version
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Revelation 2:9 (English Standard Version)
"'I know your tribulation and your poverty but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 (English Standard Version
Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and they will learn that I have loved you.

This indicates those reaching out for the higher calling that remained loyal to their Father that fled from the LIE or was d/f for taking a stand against the Lie that are recognized as apostates including the other sheep that fled or were cut off for same reason, are the ones that Jesus loves.

Jesus also adds he will make them ( those that shrink back ) know this.
This may not happen until during the GT while they are witnessing for the 3.5 yrs, with our support.

We have no idea whom Jehovah has chosen as his remaining sons but it will be those that have already been tested. This translation just about says it as clear as can be.

Hebrews 10:34 (The Message)

Remember those early days after you first saw the light? Those were the hard times! Kicked around in public, targets of every kind of abuse—some days it was you, other days your friends. If some friends went to prison, you stuck by them. If some enemies broke in and seized your goods, you let them go with a smile, knowing they couldn't touch your real treasure. Nothing they did bothered you, nothing set you back. So don't throw it all away now. You were sure of yourselves then. It's still a sure thing! But you need to stick it out, staying with God's plan so you'll be there for the promised completion.

It won't be long now, he's on the way;
he'll show up most any minute.
But anyone who is right with me thrives on loyal trust;
if he cuts and runs, I won't be very happy.
But we're not quitters who lose out. Oh, no! We'll stay with it and survive, trusting all the way.

>>>>>>>>

Now as for the members inside , or what was rightly said victims, they will be able to flee when we go into NWO captivity. I know this sounds strange but its the only way I can see it, ( which doesn't mean anything ).

The reason I say this is because in the NWO there will be no WT or printing of magazines or meetings. The sheep inside will be left to scatter, ( be on their own spiritually ). This is really going to be hard for them, as we have learned how to worship in spirit and in truth, where the WT has made them cripples. If they really are a sheep they will wake up even if it takes all that's coming to draw them to Jesus , it will be done. ( keep these little ones in our prayers ):heartbeat:

So even in captivity they will be set free of the GB, if ( that's a BIG IF) they choose to do so.

Those that do may recognize the true sons of God when they start their 3.5 year mission.

John 4:23-24 (Contemporary English Version) But a time is coming, and it is already here! Even now the true worshipers are being led by the Spirit to worship the Father according to the truth. These are the ones the Father is seeking to worship him. God is Spirit, and those who worship God must be led by the Spirit to worship him according to the truth.


Susanna:grouphug: