Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi, :hibye:

I hope you are all well and basking in Jah's mercy and love. I haven't posted in quite a while but check in once in a while to see how my brothers and sisters are doing. :grouphug:

I need your help and much needed christian advice. I am at a loss of what to do. I keep asking myself, what would Christ do? What does Jah want me to do? But then I think of family and the associated drama. :dontknow::crybaby: I am not sure if I have a christian obligation to act or do anything. Part of me feels that it is none of my business. Here goes the story:

Several weeks ago, I received two forwards from my brother in law's email account. The first forward was a picture that he sent to his own email account from his cell phone. The picture was that of a naked girl (tips of the hair, neck and torso). The second forward is an email wrote out to the owner of the picture, telling her how perfect her body is blah blah blah (disgusting and inappropriate stuff). I recognized the girl from her email address. The girl was his ex gf, an active JW.

I did not show it to my husband because I din't want to upset him. His older brother however, called to tell him about it. The entire family got those emails. My bil as crying fowl and saying that someone set him up.

This isn't the first or second time this happened. As a teen, he was caught watching porn by his granparents. The home computer (which hubby took) was filled with porn. A year ago (a week before his marriage), a similar string of emails went out. He was soliciting sex from craigslist. A short time before he, he used my pc when visiting. He left to the bathroom and I thought he was done so I picked the laptop only to find ads for soliciting stuff. He was responding to some. (I never told anyone what I say, not even his fiancee).

He is being groomed to become an elder. His fil is one. His wife is a 20 yr old pioneer, homeschooled, sheltered and thinks herself a trophy wife. She never believed any negative thing said against it (which is why I never told her wt I saw). His sister and mother are aux pioneers. His sister laughed all incidents off saying that's just how he is. His mother is in denial, she cannot afford to lose another son to the devil and so pretends nothing is wrong.

My husband (df) spoke to his parents and siblings about it. He adviced them to do something to help the brother. The response was that as long as he was a JW all would be forgiven OR just flat out denial or changing the subject. They were not willing to discuss the situation with a df person.

I am studying with some sisters. I haven't shared the information with anyone in the hall. I don't want to be cast as a liar or bring reproach and shame to my mil or be further ostarcized by family. BUT I can't sleep at night thinking of his poor wife. He is given more and more responsibilties and will probably become an elder a few yrs down. I keep thinking of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Should I point out the wolf to the other sheep?

*** Watchtower 8/15/1997 Page 30 Why Report What Is Bad? ***
The reporting of wrongdoing is an act of genuine concern for the wrongdoer. James wrote: “My brothers, if anyone among you is misled from the truth and another turns him back, know that he who turns a sinner back from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”—James 5:19, 20. So, then, why report what is bad? Because it works what is good. Really, to report wrongdoing is an act of Christian principled love shown toward God, toward the congregation, and toward the wrongdoer. As each member of the congregation loyally upholds God’s righteous standards, Jehovah will richly bless the congregation as a whole. Wrote the apostle Paul: “He [Jehovah] will also make you firm to the end, that you may be open to no accusation in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.”—1 Corinthians 1:8.

I thought of approaching the elders, but his own fil is one (and his mil + received the emails). I am scared to do this. I feel that I will be labeled a liar. I thought of writing an anonymous letter to the elders, I just don't know. Last time hubby tried to help, it din't go well (they were mortified and offended that a df would presume to help a aux pioneer).

Matthew 18:15-17"If a fellow believer hurts you, go and tell him—work it out between the two of you. If he listens, you've made a friend. If he won't listen, take one or two others along so that the presence of witnesses will keep things honest, and try again. If he still won't listen, tell the church. If he won't listen to the church, you'll have to start over from scratch, confront him with the need for repentance, and offer again God's forgiving love. (The Message)

Agape :heartbeat:

EDA: I apologize for this extremely long and sordid post. I don't know where to turn to for advice and wanted the 2 cents of like minded brothers and sisters.

Too bad you didn't keep the photo. Simply forwarding it might have convinced someone.

Personally, I've given up on trying to help Witnesses, because no one really wants to be helped, and the organization seems to try to protect the wrong doers while searching for those who study the Bible in order to disfellowship them.

I was baptized in 1950 and served as an elder for more than 20 years, but it is no longer the organization I was raised in. I have two sisters (and many friends) who are still there, and I just don't know what to tell them. :dontknow:

Dear Loyalty,

My heart breaks for your situation. I've seen this sort of situation many times and feel endless frustration at the double-bind that it puts one in.

JWHVACR said it well:

The unsuspecting Witness who reads all the good scriptural info that comes from the writing desk and is tempted to act on it is usually unaware that there are huge inconsistencies between what you read and how things play out.

The very fact that much of your family is in denial sets off warning bells. Yes....you may very well be labeled a liar or slanderer and perhaps even disfellowshipped as such. It doesn't sound like you have much, if any, family or congregational support.

Take it to our Father in prayer, sweetie, and leave the situation in his hands. If things change in the future, like you receiving more lurid emails, then perhaps you can do something about it. As it was said:

There is such a lot of corruption in many congregations and it is a severe trial to be trying to hang on in spite of it.

I pray that Jehovah and his Son, Jesus, strengthens you for what lies ahead.

Love,
Rez:hug:

The strange thing is that the entire family and friends got the email, picture and all. Several of the brothers in the hall did, his JW boss, a JW friend in another state, his wife and mil (his fil is an elder). They all brushed it off, pretended it did not happen! He still has his privledges, a visiting co & wife visited and stayed with him and he will probably be made elder, at least that is the common consensus. :angry::dontknow:

It is strange. The congregation is loving, the sisters so kind. But this latest incident I cannot reconcile in my mind.

Thank you sis, without Jah and Jesus, I am nothing! I am avoiding the family, I cannot pretend their behavior doesn't displease Jah.

It's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Well, the sad thing is that they've been told that Jehovah will never reject their organization... and the Jews are still saying the same thing about themselves. Nobody learns from history.:whistle:

Dear Loyalty,:love:

I have my own bags of problems, so maybe giving you my advice may not be the best source.:dontknow:

I do love our Father and want to please Him, so maybe from that standpoint, you may receive some help that may or may not comfort you.

1. My first thoughts were that someone viciously passed those pictures around his contact list. A scorned woman would do something like that. Why would he pass them around?

Of course, I could be wrong in my GUESS.

2. My second thoughts are that maybe the "comfort" factor is TOO uncomfortable, so everyone wants to "pass the buck". Silence is golden and Jehovah will let the right "people" take care of it. Isn't that how we were taught to think?

Dear Sis, just remember the brainwashing is so deeply entrenched in people's minds. From my personal experience, because I've had a difficult life, I'm equated to being spiritually weak. After @two and half years away, now, I can see that to be spiritually strong...you have to "buck" the JW mindset. Are you really prepared for that?

Being a sister, you can state your opinion and let the men carry the load. :siskiss: But, if you just can't handle the injustice, you may find yourself out in the wilderness under the palm trees, like Deborah. You'll associate with fewer JW's but will find more people who actually grieve our injustice and NEED strong people. It's lonely, rewarding, and confusing. Isn't that what satan looks for, the STRONGEST link?

Above all else, nobody is perfect, understanding other people's weaknesses and still loving them is being a true friend. We all need friends.:hug: If your surrounded by witnesses as your social group and need it with your family (example-children), your going to end up having to bite your tongue until it bleeds. Sorry.:cry:

Recently, I joined Facebook and made friends where my life fell apart during my youth. I have come to realize the petty teenage fights were not real, they were just opportunities for people to blow off steam or because something else was going on in their life. Our perceptions are only a piece of a pie. I carried a lot of being rejected from that particular point. My point to you is that while people's behavior may seem inappropriate to the circumstances at this time, the gears of life may not have them looking at the same perception you are looking at. I pray I am easy to understand out of this post. I've taken ill and am heavily medicated.

My prayers, love, and best to you, Sis Debbie:love:

Dear Sis Loyalty,

Twenty years ago I would have expected you to report every serious wrong to the elders after trying to help some wrongdoing as advised above by Jesus. Ten years ago I wasn't quite that certain. Today? Well among other translations and interpretations, I find the Message Bible is a little misleading when it comes to the context in which Jesus was speaking. First, what was the "church" or congregation he was referring to? Was it not with respect to the current Judaic system? The Jewish congregation?

And was it not true in context that Jesus was referring to a world of "stumbling blocks" after which Peter even asked, "Lord, how many times is my brother to sin against me and am I to forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him: “I say to you, not, Up to seven times, but, Up to seventy-seven times." (Matthew 18:21-22)

There was as yet no Christian congregation so that in fact this scripture was only a statement of historical value and not of Christian structure. So frankly there is nothing you can do to stop this hypocrisy beyond what you've done already. The congregation of JW's has already been corrupted as you have already so astutely observed, so preventing greater corruption is really God's work, not yours. You've done what you could. Let Christ do the rest.

Those are my thoughts.

Love,

sw
.

Dear Lou,

I am assuming that by brother-in-law, his wife is not your literal sister, and he is the brother of your husband, and therefore there are people closer to the couple than you who should be intervening.

Your brother-in-law is a sick person. He has a mental illness, and the denial will not help him. I know about this because my ex husband has the same illness.
When I discovered the extent of his illness, pictures, letters, rendezvous with women and couples, the elders were not interested. They said he had already apologised. Six months later, they asked if I was going to take him back. I produced plenty of evidence to show he was still doing the same. The PO asked whether these women he was 'phoning at midnight might not be business contacts. :shocked::confused::shocked:
Well he met with the elders again and said he was sorry. Since then he has lived with a string of girlfriends, and the one he is living with now lives on a separate floor to him.
He cannot make a committed relationship, and lives on his computer contacting women.

Never disfellowshipped.

So your main motive should be to help his wife. If you are not close enough, or she might not listen and others will shout you down, then you cannot help.
What elders and family members do is not your concern, it is theirs. You will have to let them wallow in their own mire.
It is a shame because he needs psychological help, and his wife needs support.

My husband lent his digital camera to my son to help with his art work. Some of the pictures were blocked and my son on his computer figured how to unblock them. They were pictures of naked women that my ex had taken.

The chronic and constant need to look at naked women is an addiction. It also may lead to more.
Your brother-in-law needs treatment. He will get worse and eventually not be able to sustain a relationship.
Do not put yourself in a difficult situation if you in the long run cannot help this couple.

Salaam vicky

PS needed.
both children grown, in relationships, monogamous, happy, and doing well. They speak to their father regularly, with the full understanding of his problems.

1Cor 5:1 NIV "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[a] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord." :dontknow:

Dear Loyalty
Theres a old yellow book from years back for organization rules .
Although they make you think they do everything according to the scriptures men entrusted to positions are trained to protect the organization at the cost of forsaken Christ laws..

Back to the book, there was a case presented about a bro/sis committing fornication. This bothered the sister so much, that she went to the brothers repentant and confessed
A judicial meeting was set up, the brother was notified of course, a Judicial meeting was set.

The brother denied all charges, the sister was d/f for slander, This book was out before a organization book came out. Some of you older ones that kept the older books may have it. It was yellow . the name was "A Lamp to my Foot "( something in that order ) . So what does this tell you ?? Unless there are two witnesses to back you up, don't do it.
That's why we have " Silence of the Lambs "", because these little ones that were abused didn't have any witnesses.

No way would Jehovah support a corrupt organization, For Rutherford to even name the Organization" Jehovah's Witnesses"" in 1931 was blasphemous.

The truth is not welcomed in the organization. I am sure many here have come to learn that, the hard way.
Sick isn't it !!!

There was a court case held in another country that is on court record out of states , if one is willing to pay a price for it. one can get the transcript.

Case was:
There was a brother who took his disfellowshiping to court because he was cut off for telling the truth, but he lost the case,

Why did he lose ?? because from the older bro Franz who took the stand in that trial brought out
""Unity ( in the organization "" came before the truth."" This was in the fifties.:confused:

Dear Loyalty my advise would be while you are still awake, to all the corruption is to RUN< RUN< RUN, before you too start thinking ", its ok Jah will take care of it."
, He is taking care of all things NOW ,for those that are still awake,
your not inside yet. Thank Jah !:happyheart:
love susanna :grouphug:

It was "Your Word Is a Lamp to My Foot" or simply the "Lamp" book (long titles were popular back then, like Life Everlasting and the Freedom of the Sons of God and Things in Which It Is Impossible for God to Lie). I think I even got the colors right :ok:.

It was released the year I was baptized in 1967 and carried the first recommended 80 prebaptismal questions which I hadn't read since I was already baptized. I don't recall the scenario you described in the book but I remember the strange rules even back then I couldn't get my head around.

Fortunately I can today since I now know just how much we've gone beyond what is written.

Love,

sw

Lamp book
Everlasting book
Impossible book

No snappy titles but you see how we felt.

SW
Quote:
I don't recall the scenario you described in the book but I remember
the strange rules even back then I couldn't get my head around.
>>>>>>>>>
Dear SW
believe me if you have the book ,then the scenario is in it.:)
Thank you so much for the needed back up..
Susanna:grouphug:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
I went to a spanish congregation.... did the same thing too!