Once again a thread is closed because of the Arians "righteous" anger toward Bethel Boy and his flood of logical reasoning and scriptures.
BB, you need to take this bible verse to heart,
Matthew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
It seems like the facts keep getting in the way with the Arians and they just dont like it.
Hi Yannis :(
I so hope I misunderstand these words of yours and that you are not really calling the fine people of this discussion board 'dogs' and 'swine' for not agreeing with you aand Bethel Boy (Wayne). If believing or not believing in the trinity makes one so then I am included in this as I am not a proponent of the trinity. I grew up Baptist and never was a believer in the trinity/Godhead and depending on the minister at the time neither did most of my congregation of my childhood--even the ministers were confused and hard pressed to really explain it. I am saddened that you judge us so--in my mind today there isn't alot separating our line of thinking regarding the divinity of Jesus Christ and his superior position in the heavens--yet I still maintain God is the Father and Jesus is the Son OF God...I start my day now with a bit of a heavy heart as this somehow manages to qualify me as a 'dog' and a 'pig' in your eyes. I have always held you in high esteem so it certainly sends me a blow and one I never expected to receive from a friend here at the cafe...I hope I misunderstand John...
with love,
wolfie :(
Hello Wolfie!:hibye:
Take heart.
Way long time ago, just before I was disfellowshipped, one of my brothers wrote to other members of our family telling them to quit casting their pearls before swine as well (in reference to their response to my newfound bible knowledge). I, too, though my brother was calling me a pig. Turns out, he wasn't meaning that, he was simply trying to tell them to quit wasting their time with me (which really didn't feel much better....).
I'm thinking that nobody is really calling anyone a swine here...it's just that the context of the scripture can be misconstrued in that way.
At least, I hope this is the case in this matter. :shocked:
This really saddens me.
This is an endless battle over nonsensical dogma.
Where is the love here?
The Trinity merely tries to explain how we exist. Can you have an atom without an electron, proton, and neutron? Can you get electricity from a socket without positive, negative, and ground?
It is the law of duality in this three dimensional universe... nothing can exist without the two polarities. Neutral is there to provide free will. Nothing can exist without all three together, but only the Father can exist in and of Himself. He needs the other two to manifest matter. It's just scientific law!
Stop judging each other over stuff that means nothing!!
:heartbeat:
Jesh
Hi Wolfie and Melancholymuse. :hibye:
NO WAY am i calling ANYONE here a pig or a dog.
I am soooo sorry if you felt that way Wolfie as that was not my intent. :(
Melancholymuse hit it on the head as to my original intent of using this scriputure. That it is a waste of time and of not much use debating the Trinity doctrine with someone so adamently opposed to it.
Especially here on this board with so many against it for whatever reason (predudice against Catholicism, affected by the Society's mis-characterization of it, or they just dont see the scriputures that way)
It is as if someone throws their jewelry to pigs. Of what benefit could it serve to a pig?
Again, i am sorry Wolfie if i offended you with this scripture. :hug:
And thank you Melancholymuse for giving me the benefit of the doubt.:clap:
I just dont understand this Arian cabel that consistently closes threads when the Trinity gets debated.
I have checked with admin.
The topic was temporarily closed for a number of reasons.
Bethel Boy is not using his own words but is cutting and pasting reams from other sites.
He is not using any new reasoning, since the words are just a repeat of what has already been said.
His phaseology is attacking witnesses, though few here are witnesses.
Complaints have been made to the moderators, so we are looking into the matter.
It is nothing to do with a sensible debate on the trinity, it is to do with the sledgehammer methods.
I have checked with admin.
The topic was temporarily closed for a number of reasons.
Bethel Boy is not using his own words but is cutting and pasting reams from other sites.
He is not using any new reasoning, since the words are just a repeat of what has already been said.
His phaseology is attacking witnesses, though few here are witnesses.
Complaints have been made to the moderators, so we are looking into the matter.
It is nothing to do with a sensible debate on the trinity, it is to do with the sledgehammer methods.
Good morning sis:
AMEN!!! Thank you moderators! I was feeling so dizzy from all of that "circular reasoning" i nearly fell out of my wheelchair!! :D
At least the info is still available to anyone interested in the "food" served up :eat:
Praise Jah and Jesus We People as We Keep on the Watch!!!
Much Christian Love and Prayers to ALL :grouphug::heartbeat:
sis
fyi: guilty of reporting that thread but enough was enough already :giverose:
I have checked with admin.
The topic was temporarily closed for a number of reasons.
Bethel Boy is not using his own words but is cutting and pasting reams from other sites.
He is not using any new reasoning, since the words are just a repeat of what has already been said.
His phaseology is attacking witnesses, though few here are witnesses.
Complaints have been made to the moderators, so we are looking into the matter.
It is nothing to do with a sensible debate on the trinity, it is to do with the sledgehammer methods.
Good morning sis:
AMEN!!! Thank you moderators! I was feeling so dizzy from all of that "circular reasoning" i nearly fell out of my wheelchair!! :D
At least the info is still available to anyone interested in the "food" served up :eat:
Praise Jah and Jesus We People as We Keep on the Watch!!!
Much Christian Love and Prayers to ALL :grouphug::heartbeat:
sis
fyi: guilty of reporting that thread but enough was enough already :giverose:
You know what llee? I am TIRED of all the Nazi conspiracy threads, especially the one about not taking the vaccine but i am not complaining to the mods about closing any of those threads.
My philosophy is if i dont like something I DONT READ IT. Simple as that.
The Trinity brings up a lot of passion and emotion on both sides. If you cant handle it DONT READ IT!
I have checked with admin.
The topic was temporarily closed for a number of reasons.
Bethel Boy is not using his own words but is cutting and pasting reams from other sites.
He is not using any new reasoning, since the words are just a repeat of what has already been said.
His phaseology is attacking witnesses, though few here are witnesses.
Complaints have been made to the moderators, so we are looking into the matter.
It is nothing to do with a sensible debate on the trinity, it is to do with the sledgehammer methods.
Good morning sis:
AMEN!!! Thank you moderators! I was feeling so dizzy from all of that "circular reasoning" i nearly fell out of my wheelchair!! :D
At least the info is still available to anyone interested in the "food" served up :eat:
Praise Jah and Jesus We People as We Keep on the Watch!!!
Much Christian Love and Prayers to ALL :grouphug::heartbeat:
sis
fyi: guilty of reporting that thread but enough was enough already :giverose:
You know what llee? I am TIRED of all the Nazi conspiracy threads, especially the one about not taking the vaccine but i am not complaining to the mods about closing any of those threads.
My philosophy is if i dont like something I DONT READ IT. Simple as that.
The Trinity brings up a lot of passion and emotion on both sides. If you cant handle it DONT READ IT!
Good morning brother:
My intention was not to offend anyone, but the point was made,over and over and over, so move on! Is there anything else 'they" preach or teach, coz i really don't know. Post it and i may read it and learn something new. :D
Much Christian Love and Peace of Mind to You and ALL :grouphug::heartbeat:
sis
The debate has been going on for nearly 2000 years - I doubt anything is going to be resolved on this discussion board.
If you are interested in the history of this check out the new book by Charles Freeman, "AD 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State" as well as the older, but better written, "When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity During the Last Days of Rome" by Richard Rubenstein.
If all we do to each other is call names and shut down discussion threads it is step above our brothers in the fourth century that attacked each other with fists and swords for their beliefs on the nature of Christ.
I wonder if anyone evr thought that we are allowed to be wrong and make mistakes in our beliefs on purpose?
I go thru all sorts of things that are uncofortable to my life.
One thing I have learned from it thru the years is to examine why I am uncomfortable.
EG... if I am hungry.. question? why don't I have any food?
Answer: Maybe I didn't work. Maybe someone stole it. Maybe I burned it while cooking it.
Problem: my stomache hurts from the hunger.
Solution: Steal, work, Pray, beg, ask, scavenge
Now from my upbringing I chose to 1st work to get more food, 2nd Ask, 3rd Pray, 4th scavenge 5th Steal
I realize this may not make much sense to some here but bear with me.
Notice I did not PRAY first.. I decide to take action to help myself.
But depending on each individuals religion/ upbringing
Some may Pray first, some might just ask
are either wrong?
I see it the same way with seeking to KNOW our Father.
Some take action, while other Pray, still while some ask. other do nothing at all.
Each has it's own pitfalls along with it's own benifits.
they all may lead to the very same thing. some may traverse the mountains, while others hitch a ride thru a field, some may have to cross river to get to the meat of our Father. But none are absolutely wrong it seems to me if they are trying.
So our level of comfort depends soley on which path we have taken.
But remember we do not see things the same based on each path.
So too we need to understand that LOVE is the only common denominator for anyone that walks the Path the leads to our Lord.
At least that is the way it seems to me.
WE can either chose to prove it or we can repeat the same trouble as has been around since Jesus was here. We may not know the exact details until the very end.
Well all I can say is that Ron took alot of time in his reply, pages and pages of it in that thread.
I was enjoying replying especially in regard to Gen 18-19 and Josh 5. In order to reply, I wanted to state my view point of God in order that my replies might make more sense. Things like " The LORD raining fire and Brimstone " from " The LORD " makes perfect sense if there is plurality of God.( like Universe uni=1 verse=many )
The let "Us" make and "Our Image" " Our Likeness " along with the singular "in his own image" "he created them" makes perfect sense if there is plurality with the 1 God.
( that it is the pre-incarnate " word " who comes in bodily form as the
" Messenger " in these passages. Many times when we read " The Angel of the LORD " or " The LORD of Hosts " it is actually the Pre-incarnate Jesus.
My one on one with Ron was going along fine until others chime in and say basically say in their own unique way shut up with that trinty stuff.
Starting a conversation on an ongoing thread should not start:
"I've never heard such pompous drivel " well hello to you too!!
Dear Gogh, Your dealings with me have always been, your thoughts backed by Biblical reasoning. That's the way to do it!!
Why people join in just to bash me I don't see the point.
Any negative JW comments were most likely from the article by Lorri Macgregor. Even when lorri makes comments they are not at the individual ( she would be pointing at herself too then ) but at the WTBTS.
However if I have offended anyone please PM me for a Matthew 18 apology.
Thx BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:
Hi everyone,
Just talked to Rez and apologized for posting after closure of the “Here you have it†thread. I was in editing mode at the time and didn’t see the red letters appear on Ron’s last post before I posted mine.
Yannis, I understand your frustration but let’s all just give it a rest. You can google tons of interactive sites and discussions that will receive you with open arms if you are Trinitarian. If you aren’t just try advancing your beliefs and see how quickly you get trounced and kicked off. Everyone cries ‘foul’ when they run out of reason. But manhu was right. Bethel Boy was drowning us with rhetoric we’ve already heard and hasn’t figured it out yet that it's nothing new. There’s a difference between holding a view and ramming it down everyone’s throat.
What I want to know from you though is, where did you get it that some here are Arians? Because we oppose the Trinity? Are all who oppose the Trinity doctrine Arians? In my research, both Arius and Athanasius had taken their issues to a political level—a thing neither Jesus nor his disciples did. Nor were they ever given that mandate.
Yet both Arian and Athanasius lobbied to have Constantine leverage Christianity to the political level of religious solidarity until it finally became Rome’s official religion. From there it was used to bless the troops into battle with its foreign states for flag and country. I really doubt that was Jesus’ purpose. And I doubt I’m alone in this opinion. No scripture would support such political involvement. Face it. Christianity was not to become a political state like Judaism. It was to advance itself peacefully into all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues. History has proved how impossible that was for any “national religion.â€
For you to continue to call everyone who doesn’t accept the Trinity, Arian, is simply wrong. Unitarianism, in its original concept, is simply an acceptance that there is only one true God, YHWH, His only begotten Son Jesus, and holy spirit—which by the way, was never defined in scripture as anything more than a personified mystery poured out at Pentecost, an interactive force that is debatable as even being a person.
So is Unitarianism a teaching beyond what was written? When attempting to define it, is it lacking in scriptural reference? But if you insist in teaching that the Trinity is Bible based and the only way to worship God or “godhead,†then expect some flack and a request for coherent, scriptural logic, because every other piece of literature comes under the same kind of scrutiny by people who are gifted with reason. So let’s all take a deep breath and be nice and quit brutalizing each other for not believing what we think they should believe, okay?
Love and blessings,
sw
On the topic of the Trinity, I am reminded of a brother who when confronted by trinitarians would ask a simple question: "Show me in the Bible where salvation is hinged on believing the trinity."
Hey Yannis!! :clap:
Hows it going mate? :thumbsup:
Once again a thread is closed because of the Arians "righteous" anger toward Bethel Boy and his flood of logical reasoning and scriptures.
BB, you need to take this bible verse to heart,
Matthew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
It seems like the facts keep getting in the way with the Arians and they just dont like it.
Facts????? What "facts", bro? :dontknow:
Come on Yannis, one side says one, and the other says another. I think both sides are just as bad as each other. Discussion between Trinitarians and Unitarians regarding the "Trinity" or "Not-trinity", is arguably THE MOST FUTILE conversation any Christian could have.
Also, this is a board that has a PREDOMINATE Unitarian base, and therefore a PREDOMINATE Unitarian bias. If peeps cop flack because they seem NOT to notice, or take into account this obvious phenomena --- then who's to blame? If a topic gets shut down because of being a subject matter of both futility, pointlessness and because it goes against the grain of the PREDOMINATE Unitarian base of the board, oh well!! How long would a topic on Unitarianism be tolerated on a PREDOMINATE Trinitarian board?.....NOT very long.
So, you guys will have to try harder to garner some pity from me, because frankly, you know FULL WELL what will happen anyway......;):friends::thumbsup::thumbup::happyheart:
Cheers brother!! :drinking::friends::friends: