Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

At the last supper Jesus partook of bread and wine and shared it with his disciples. We don't know what grain was used to make the bread. I could have been wheat, spelt or barley. they were coming up to the first fruits of the barley harvest.
A jewish woman would only grind a certain amount of grain ready for bread making. A store of three seah mesures seems typical. To grind the whole of the grain store would render the oils in the grain likely to turn rancid.

The grapes to make the wine were crushed in the autumn. By spring the natural yeasts on the grape skin would have created fermentation. Indeed Beaujolais Nouveau a young wine is ready by November in France. So by spring the crushed grapes would definitely have been wine.
After eating crushed grain and drinking crushed grapes, Jesus went to the garden of Gethsemane.

Gethsemane means 'oil press'.
It was in Gethsemane that the life of Jesus started to be crushed.
An oil press would crush olives whole, the wheel stands on its rim not on its flat base and the rim would run around a trough completely crushing olives stone and all. The oil that came out was used to provide light in oil lamps and particularly the temple.

Leviticus 24:2 Command the children of Israel that they bring to you pure oil of pressed olives for the light, to make the lamps burn continually.

So through being crushed completely, Jesus became the light of the world.

The two olive trees in Revelation produce oil for the two lamps so they produce light continuously, but these two witnesses are also destined to be crushed and their bodies left on the highway to be jeered; on the highway where our Lord was impaled.

vicky

Amazing! Do you attribute this to coincidence or inspiration. If it is by inspiration, that would go to prove that there is much more to scripture that is hidden between the lines. :thumbup:

When it comes to the way Jesus fulfilled his role as Messiah, I don't think there's any coincidence! :no: He completed, brought to fulfillment, the nuances of prophecy. Not really hidden, but layered more deeply - treasures to keep digging for and discovering with awe!

Thank you Vicky - that really is AWESOME!

:peace:

Hi Willa!
How far are we willing to dig before it becomes odious to us? What about the "Bible Code" recently discovered by Rabbinical computer experts?

Bible Code Predictions have been made popular by the book "The Bible Code" by Michael Drosnin. The author claims that there are words and messages hidden in God's word which can be found by examining "Equidistant Letter Sequences" or ELS.

It is not my place to try to support or disprove the Bible code mechanisms or the many Bible code predictions. I like to have an open mind along with an appropriate amount of skepticism of new ideas. I haven't read the book and am not very familiar with its findings. I understand that its proponents claim to have found references to many well-known people and historical events and supposedly insights into future events. Thus, we have so-called 'Bible code predictions'.

I would say, even if they have - so what? We seem to have a hard enough time understanding the plain messages of God's word for us.

There are proper methods that can and should be used to help understand the truths of the Bible. But they are no where as complicated as having to use a computer to search for hidden Bible code predictions. Also, I'm sure the Bible itself doesn't tell us to count equidistant letter sequences, does it? The wisdom of God doesn't seem to be a secret - how He wants us to act and react is pretty well spelled out in the Bible, isn't it?

Critics of The Bible Code say that almost any message you are looking for can be found, and I agree with that statement. In the end we believe what we're convinced of, using reason and some sort of proof system, historical or otherwise. To me, this stuff is too akin to gazing into a crystal ball, asking Sylvia Brown's advice, or counting the inches of a pyramid passage to coincide with anything to do with Bible prophecy - in other words, I'm not into it, lol!

So I'd say that if it's become an odious task then you've made it into a job and not the joy of the revelation of the Christ found within the Bible's pages. That's what the WT did to us - made learning about God's purposes and His Son into a dutiful job, when it should be what it is - an exciting and joyful experience of the love and salvation available to us now, today - not a time reserved for future events to be revealed at a future time. As for me, I do find these layers of revelation about Christ to be exciting and they only serve to build my faith more and more - not in any man's predictions, but in God and Christ Jesus. I don't feel that I need anything else - but I acknowledge that some people do need more 'evidence' or 'proof' - so, if it builds such a one's faith that the Bible is truly a revelation from God Himself, then I hope that's what they get out of "The Bible Code", if nothing else.

:peace:

Because of the nature of Hebrew it is easy to find codes, particularly since you don't have any vowels to worry about. Its a bit like receiving a very abbreviated text message and then finding out that you can read another message diagonally. We do not need to set up a computer to decipher codes, that would be ridiculous, I spend enough time researching the Bible without going into codes. Frankly that smacks of gnosticism, with hidden knowledge.


Isaiah 53 ties in with the thought of him being crushed for us.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's[b] will to crush him and
cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. NIV

Hi Willa, My point is that we should dig, but how far? You have expressed that the "Bible Code" is below your digging comfort zone and is therefore odious to you. quote:

..."There are proper methods that can and should be used to help understand the truths of the Bible. But they are no where as complicated as having to use a computer to search for hidden Bible code predictions. Also, I'm sure the Bible itself doesn't tell us to count equidistant letter sequences, does it? The wisdom of God doesn't seem to be a secret - how He wants us to act and react is pretty well spelled out in the Bible, isn't it?"

I disagree with you on this. What are the "proper methods"?
The Bible pointedly states that its "secrets" will be hidden until the end.
We now have the technology to dig much deeper then before and find deeper "truths". At the surface level, the Bible is ambiguous and contradictory, espically after translation. I think we are just scratching the surface most of the time! :thumbup:

Would Vicki have found what she did without the help of her computer?

I enjoy the digging I do and the level at which I dig. The nuggets I find are like truffles, I am probably a truffling pig. I need one or two tastey morsels to keep me going each week.
Tackling the whole of Revelation and Daniel at once would be daunting, but I have more insight than I used to on those books.

vicky

No but as christians we are very scattered. I suppose as some do, we could do a telephone link up, I could troll down to the library to try to find religious books. My Interlinear and Greek English lexicon brought me a long way though.

I don't disagree with what some of what you said, but we are talking about finding different things in the Bible I reckon. The things that are to be "kept secret until the end" will be - you guessed it - actually kept secret until God's time to reveal them - no one is going to find them out before God's time - no matter what extremes they go to try to dig them up. So I think it's not so much a matter of digging exhaustively to find what God's 'keeping secret' from us, as it is to trust Him in all things and remain faithful knowing He will reveal the things He wants when He wants - and being satisfied with that. I think it's what patience and trust and faith are about. I'm satisfied.:)

I do, however, believe there is enough - plenty - for right-hearted people to read in the Bible to lead them to Christ and God. Reading the Bible by myself is what first got me interested - I don't come from a church-going background. Reading chapter by chapter or reading about certain topics or historical people in the Bible - there are many methods of Bible study, is what I meant.

I don't think the majority of the Bible is "ambiguous and contradictory" - some passages, sure - and absolutely if someone is trying to get something meaningful from lightly "just scratching the surface". God's word is d-e-e-p, multi-layered. One must be kind of dedicated to finding understanding in it - it's there to be found, don't you think? Do we "know all" yet? Nope - surely I don't - that's why I think it's so fantastic when someone points out a little-noticed nuance such as this thread.

To me BibleGateway has been a blessing from God! - how wonderful to click on a button and fly between translations and references without having to own all those books! But if Vicky only had a concordance and her Bible she would've been able to find what she found the old-fashioned way just the same - because she was interested enough to do the required searching and 'knocking'. Understanding doesn't just fall into your lap - I so wish it did, but alas... it takes desire and diligence. And too - I've mentioned before that certain Bible verses seemed to pop up at me from nowhere - like it wasn't there all along and suddenly 'voila'! But of couse it just seems that way - that, to me, is how the Bible is such an awesome piece of work - it isn't all revealed to you at once, but gradually and with revelations about the truth told therein, so you can really take it to heart - God's law written on our very hearts. A faith builder. It's something of a miracle to even have it, I think! Even with all we think we understand, I think it's like an iceberg - so I agree too that we are just "scratching the surface" of the details still kept secret and the things yet to be revealed. To paraphrase - "No one knows the things God has in store for those who love Him"

I hope I answered your question e-m :friends:
Love to you and to all :grouphug:
:peace:

Hi all,
I have read the book the Bible Codes.

To the Christian, the Bible was written to bear witness to Christ.

There was nothing of Christ in the Bible Codes book.

Some of the selected words were bizarre in the extreme. If all the letters (consonants) in the Hebrew text are put on a 'drum' with different skip codes, it is not surprising alignments occur purely at random.
With vowels added to 'taste', "Bobs your uncle" and you've got another version of the Great Pyramid stone witness or the Ouija board.

Definitely a Skeptic.

Thank you, Derek, for a reliable eye-witness account. I endorse your skepticism and join you in it! Skeptics unite! :cheer: lol.

OK, Im taking my toys and going Home!

:P