Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi just some notes
The house of God the remnant will be judged first, (those that have the higher calling ) 1Pet 4:17 This will happen when the NWO slides into place, which is happening now.
As far as WT is concerned the WT will no longer have the freedom to preach or meet freely. Printing certainly will be gone for all Bible literature. They along with all other Christians and religions will be forbidden to even mention Christ . publicly ,It will be interfaith where everyone's God will be private , there fore we will be under one Umbrella or mixed into / with BTG/

Anarchy or complete unrest will have the military step in to maintain order , the outcome will be
bringing in the NWO.or Satan's counterfeit Kingdom
Democracy will be gone.

Its during this time that the remaining ones of the 144,000 or the Two witnesses, start their preaching of get out of her Rev 18:4 in other words to separate ourselves from all false religion. ( not to compromise ).
.This will also be when the mayor fullfill meant will take place.in Joel 2nd chapter. the message that will be preached in ashes and sack cloth will be a message of Doom, along with the Good News of the Kingdom. Matt 24:14

Then is also the time that the chosen ones or the remnant will have Jehovah's protection mentioned in Joel 2: protection, because they are breaking the NWO laws by preaching when it is forbidden. Rev 11:5

The preaching must be done because at the birth of the NWO, the heavens will have also given birth to the Messianic Kingdom, so this is the GOOD News that the true sons of the 144,000 will be preaching.

Their preaching mission is as long as what the NWO will last ( short time ) .
At the end of the 3 1/2 years the chosen ones will be put to death,as Jesus and like Jesus they too will be raised up the third day. Rev 11:7-10

Rev 13 th chapter deals with the NWO and the 3 1`/2 years of the witnessing before the end comes.

Rev 13: 4 , speaks about a death stroke that the seventh head receives which i feel took place last year with Fanny and Freddie , the healing of that stroke will be the NWO. ( take notice even though the seventh head seemed to be slaughtered she still hasn't died.) After a literal stroke the medical field will tell you there's always a change in personality at recovery.

example Democracy to whatever

the remnant or the two witnesses that are witnessing are the true sons of God and are turned on first . Rev 13: 5-8 they must put fear in the listeners , scare the masses ,not only that but what they are doing is forbidden by the NWO , after
this is the beast turns on the Harlot (BTG ) that's riding on the back of the Beast, that ends up devouring her.
Jehovah puts it into the hearts of men to carry out this execution of all religions. this is then all followed with Armageddon.

This of course is not accurate in detail just a outline
The WT has no idea about this NWO Kingdom coming or that it is Satan's
counterfeit Kingdom on earth as they are expecting Armageddon.
All the above must take place first. before Armageddon.

After they (the brothers in Christ ) are raised from the dead , the third day after their slaughter , Jesus comes to collect his bride and takes them ( all together ) to heaven . 1Thess 4:15-17

Jesus and they the Holy ones return to fight the battle of all battles which is the Day of Jehovah or Armageddon. ( time period ??
As rocky as conditions may seem, the wicked will be gone and the survivors will be on a cleansed earth. 2 Pet 3:11-13 -Zeph 3:8 Rev 11:15

The WT has it all wrong, they are looking for BTG to be turned on when it will be the Bride of Christ that the NWO turns on first Jehovah puts it into the heart of the Beast to turn on all religions.(BTG )with the sons of God being put to death first

Satan is behind the killing of the true sons that are preaching Rev 12 :17 at the end of the 3 1/2 years, Rev 13:7

House of God, - the remnant,- true sons of God,- brothers in Christ,- Holy ones , the bride,- two witnesses ,- temple of God,- living stones , spiritual Jew , anointed -the remaining ones of the woman's seed .
are all one and the same .
Rev 12:17 -Gal 3 29- Rev 13:7 Rev 2:9 Rev 3: 9

Some may refer to the NWO as the 8th king.

Just shareing my thoughts
love susanna :grouphug:

Hi Susanna,
I actually think there will be two three and a half year periods.
It is not a point I want to labour, except that some may think we have entered the kingdom rule at the end of the first three and a half years, relax their guard and become pray to satan's counterfeit kingdom in the second three and a half years.
I think we are in for a seven year period, as in the week spoken of in Daniel, where in the middle of the week sacrifice and gift offering cease. This is when the bride is executed, leaves earth and as they are the priests, there is no more showbread.
So I want everyone mentally to realise that after the furore of the first three and a half years, this is when satan is cast down and he sets up the counterfeit. Do not feel safe until seven years have past. And studying Daniel 12 this is seven full solar years, where not only do we have Adar but also an extra month Veadar, before total fulfillment.
Still as Revelation 1 says this will all happen quickly, en taxei

vicky

Try reading this ignoring the bickering
http://ewatchman-exposed.co.uk/research/...y=94#msg94

Dear vicky
I read your link, and I understand what your saying but that was then, this is now. speaking only for myself I see things differently then I did last year. The light will grow brighter ( clearer ) until the perfect day.

I know that many feel its seven years, in regards to the final witness by the remaining making up the two witness , But it seem hard to believe when three was always used for emphases in the scriptures and here we have the witnessing thru HS being done according to scripture as 3 1/2 years - 42 mos - 1260 days , All three times we come up with a literal 31/2 years/
I also know some count morning and evening as two days which would give one a day for a year if there is a week or seven years , What scriptures do we have to prove that Daniel is speaking about the Great Trib .?

Jesus was cut off in the middle of the week, which could also mean the Mosaic Law was fulfilled and died with him,which would also cause burnt offerings to cease .

It seems very unlikely that the rapture would take place after three and a half years then Jehovah would wait another three and a half years to bring on Armageddon. What's the hold up.? where are the scriptures ? By killing Jahs adopted sons was like touching His eyeball. Zec 2:8 Whats the delay ?

Those that already have died for their faith are laying under the alter since the first century , They are already asking how much longer do they have to wait (to be resurrected , and rewarded ) Jehovah tells them just a little while longer, until the rest of their brothers are slaughtered, ( the remaining of the 144,000.)

Revelation 6:9-11 (English Standard Version)

9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under(A the altar() the souls of those who had been slain( for the word of God and for( ) the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord,() holy and true,() how long( before you will judge and() avenge our blood on(I) those who dwell on the earth?" 11Then they were each given( a white robe and( told to rest a little longer,( until the number of their fellow servants[a] and their brothers[b]( should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

So after the end of the 3 1/2 years what would take place after the rapture if there were still another 3 1/2 years.?
We seen the greatest ever when all the 144,000 are raised up after the death of the remaining ones, and when Jesus returns to gather up his bride.
Joel explains it all , there will be so many events taking place while the witnessing in sack cloth is going on , by the time the two witnesses are slaughtered ( not just dying ) all eyes would see them (know) that the true Gods hand was in the picture, ,It would have to be made known that these were really Gods chosen ones.

If it were true that there were still a remaining three a half years,after the rapture what would happen to the Great Crowd that these two witnesses gathered,? and when would BTG go down ? The remaining ones will be given Holy spirit to prove they are from God.

according to what I read in scripture , after the rapture and all are rewarded crowns to rule with Christ , the heavenly Kingdom takes action immeditately.
Dan 2:44 starts Armageddon and Jesus Christ starts his 1000 year reign.
>>>>>>>>
Daniel 2:44 (New King James Version)
44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

Rev 11:3-15 KJV

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
>>>>>>
Then you know ,we may all be in for a surprise.

.susanna:grouphug:

After the rapture is the third woe.
After that the woman flees into the wilderness.
These do not fit into the three and a half year timeline.

After the rapture is the third woe.
After that the woman flees into the wilderness.
These do not fit into the three and a half year timeline.


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The woman does not flee into the wilderness after the rapture takes place . The reason the woman flees with the male child in the wilderness is because war breaks out in heaven .. All this is in the 12 th Chapter of Revelation.

No way would the rapture take place while Satan still had assess to the heavens.
It is these two events that don't fit together

Its when Satan is cast out of the heavens that he attacks the remaining of the woman's seed , Rev 12:17 shows that the rapture could not have taken place yet, as the remaining ones are still alive

Susanna:

I think the seals, trumps and bowls are all the same thing and unfold simutaneously.. or at the same time. I believe they all unfold in the 1st 3 1/2 years. Do you think this could be possible? This puts Armaggedon BEFORE the 'rapture'.

Oh, what's (BTG )?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dear New Truth
BTG is Babylon the Great or all false religion. Sorry about that.!
Keep in mind the Book of Revelation cannot be read like a novel
Revelation / must go backward and forward. It is not written in chronologically order . Meaning it is not arranged in order of time of occurrence.


AS for the bowls seals ,trumps all unfolding simultaneously, yes it will all be during the 3 1/2 years . As far as the seals go, that's exactly what they are which is , a waxed seal that has closed the scroll that is to be opened. Then the bowl is just symbolic of holding the plauge that is to be pourd out, then the sound of the trumpet is a message or command or warning. We will feel the effects of these symbolisims.

Please New Truth read the following scriptures carefully.


Matthew 24:29-31 (King James Version)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET , and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

>>>>>>>

verse 26 reads about Jesus coming.
He comes to gather up his bride , this TRUMPET will awaken them from sleep, please read these supporting scriptures

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (New King James Version)
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the TRUMPET of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


>>>>>>>>
so the rapture must take place before Armageddon because the Holy Ones are riding with Christ Jesus when he returns for Armageddon.

Revelation 19:11-14 (New Century Version)
11 Then I saw heaven opened, and there before me was a white horse. The rider on the horse is called Faithful and True, and he is right when he judges and makes war.12 His eyes are like burning fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him, which no one but himself knows.13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.14 The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, were following him on white horses.
Revelation 19:7-8 (New King James Version)
7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

>>> saints is another word used for the Bride or the 144,000

As you see from the scriptures all this takes place during the first 3 1/2 years.

There is no mid rapture because there are no scriptures left to take the Great tribulation into another 3 1/2 years/

We are also warned:

New King James Version (NKJV)
Revelation 22:18 reads
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;

Revelation 22:1

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

Hopefully this was of some help.
susanna :grouphug:

Dear New Truth
YOU SAY
I no longer believe that BTG is the empire of false religion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So tell me
What do you think BTG is ?

According to history , the departing from the true God can be traced to after the flood
So History will really support scripture here.
All beliefs , except those who know the true God Jehovah and His son, have roots that can be traced back to Ancient Babylon .

It was Nimrod who decided to appoint himself a King and rebel against the true God, the scattered ones that were building the Tower of babel all took their false beliefs with them. Rooted in most religions are a trinity, a hell fire that torments, immortality of the soul, everything that is not scriptural so we can go on, and on.

Like the Mormons teach one keeps dieing and being reborn from the spirit world until they become a god.
Now where did we hear something formiliar to those words ?
Wasn't it Satan to Eve, saying you will not die ,but you will become like god
All these false doctrines originated when the confusion of laugushes in bulding the Tower of Babel in Babylon. They were scattered all thru the earth , hence we have Babylon The Great.

Revelation 17 New American standard bible
The Doom of Babylon
1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you )the judgment of the )great harlot who sits on many waters,

4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,

5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, )BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF ©THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

15 And he said to me, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are)peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.

The Bible also states…

Genesis 10:8-10 (American Standard Version)

8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.

9 He was a mighty hunter before Jehovah: wherefore it is said, Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before Jehovah.

10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

Dear New Truth,
Nope no more thoughts.
You are not backing up your thoughts with scriptures so theres nothing to reason with. Gods word is Truth .John 17:17

The seven hills of Rome are teachings of the Bible Students so I 'm sure one of them would be happy to direct you to one of Russells volumes.

""She"" is always used in conjuntion with Religion/
BTG is pictured as a Harlot . Rev 18:4 is commanding true worshipers to get out of her.
if you don't believe BTG is false religion , I have no other thoughts
Thank you for sharing.:grouphug:.

Good morning and AMEN sis Stayawake/Susanna!!!

Thank you for sharing your insightful research with us, sis, when it's kept Scriptural is so much easier to follow along :read:

Just another "thought" to add:

2 Timothy 3:16,17:

16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
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We all may have our own thoughts and "feelings" about certain people, places and things happening in these last days, i.e. me: obama and crew and satan and crew, but these are the same "feelings" i had regarding bush and crew and satan and crew, etc,etc,etc, soooooo....i try real hard to keep my opinions to myself but sometimes they just slip out :redface:

Please keep on digging and searching and sharing until we're all on the same page with Jah and Jesus, the only opinions that really count!!! :D

Much Christian Love and Prayers to You, your family and ALL :grouphug::heartbeat:
sis

Hey Susanna!! :clap:


Hows it going sister? :thumbsup:

What if BTG is more than False religion? What if Babylon is false worship, which creates what the Bible calls the world? (gr. kosmos)

imo, Im inclined to believe it is false worship, Any choice we make that doesnt resonate with Jehovah, resonates with darkness -- making Babylon, the opposite of the Kingdom, or the world. Babylon the Great is called "The mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth" (Revelation 17:5). Some translations use "idolatry" in place of "the disgusting things" -- so if Babylon is indeed the mother of idolatry -- the origin of idolatry -- then it seems it could go waaaaaaaay back to the Garden of Eden, to the very first recorded instance of idolatry in the Bible.


"And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.” -- Genesis 2:16-17

Here God laid down the one and only Law, which divided true worship and false worship. True worship means abiding by God's rules. False worship means making your own rules, and the clincher came afterwards....

"Consequently the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was something to be longed for to the eyes, yes, the tree was desirable to look upon. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward she gave some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it." -- Genesis 3:6

The very first act of idolatry recorded in the Bible was with Adam and Eve.

In short, if Babylon is the mother, or origin of idolatry --- then its got to be a lot more than simply false religion.

As for the call to "get out of her" -- I think it is a call to get out of "the world".


Cheers sister! :friends::friends::friends:

Hi Susanna..

I would be happy to use more scriptures... :read:

You said:

Please note.. Jer. 51:7

Babylon was a gold cup in the Lord's hand:
SHE made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank HER wine.

The Babylon in Jeremiah's day was a country and a woman to God.

Please note Ez. 16, Jerusalem is referred to as an adultrous wife to God.. Other nations are also referred to as women..

Ez. 16:46 Your older sister was Samaria, who lived north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom.

Even though Jerusalem was the center of worship, it was also a country with land and laws, etc.

I think it's possible Revelation had a first fullfillment with Rome, however I think the main fullfillment is in our day.

The Watchtower has turned out wrong on many things.. are you sure they are right on the 'world empire of false religion', being Babylon?:whistle:

I also think it possible that BTG typifies, the center of the Christian world.. hence anti-typical Jerusalem gone apostate as the Jewish system had also done 2,000 years ago.

Dear New Truth

The scriptures you cited have nothing to do with BTG mentioned in the book of Revelation

If you put those scriptures your using back into context and read the whole chapter you will find they are speaking of Babylon as a then ,World Power.
All that was full filled when Babylon fell to the Medes.

Even though she fell as a world power, to this day we have traces of her pagan religious teachings found in all religions , hence we have BTG which is what the book of Revelation is speaking about.

Revelation was written in signs and symbols for the time of the end. That whole book is referred to the ""Lords Day. Rev 1:1-3 It is also only dealing with the New Covenant.

It has nothing to do with unfaithful Israel or the fall of Babylon as a world power.

I see we are not on the same page New Truth , but thank you very much for your thoughts. :grouphug: