Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

vr and coccus,

If you examine the features of the seven headed wild beast of Revelation Ch 13 you will find many of those features in amongst the seven congregations.

Yes, a bitter message, Jesus Christ's Kingdom IS the seven headed wild beast.

Christianity is not going to like hearing that!

It will torment all Christians dwelling on the earth.

The two witnesses are the two bunches of twigs of the olive tree.

They are not the lampstand.

If you read further into Zechariah then you will find that only two tribes stand before the Lord.

Jacob and Joseph.

It also states that they are the only ones NOT cast off.

Zechariah 10:6
And I will make the house of Judah superior, and the house of Joseph I shall save. And I will give them a dwelling, for I will show them mercy; and they must become like those whom I had not cast off; for I am Jehovah their God, and I shall answer them.


for I am Jehovah their God, and I shall answer them - standing before the Lord?

Seems a little strange however, it fits with what Jacob said would happen to his 12 sons during the final part of the days:

Genesis 49:1
Later on Jacob called his sons and said: “Gather yourselves together that I may tell YOU what will happen to YOU in the final part of the days.

Now if you consider that we are still living in the Gentile Times then these 12 sons are Gentiles.

The Jews already had their shot with the 12 Apostles (tribes).

So what happens when the Gentiles Times are complete?

I believe the 12 Gentile Leaders and 12 1st Century Apostles will be reconciled into 12 tribes in something Jesus Christ called the re-creation:

Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life.
30 “But many that are first will be last and the last first.


The first are the 12, 1st Century Apostles.


I believe "the last" are represented by the 12 sons of Jacob mentioned in Genesis Chapter 49.

In my opinion the Bible is indicating that the Gentiles blow their chance big time!


Bitter sweet?


In Christ


abe

Abe, the twelve tribes of Isreal are not the same as the spiritual Israel.
Jacob here was telling his sons what was going to become of them in the near future , as individuals .He talks to each one of his sons before he dies. Read the whole chapter of Gen 49. it was very interesting. Also self explainatory.
Genesis 49 (New Living Translation)

Genesis 49:1 & 10
Jacob’s Last Words to His Sons
1 Then Jacob called together all his sons and said, “Gather around me, and I will tell you what will happen to each of you in the days to come.
10 The scepter will not depart from Judah,
nor the ruler’s staff from his descendants,[a]
until the coming of the one to whom it belongs,[b]
the one whom all nations will honor.

>>>>>>>>>
Jacobs son Judah would be the tribe that would introduce the promised seed,Jesus Christ.
Since Christ and down to our day the twelve tribes are Spiritual Israel.

The records of the literal twelve tribes were all destroyed when the temple was destroyed along with the whole Jewish system of things.in 70 AD .
From then on in we have the Israel of God. The Apostles knew that they belonged to Spiritual Israel. Paul gave a beautiful Drama found in Gal 4::21-31 of this new change,
The Mosaic Law had been full filled in Christ ,A New Covenant had been inaugurated by Christ shed blood.. Scripture tell us that Christ came not to break the ( Mosaic ) Law but to fulfill it.

Understanding this, then we can better understand
James 1:1 (New Living Translation)

James 1:1
Greetings from James
This letter is from James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I am writing to the “twelve tribes”—Jewish believers scattered abroad.

Greetings!

These are my thoughts on How I see this picture.
love susanna :grouphug:

susanna,

The story of Josephs life finishes in Chapter 50 (the next chapter).

Are you implying by your post that those were Jacobs "final part of the days" blessings meant for Joseph?

If so, I don't see how the blessings in the previous chapter were fulfilled.

I find it interesting how Micah addresses the "heads of Jacob".

Micah 3
1 And I proceeded to say: “Hear, please, YOU heads of Jacob and YOU commanders of the house of Israel. Is it not YOUR business to know justice? 2 YOU haters of what is good and lovers of badness, tearing off their skin from people and their organism from off their bones; 3 YOU the ones who have also eaten the organism of my people, and have stripped their very skin from off them, and smashed to pieces their very bones, and crushed [them] to pieces like what is in a widemouthed pot and like flesh in the midst of a cooking pot. 4 At that time they will call to Jehovah for aid, but he will not answer them. And he will conceal his face from them in that time, according as they committed badness in their dealings.
5 “This is what Jehovah has said against the prophets that are causing my people to wander, that are biting with their teeth and that actually call out, ‘Peace!’ that, when anyone does not put [something] into their mouths, also actually sanctify war against him,



and also how closely that fits with the last wild beast in Daniel 7


Daniel 7:7
“After this I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! a fourth beast, fearsome and terrible and unusually strong. And it had teeth of iron, big ones. It was devouring and crushing, and what was left it was treading down with its feet. And it was something different from all the [other] beasts that were prior to it, and it had ten horns.


In Christ

abe

Dear Abe
Your question

Are you implying by your post that those were Jacobs "final part of the days" blessings meant for Joseph?

Answer No !

What I am saying is the literal 12 tribes of Israel belonged to the God of Israel ( Jehovah ) up until Jehovah aloud the Roman armies to destroy the Jewish system, His son Jesus warned spiritual Israel ( Jesus bride ) that it was a sure thing.
This is found in Matt 24;where Jesus is answering a two fold question..
Matthew 24:1-3 (English Standard Version)

Matthew 24
Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple

1 Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. 2 But he answered them, "You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down."

Signs of the Close of the Age

3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?"
This was said
shortly after Jesus said there would not be a stone left upon a stone of the then Jewish Temple .
>>>>>>>>
It is the Christian Jews who fled out of Jerusalem before its destruction, they were the beginning of the Spiritual tribes, it was these living stones who were being built into the Temple of God. , It is those now living and worshiping in spirit an in truth that will be chosen to complete Gods spiritual Temple.
It is these that make up the Israel of God. It was this Chistian remnant that the promises to Abraham were fullfilled thru Christ .

When Jesus said, the Jewish Temple would be torn down but he would rebuild it in three days, Jesus was speaking about his resurrection.

It was then that Jesus became the Head of Gods spiritual Temple.

The book of Revelation is the fulfillment of Gods Spiritual Temple.

Abe the only way your going to see this is , if you let go of the literal Twelve tribes.

Trying to put something literal into some thing spiritual ( especially when one was destroyed and replaced ) ..(Twelve tribes ) just wont work.

I really cant say much more on this subject. Sorry ! Abe were just not on the same page.

This is what has been unfolding since the day of Pentecost following the out pouring of holy Spirit. . We are now seeing scenes from what John describes as the Lords Day.

Just in case you haven't read this , this is the situation.
Galatians 4:21-31 (New Century Version)

The Example of Hagar and Sarah

21 Some of you still want to be under the law. Tell me, do you know what the law says?22 The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons. The mother of one son was a slave woman, and the mother of the other son was a free woman.23 Abraham's son from the slave woman was born in the normal human way. But the son from the free woman was born because of the promise God made to Abraham.
24 This story teaches something else: The two women are like the two agreements between God and his people. One agreement is the law that God made on Mount Sinai,[a] and the people who are under this agreement are like slaves. The mother named Hagar is like that agreement. 25 She is like Mount Sinai in Arabia and is a picture of the earthly city of Jerusalem. This city and its people are slaves to the law. 26 But the heavenly Jerusalem, which is above, is like the free woman. She is our mother. 27 It is written in the Scriptures:
"Be happy, Jerusalem.
You are like a woman who never gave birth to children.
Start singing and shout for joy.
You never felt the pain of giving birth,
but you will have more children
than the woman who has a husband." — Isaiah 54:1

28 My brothers and sisters, you are God's children because of his promise, as Isaac was then. 29 The son who was born in the normal way treated the other son badly. It is the same today.30 But what does the Scripture say? "Throw out the slave woman and her son. The son of the slave woman should not inherit anything. The son of the free woman should receive it all."31 So, my brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.


One is literal , One is Spiritual.
We belong to the SPIRITUAL. This is the New Covenant brought in , by Christ shed blood.

love susanna:grouphug:

Susanna,

Spiritually or literally those blessings bestowed by Jacob are going to be fulfilled.

I say going to be fulfilled because I have not yet been able to match them up with anything. If you can then please help.

In the first century I do not think it was a coincidence that 12 Apostles were chosen.

These 12 Apostles have an opportunity to be leaders of the 12 literal and spiritual tribes of Israel.

After all, they were in fact real literal men as well as being spiritual; "sons of Jacob".

So do Jacobs blessings apply to them?

If you can make those blessings match to the literal 12 Apostles then Jacobs blessings are fulfilled.

Jesus Christ however, implied that there would be others:

Matthew 19
27 Then Peter said to him in reply: “Look! We have left all things and followed you; what actually will there be for us?” 28 Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life. 30 “But many that are first will be last and the last first.

Will they be judging real people?

If so, then the 12 tribes in the re-creation are literal.

Then who are the first and who are the last?

Are Jacobs literal sons the first and the spiritual sons, the 1st Century Apostles the last?

or

Are the 1st Century Apostles the first and the last 12 other literal men who show up during the; "final part of the days" as spiritual sons of Jacob also?

If you have read Genesis Chapter 49 then you already know that only two of the sons of Jacob get an extraordinary blessing.

Are those two the literal sons of Jacob, or two of the 1st Century Apostles (spiritual sons of Jacob), or two others who appear during the; "final part of the days"?

Having read Genesis Chapter 49 you have already noticed that the remaining 10 sons receive something more of a malediction than a blessing.

Spiritual or literal it is still not a pleasant future for those 10 sons.

So what goes wrong for those 10 sons?

I believe that the Book of Revelation answers that very important question:


Revelation 17:12
“And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].”


Judas Iscariot proved to be a; "son of destruction".

Does the bible anywhere indicate that another son of destruction will appear in the final part of the days?

Yes!

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction

Could all of that just be coincidence?

If 10 of the spiritual sons of Jacob are indicated in Revelation then there should also be evidence for 2 of those sons to received the promised blessing.

Is there evidence?

Yes!

Revelation 11:3
And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.” 4 These are [symbolized by] the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth.

Could that be the fulfillment of Jacobs blessings in Genesis Chapter 49?

I personally think that Zechariah gives the answer:


Zechariah 10:6
And I will make the house of Judah superior, and the house of Joseph I shall save. And I will give them a dwelling, for I will show them mercy; and they must become like those whom I had not cast off; for I am Jehovah their God, and I shall answer them


If Judah and Joseph are not cast off does that mean the other 10 sons are cast off?

I think so.

So who does get to sit on those 12 thrones in the re-creation?


But many that are first will be last and the last first


In Christ

abe

Revelation 17:12
“And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].”


Abe first of all we can not make scripture fit , if it doesn't .
The above is not speaking of the ten sons of Jacob , nor is it speaking of the Ten tribes of Israel.
The Ten tribes are lost they are scattered among the nations over in the mid east , that's why the Jews can only make the claim that they belong to Abraham, just as the Arabs make the same claim
The literal tribes are gone.,

Maybe if you start a thread on these blessings , you may get more responses, a lot of the friends don't like to break up a thread.

As for me Abe, I did my best in trying to answer your questions.
I said all I could with out going beyond what is written,( speaking for myself ) I am sure others know way more then I do when it comes to the literal tribes of Israel.
I just don't want to stir this thread onto another subject , there's too much coming up ,that is if we will still have this freedom.:dontknow:
I'm sorry .!
Love susanna :grouphug:

Susanna,

The ten lost tribes were lost well before the 1st Century and yet there was still 12 Apostles appointed who might have an opportunity to sit on those 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

In regards to who actually gets to sit on those twelve thrones is a discussion about the real New World Order.

So I think Revelation 13 does indeed have much to do with the NWO and the topic of this discussion.

Although I believe that the NWO the banksters and the corrupted global elite are imagining will be nothing at all like the final outcome.

I think the spiritual sons of Jacob will be their adversaries:


Psalms 149:1-9

1 Praise Jah, YOU people!
Sing to Jehovah a new song,
His praise in the congregation of loyal ones.

2 Let Israel rejoice in its grand Maker,
The sons of Zion—let them be joyful in their King.

3 Let them praise his name with dancing.
With the tambourine and the harp let them make melody to him.

4 For Jehovah is taking pleasure in his people.
He beautifies the meek ones with salvation.

5 Let the loyal ones exult in glory;
Let them cry out joyfully on their beds.

6 Let the songs extolling God be in their throat,
And a two-edged sword be in their hand,

7 To execute vengeance upon the nations,
Rebukes upon the national groups,

8 To bind their kings with shackles
And their glorified ones with fetters of iron,

9 To execute upon them the judicial decision written.
Such splendor belongs to all his loyal ones.
Praise Jah, YOU people!



In Christ

abe

Comment from Abe

So I think Revelation 13 does indeed have much to do with the NWO and the topic of this discussion.

Although I believe that the NWO the banksters and the corrupted global elite are imagining will be nothing at all like the final outcome.

I think the spiritual sons of Jacob will be their adversaries:
>>>>>>>>>
Abe you are absolutely right . They are in for a big surprise .:read:
Thank you for your comments.:thumbup:
love susanna:grouphug:

Matthew 19
27 Then Peter said to him in reply: “Look! We have left all things and followed you; what actually will there be for us?” 28 Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
>>>>>>
Ok abe these two scriptures must have recorded in my mind when I read it , because thoughts of them came up the other day, and it hit me as to what Jesus was saying. So maybe this will help with a conclusion of our dsicussion, as I really haven't anymore thoughts about the 12 tribes. sorry!

So here goes, hope you all can see what I'm explaining .
Yes, according to what I see in these scriptures Jesus is telling the 12 apostles that they will be Judging the 12 tribes of Israel./ The one being literal and the one being spiritual..( the co-rulers with Christ in Heaven, and the literal 12 Tribes that will be physical individuals here on earth.
This will take place after Armageddon, when the righteous ( those that knew the True God ) are brought back in the resurrection. ( first )


>>>>>>>>>
Will they be judging real people?

Yes the 12 tribes will be made up of real people , all had the hope of living on earth. when they died.

but they are not the tribes that are going to rule with Christ., nor will they be Tribes in the resurrection, ( that OLD LAW was fulfilled in Christ.
each person will be a individual working out their own salvation. Getting to know they had the grand opportunity to become a Royal Priest hood, but they as a nation rejected Jehovah"s son.
They are the 12 tribes that will be judged by the 12 spiritual tribes.
Look at it this way they will be given the grand opportunity to find out all about the promised seed Jesus Christ that came from one of their tribes which was Judah

.
Christ Kingdom has a extension of 1000 years beyond the new world counterfeit Kingdom,

The counterfeit Kingdom is short lived, besides No way can it bring back those that have died,

Christ Millennial of a thousand years rule is also called "Judgement Day ", This is where the Resurrection of the " righteous and the unrighteous" will take place.here on earth.
Being that it is Judgement Day, also indicates that Christ is ruling with his Bride and the first resurrection ( heavenly ) is completed.

Love susanna:grouphug:

Hello fellow christians on this thread,
I've not been here for a long while, but I read a lot of the material you have collectively put here on this tread. I was joyfully :thumbsup: surprised that you have come to same conclusions as I have while I've been absent. That the NWO will rule 3,5 years and heavily persecute christians. And I've also been thinking about who really is Babylon the Great and much points to USA with its secret societies (having close ties to Washington DC, the Vatican and London City) ruling the country and decieving the rest of the world. On youtube there is a lot of information available still, but for how long is not sure. In the news lately they have announced that google is going to shut down internet neutrality.

May the holy spirit guide us into all the truth
And may everyone spreading the truth be blessed! :heartbeat:
Your brother Jan

Hi Jan
thank you so much for making known your presence .Hope your here to stay.:)

Yes the one world government has a Major role to play in Jehovah's purpose.
Most of the scriptures that were used by the WTBTS (JW's ) for 1914-1918 will find their fulfillment in the last half of the seven week agreement mentioned in
Daniel 9:27 (Amplified Bible)
27And he shall enter into a strong and firm covenant with the many for one week [seven years]. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease [for the remaining three and one-half years]; and upon the wing or pinnacle of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate, until the full determined end is poured out on the desolator.

I have come to believe ( lately ) that being that 'All things that were written before were written for our instruction of things to come , on a MAJOR FULLFILLMENT ..

I now see Babylon the GREAT for exactly what the scriptures call her . She's not just one entity but the whole New world Order (666)

Christ True followers are not apart of her,

( I am speaking about those that are worshiping in spirit and in Truth.

That's the reason True Christians will be hated during the last says. That is why the remaining bride ( two witnesses ) will have divine (Holy Spirit ) protection

One of their calls will be to " get out of her my people " Rev 18:4

There will be no place to run except to separate our selves from the world as we will be no part of BTG. ( NWO )

We can better under stand Jesus last prayer to his Father in John 17: 14-20 in this regard .(Amplified Bible)

14I have given and delivered to them Your word (message) and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world [do not belong to the world], just as I am not of the world.

15I do not ask that You will take them out of the world, but that You will keep and protect them from the evil one.

16They are not of the world (worldly, belonging to the world), [just] as I am not of the world.

17Sanctify them [purify, consecrate, separate them for Yourself, make them holy] by the Truth; Your Word is Truth.

18 Just as You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.

19 And so for their sake and on their behalf I sanctify (dedicate, consecrate) Myself, that they also may be sanctified (dedicated, consecrated, made holy) in the Truth.

20 Neither for these alone do I pray [it is not for their sake only that I make this request], but also for all those who will ever come to believe in (trust in, cling to, rely on) Me through their word and teaching,

>>>>>>>

Gods people were taken into captivity in ancient Babylon, so on a GRANDER scale we too will be in captivity all under one umbrella. This is Satan's Kingdom, and no way is he going to allow Christ True followers to ruin it for him

Do you believe the JW's will adhere or listen to the two witnesses ?

Not as long as they are clinging to their unfaithful slave. They would not dare!

The real sons of God and their companions will be apostates as we are at present as far as the JWs are concerned..

Should one of us that has broken free from the JW organization direct one of our loved ones THEN to the witnessing that will be going on, what do you believe would happen ?

because we are already worshipping in spirit and in truth.,When Gods holy spirit is with His adopted sons we certainly will have a share of His spirit,so no need to fear man, We will aid in looking out for Jahs sons. ( discreetly.)

We will be under law forbidden to witness, that's why for Holy spirit for the 3.5 mission that the two Witnesses have to accomplish.

The revealing of the sons of God will be the BOLD ones.. Matt 25 31-40.

This should be easy for us to stay obedient to the laws ,as we already know how to worship in Spirit and in Truth.

John 4:23-24 (Amplified Bible)

A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.

God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).

>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes I am sure we as the brides companions will also be witnessing discreetly when ever there is a opening to tell about the birth of the messianic Kingdom. when the time comes..

I guess I am witting all this now for fear as Jan brought out we may not have this privilege forever.

Look at Beau he's always proclaiming the Kingdom of God ". Jehovah is pleased I'm sure .":clap:

It isn't until the woman gives birth to the Messianic Kingdom . that war breaks out in heaven. We will know when this takes place because the war in heaven and the war against the remaining bride of Christ will be running parallel..(3.5 years )The Kingdom (male child ) will be taken to Jehovah's throne for protection until it can be occupied and start ruling.

This will take place after the first resurrection takes place and Christ awakens his Bride for their journey.

1Thess 4:13-17

>>>>>

Revelation 12:17 (Amplified Bible)

17So then the dragon was furious (enraged) at the woman, and he went away to wage war on the remainder of her descendants--[on those] who obey God's commandments and who have the testimony of Jesus Christ [and adhere to it and [a]bear witness to Him].

>>>>>>>

This will take place when the peace agreement is broken, or the middle of that last week/

Keep in mind I am not predicting,nor is any of this concrete I am just sharing how I read the scriptures, which is always ready to be edited.

love susanna
:grouphug:

Hi all
Surely some one seen the error that I wrote. You should have said something. I was just resting in bed and the thought came to me of something I wrote that just did not make sense.
here's what it was Quote from post 133 above
I wrote
""It isn't until the woman gives birth to the Messianic Kingdom . that war breaks out in heaven. We will know when this takes place because the war in heaven and the war against the remaining bride of Christ will be running parallel..(3.5 years )The Kingdom (male child ) will be taken to Jehovah's throne for protection until it can be occupied and start ruling.""

Edited
The war in heaven is over once Satan is ousted ,He lost that battle, the male child or kingdom was born,but was not occupied yet because the Kingdom heirs were still asleep and the rest had not joined them yet , to all be awakened together to join The groom when he calls them. 1 Thess 4:13-17.

So then what do we have here.!!!
We have two wars going on at the same time on earth.NOT IN HEAVEN > One will be against the woman in the wilderness that represents the church ,which will be made up of the remaining bride or the two witnesses, ( the spiritual war ) WE the brides companions will see this war with eyes of understanding ) Matt 25:31-41
the other war will also include all Christians including Christendom that are obedient to Gods word, which will be a physical war.( that the whole world will see. ).

Now this sounds better:grouphug:
>>>>>>>>>>>
Revelation 12:13-17 (New Century Version)

13 When the dragon saw he had been thrown down to the earth, he hunted for the woman who had given birth to the son. 14 But the woman was given the two wings of a great eagle so she could fly to the place prepared for her in the desert. There she would be taken care of for three and one-half years, away from the snake .15 Then the snake poured water out of its mouth like a river toward the woman so the flood would carry her away.16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that came from the mouth of the dragon.17 Then the dragon was very angry at the woman, and he went off to make war against all her other children—those who obey God's commands and who have the message Jesus taught.
>>>>>>>>
Revelation 12:13-17 (21st Century King James Version)

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the manchild.


17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and he went to make war with the remnant of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

>>>>>>>
Revelation 12:13-17 (American Standard Version)

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth, he persecuted the woman that brought forth the man child.

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

Quote from Anji
High Susanna
You say : The Kingdom (male child ) will be taken to Jehovah's throne for protection until it can be occupied and start ruling.""

Dear Susan ,very good point sis .
But how can we proof this by scripture ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dear Anji

here's my best take on the scriptures in answer to the question above

Revelation 12:5-6 (Amplified Bible)

And she brought forth a male Child, One Who is destined to shepherd (rule) all the nations with an iron staff (scepter), and her Child was caught up to God and to His throne.

And the woman [herself] fled into the desert (wilderness), where she has a retreat prepared [for her] by God, in which she is to be fed and kept safe for 1,260 days (42 months; three and one-half years).

>>>>>>

using a spirit of a sound mind the birth of the kingdom could not be occupied until Christ and his 144,000 co-rulers could occupy this kingdom or mail Child.

We still have Christ sitting next to his Father there fore the kingdom would be protected by Jehovah's throne.

Provisions were made for the woman Heavenly Jerusalem here on earth in the wilderness , by the remaining adopted sons of God still being alive here on earth , to start their earthly 3.5 (42 mos ) or 1260 days.

Where else could she go ?

the whole world is laying in the power of the wicked one,

. Where did Jesus go before he started his 3.5 mission ?

Keep in mind Jesus was the designated King of that promised Kingdom. That is what Jesus meant when he said to the Pharisees " the Kingdom of God is in your mist "

The clergy would have you believe it was in your hearts > ( not so)

Matthew 4
THEN JESUS was led (guided) by the [Holy] Spirit into the wilderness (desert) to be tempted (tested and tried) by the devil.

>>>>>>>>

The conclusion (the last 3.5 ) of this system will be much worse be cause this time Satan will have been cast out of the heavens permanently and finally the Messianic Kingdom was born.

Not only that but the Two witnesses or the adopted sons of God will also be the ambassadors for this new born kingdom directing mankind to it , . they are also guided by Holy Spirit in order to fulfill their mission, before being put to death.

Revelation 13:7
It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. ( this is the NWO)or Satan's counterfeit Kingdom on earth.

Revelation 11:7


And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit[a]© will make war on them and conquer them and kill them,

Daniel 7:21


As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them,

>>>>>>>>>>

the revealing of the sons of God takes place and they are put to death and then the first resurrection takes place

read 1Thess 4:13-17 ( a must read )

Until then the new born child ( Messianic Kingdom ) is not occupied.

Picture this thru a spiritual eye

We have the city heavenly Jerusalem which is also the mother of the Bride , the bride is also the Temple of God, but then we have the Birth of the Messianic kingdom. Now this Kingdom cannot start its rule until they all get together in the higher places,

Hope this answers your question.

love susanna
:grouphug:

Hi all
I brought in more scriptures to show that the male child or the Messianic Kingdom will be unoccupied until after Christ comes for his bride..
It is after Armageddon that Christ and those who belong to the body of Christ start the 1000 year reign.

Stephen the Martyr
Acts 7:54-56

54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
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Psalm 110:1-2 (Amplified Bible)
1THE LORD (God) says to my Lord (the Messiah), Sit at My right hand, until I make Your adversaries Your footstool.
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Matthew 26:64 (The Message)
4Jesus was curt: "You yourself said it. And that's not all. Soon you'll see it for yourself:

The Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Mighty One,
Arriving on the clouds of heaven."

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Hebrews 12:2
Looking away [from all that will distract] to Jesus, Who is the Leader and the Source of our faith [giving the first incentive for our belief] and is also its Finisher [bringing it to maturity and perfection]. He, for the joy [of obtaining the prize] that was set before Him, endured the cross, despising and ignoring the shame, and is now seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
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This is a commentary which I thought was very upbuilding
Hebrews 12:2 (The Message)

Discipline in a Long-Distance Race
1-3 Do you see what this means—all these pioneers who blazed the way, all these veterans cheering us on? It means we'd better get on with it. Strip down, start running—and never quit! No extra spiritual fat, no parasitic sins. Keep your eyes on Jesus, who both began and finished this race we're in. Study how he did it. Because he never lost sight of where he was headed—that exhilarating finish in and with God—he could put up with anything along the way: Cross, shame, whatever. And now he's there, in the place of honor, right alongside God. When you find yourselves flagging in your faith, go over that story again, item by item, that long litany of hostility he plowed through. That will shoot adrenaline into your souls!

Love susanna :grouphug: